The Gate

Hi John,

already got feedback for my mail.
They wrote they only use their own ideas, not others.

Well, there are thoughts coming up like:
They just want to be polite.
At least i got the answer quick. So i can focus on s.th. else.

I dont know what life has got in its bag for me. At the moment its all doors closed in my face: Not here. Not here either. No.

I see emotions coming up.
I just give them space and watch them.

Does it matter WHY thought says, i could be rejected? Its all belief.

This is called avoidance. :)

Spiritual bypassing?
Ok. So i ask ‘why’ until the roots are dug out.

Yes, i kind of noticed the thoughts and wanted to share them. Or did you imply more?

There's always more. :D But that's more than enough to know they are noticed, and there was enough excitement for a desire to arise to share them.

Yes, that was fun. Having fun memories.

I guess shame is the feeling to the thought ‘rejection’?
Shame can be extremely strong, when ppl know ‘me’ and the rejection is very strongly connected with ‘me-story’.
Shame is also an expectation of ‘me’ doing or being not ok. So i go and hide.
It seems to be a negative perception that prevents to focus on what is now.
And it seems to consist of negative memories i transfer in to the future.
Shame implies there could be control or choice.
You said there would be control, but not by ‘me’ obviously.
So this shame is kind of sticking to the control-belief.

These emotional stories are largely independent of the 'me' story, in that they operate anyway, despite you having seen that the 'me' you thought to be real, wasn't. In general, the insight does have an effect, but not much in the short term. Hence folk often say, 'Life is the same, but different.'

They are independent? Ok.
I guess identification will lessen.

Before you decide that others are illusions (escapist tactic #427) :) - best to focus on your own.

Ok. Maybe we can talk later about me and seperateness and others?

Why is it ubiquitous? (shame)
Bc of expectations and shoulds and beliefs which are all thoughts and we do not have control?

Long story :) it just is.

I dont mind long stories :)
No its ok.
So i take shame just as a given like sunshine and other stuff.
Or do i have to look WHY i feel shame?

How can i dig out the gold?
Is shame close to seeing, bc it is protecting 'me'.
Do i have to look when there is shame, to see what is behind?

After an insight about the nature of 'me', it gives you a new approach to handle emotional challenges such as shame etc. Before you might say, 'why me' and wallow in self-pity. But with no real 'me', that wouldn't be an option. The gold is what you can learn about yourself through the medium of this shame story. Memories are of past events, but they operate now.
This is a bit outside the scope of what we're doing, so apologies for bringing it up. :D

Dont apologize!
Hmh.
You mean, what i can learn about Anne?
Why would i want to learn about Anne? To find other hidden roots, that make me tripp?
It is hard for me to differentiate:
On one hand i should give not too much attention to thoughts, bc they try to lure me into me-story.
On the other hand you want me to analyze.

Who would be the puppet master?
Habit?

We make one up, call it 'causes and conditions' - for example. :)

Ahhh, I dont get it.
Anne has no control.
But there is control (lifting hand).
Isnt that the same like, being all conditions in the place to make that happen?
In other words ‘lots of causes and conditions’?

Please bear with me :)
Anne

Hi Anne,

Spiritual bypassing?
Ok. So i ask ‘why’ until the roots are dug out.

We can use it as a medium to deepen your insight, we'll place the focus there, rather than resolving an emotional narrative.

Whatever is the recurrent emotional pattern coming up - say shame - you can inquire into the one to whom the narrative is applying. Who is ashamed? 'Anne'? Can a story feel? Never mind feel ashamed? Makes no sense.

Go right into this. Imagine a story feeling ashamed. Nonsense, isn't it. Then, see any shame you feel. Same deal.

This is not about avoidance, or disregarding, but about seeing shame as narrative, just as 'Anne' is narrative - seeing things as they are. Rather than acting as if you are 'Anne', and so shame is your shame.

With shame as a narrative applying to a character that you are not - what's that like?
What's it like to be untouchable by shame?

Ok. Maybe we can talk later about me and seperateness and others?

Best to focus on you, the rest falls into place.

I dont mind long stories :)
No its ok.
So i take shame just as a given like sunshine and other stuff.
Or do i have to look WHY i feel shame?

See above about shame as a narrative applying to someone you are not.

Dont apologize!
Hmh.
You mean, what i can learn about Anne?
Why would i want to learn about Anne? To find other hidden roots, that make me tripp?
It is hard for me to differentiate:
On one hand i should give not too much attention to thoughts, bc they try to lure me into me-story.
On the other hand you want me to analyze.

Life is paradoxical.

Thoughts don't lure, you lure yourself.
Not so much analyse, but see how you see things.
These are patterns which, unless you see them, 'pull your strings' from behind the scenes.
Another puppet-master.

Anne has no control.

It's not that 'Anne has no control', but that 'Anne' is a story, so control is a moot point.
*moot point meaning, it's irrelevant.

But there is control (lifting hand).
Isnt that the same like, being all conditions in the place to make that happen?
In other words ‘lots of causes and conditions’?

To think that causes and conditions are raising your arm is to apply a fiction to an action. It's un-necessary. Practically, you move your arm or not. That's is all any of us need to know. Very zen.

When a new idea pops up are there any clear causes and conditions? You can make a philosophical case, but why bother when the kettle's on and there's biscuits to be eaten. :D

Warm wishes,
John

Ok. So i ask ‘why’ until the roots are dug out.

We can use it as a medium to deepen your insight, we'll place the focus there, rather than resolving an emotional narrative.

Whatever is the recurrent emotional pattern coming up - say shame - you can inquire into the one to whom the narrative is applying. Who is ashamed? 'Anne'? Can a story feel? Never mind feel ashamed? Makes no sense.

Go right into this. Imagine a story feeling ashamed. Nonsense, isn't it. Then, see any shame you feel. Same deal.

This is not about avoidance, or disregarding, but about seeing shame as narrative, just as 'Anne' is narrative - seeing things as they are. Rather than acting as if you are 'Anne', and so shame is your shame.

With shame as a narrative applying to a character that you are not - what's that like?
What's it like to be untouchable by shame?

Thanks for claryfying. Now i get, what i can do.

When playing with a pinball machine as a child, somebody i very admired said to me: “She always wants to win.”
I have these contradicting thoughts:
If i win, somebodyelse looses and will be sad.
I want to win, but if feel bad if i do. I’d rather loose and be sad, than somebody else ‘d be sad.
And wanting to win is kind of obsessive.
When i got a promotion instead of an older colleague, i felt bad.


Today i realized, that the person, who said that to me, just expressed memories and thoughts and applied them to Anne. But it had actually nothing to do with me.
That loosened the pain i was feeling today.

With shame as a narrative applying to a character that you are not - what's that like?
What's it like to be untouchable by shame?

The above practice i can apply, when being alone.

I am still not satisfied:
I can not imagine being not touched by shame.
For example: me driving in the bus, maybe being all sloppy and smelly and people look disgusted.
In this case it d be hard to not apply this shame to Anne or body.
Do i in case like this just focus on direct experience instead of interpreting other peoples faces?

Life is paradoxical.

Yes, when i read it, i remembered. :)
Grrr. Mind likes plausibility.

Thoughts don't lure, you lure yourself.
Not so much analyse, but see how you see things.
These are patterns which, unless you see them, 'pull your strings' from behind the scenes.
Another puppet-master.

Hmhm.

It's not that 'Anne has no control', but that 'Anne' is a story, so control is a moot point.
*moot point meaning, it's irrelevant.

To think that causes and conditions are raising your arm is to apply a fiction to an action. It's un-necessary. Practically, you move your arm or not. That's is all any of us need to know. Very zen.

I see that.

Today i am quite exhausted. Several things did not work out like Anne expected. There where thoughts of ‘giving up’, ‘whats the point?’ and ‘is this a sign, not to proceed?’

And it seems all quite complicated with ‘creative’ thoughts and ‘critical’ thoughts and thoughts to watch and thoughts to ignore.

Maybe i’ll see clearer tomorrow.
A precise how-to :)) d be welcome.

I bought some lavender and some flowerseeds for the little area around my tent. Looking forward to see them grow.

I’ll meditate a bit about the shame-watching, you explained at the top.
And i write back tomorrow.

Hi Anne,

Thanks for your response. Just a few pointers to take the pressure off. :)

It's really good to see if there's some underlying frame shaping our approach.

Like when you mention not imagining ever to feel shame, and give some example of where that might happen. We could call this a perfection frame, absolutist. This is not a useful frame to have, because it is unreachable, and is a regular source of tension.

So, instead, a better frame is learning. Just learning about yourself. That's it. No goal, no perfection. If you were an island, this frame is the adventure of discovery and learning on the island.

With respect to shame, the perfection frame asks: Have I eradicated shame? Fixed it? :)
The learning frame asks: what did I learn about shame?

Best wishes,
John

Hi John,

thank you for adressing that.

You know, when you wrote

What's it like to be untouchable by shame?

I kind of interpreted it like this:
There still d be the feeling, but i wouldnt be bothered by it. Or something.

I understand that there is no perfection, but evolving. Like you said before.

This is what i wrote down yesterday evening:


Actually there is no real shame.

This is what made me understand...

Then, see any shame you feel.

There is a feeling of pressure in the breast. Maybe flushing. Impulse of wanting to hide.
This is direct experiencing and habit.
But all this together is labeled as shame.

Same as thoughts, memories, name, body is labeled as Anne.

Is that what you mean by shame being a narrative?

With shame as a narrative..

What i also realized yesterday while noticing sad thoughts and emotions was, that even if i d get what i want, i d not be happy forever.
But in this moment i can be here and feel it and be ok with it.

Greetings from Anne

Hi Anne,

Hi John,

thank you for adressing that.

You know, when you wrote

What's it like to be untouchable by shame?

I kind of interpreted it like this:
There still d be the feeling, but i wouldnt be bothered by it. Or something.

I understand that there is no perfection, but evolving. Like you said before.

This is what i wrote down yesterday evening:


Actually there is no real shame.

This is what made me understand...

Then, see any shame you feel.

There is a feeling of pressure in the breast. Maybe flushing. Impulse of wanting to hide.
This is direct experiencing and habit.
But all this together is labeled as shame.

Same as thoughts, memories, name, body is labeled as Anne.

Is that what you mean by shame being a narrative?

Yes. It's interesting because shame (for many) is persistent and somewhat deflating, the natural instinct is eradication - just get rid of it, take a pill :) do some clever therapy, get awakened in double-quick time, then there'll be no me to be ashamed. Job done. So escapism is the frame, and fixing it the means.

The notion of "it's just a belief" is typical. But if we want to get some gold, then we have an opportunity to learn, to discover what the shame is about for me. Shame persists because it is un-resolved, we never learn, find the value in knowledge - when we do, it is resolved, we have taken an experience and made it fruitful, and we move on, having grown, evolved.

The shame narrative, the story of shame for me, and its attendant emotional feelings, can be cast off, or mined for value.

This is quite apart from the 'self' inquiry. Fact is, whether 'Anne' or not-'Anne', you are a human being with experiences, conclusions and beliefs that shape your world 'view'. And rather than deem them true (because that's how they feel), we can unpick the narrative to see how we came up with it in the first place, and yes, why. :) Now this why, is not seeking after what's true, but your 'truth', what was the case for you.

What i also realized yesterday while noticing sad thoughts and emotions was, that even if i d get what i want, i d not be happy forever.
But in this moment i can be here and feel it and be ok with it.

That's a great insight. To see that we're trying to solve all our 'problems' away, when these 'problems' are precisely the things from which we can learn and grow.

Warm wishes,
John

Hi John,

ah, that is the detour we are taking:
exploring shame

I am very glad about that detour bc shame is a big one for me (as you can imagine).

The notion of "it's just a belief" is typical. But if we want to get some gold, then we have an opportunity to learn, to discover what the shame is about for me. Shame persists because it is un-resolved, we never learn, find the value in knowledge - when we do, it is resolved, we have taken an experience and made it fruitful, and we move on, having grown, evolved.

The shame narrative, the story of shame for me, and its attendant emotional feelings, can be cast off, or mined for value.

This is quite apart from the 'self' inquiry. Fact is, whether 'Anne' or not-'Anne', you are a human being with experiences, conclusions and beliefs that shape your world 'view'. And rather than deem them true (because that's how they feel), we can unpick the narrative to see how we came up with it in the first place, and yes, why. :) Now this why, is not seeking after what's true, but your 'truth', what was the case for you.

Cool, i am on board with that.

So i watch shame or other emotions likHi John,

ah, that is the detour we are taking about:
exploring shame

I am very glad about that detour bc shame is a big one for me (as you can imagine).

The notion of "it's just a belief" is typical. But if we want to get some gold, then we have an opportunity to learn, to discover what the shame is about for me. Shame persists because it is un-resolved, we never learn, find the value in knowledge - when we do, it is resolved, we have taken an experience and made it fruitful, and we move on, having grown, evolved.

The shame narrative, the story of shame for me, and its attendant emotional feelings, can be cast off, or mined for value.

This is quite apart from the 'self' inquiry. Fact is, whether 'Anne' or not-'Anne', you are a human being with experiences, conclusions and beliefs that shape your world 'view'. And rather than deem them true (because that's how they feel), we can unpick the narrative to see how we came up with it in the first place, and yes, why. :) Now this why, is not seeking after what's true, but your 'truth', what was the case for you.

Cool, i am on board with that.

So i watch shame or other emotions being triggerd by memories and perceptions and circumstances etc.
And if i look at it and find out how this kind of mechanism ‘works’, shame might be resolved.

Greetings, Anne
:))

Upps :)))

And thank you for explaining in such great detail!!

Hi Anne,

Cool, i am on board with that.

Cool beans. :)

So i watch shame or other emotions being triggered by memories and perceptions and circumstances etc.
And if i look at it and find out how this kind of mechanism ‘works’, shame might be resolved.

Yes, with the intent/frame of wanting to learn, when some shame shows up we go into discovery mode. :)

Oh, what's happening, what am I feeling, why am I feeling this way?

Another way to think about why is, How am I seeing this such that I feel this way?

(This is a really useful question in lots of situations, by the way.)

So, rather than going: oh, I'm feeling shame, this is bad, must fix it, how to fix it? :)

We go: oh, I'm feeling shame, this is good, what can I discover this time?

The key will lie in how you are seeing yourself, of yourself with respect to the circumstances.

e.g. email comes back: no thanks. That is 'seen' as rejection, which it isn't, it's no thanks. We might then feel shame because of being 'rejected'. But we made up that 'rejection'. So then we might go: hmmm, how come I see this no thanks in terms of 'rejection'? Could it be that I expect rejection? How come? Am I just inherently rejectable? :) How do I see myself being ruthlessly honest?

When you get to something which you are willing to admit to. :) - for example, I've been seeing myself as never being good enough for years, and have took that on as true. Oh shit. And to admit that is quite a gulp sometimes. But we take it on the chin, because we have learned something really valuable about our view.

Then we might challenge it to its core. Is that true? Am I rejectable? And you face it directly. If you see that no, it's not true, then again you have shaken an old perception which now has no legs on which to stand.

When an old perception is seen truly, even though it hurts, you will feel good, because its true that you had been seeing yourself that way, but having assessed where you are now, you can now say, it is not true of you!

That's an example...

Warm wishes,
John

Hi John,

welcome to the Discovery-channel!!

Today: enjoy watching an episode about an interesting shy foreign animal


Shame lives in a little dark cave somewhere on the mountain of Self.
When Shame is woken up, it can stirr up a lot of energy and even crying like a sudden thunderstorm.
Afterwards it wants to hide. Rarely it attacks in this case, only if it is very stressed or feels threatened. (But there are other shame-animals who belong to other people. These animals for example can shout very loud, if they are frightened.)
Shame can be stirred up by thought or when people talk to it or when being in an unfamiliar surrounding or situation.
Shame learned a lot of rules and carries them everywhere on its back in a very big book. The title of the very big book is: ‘Shoulds and should nots’. Shame learned the rules from family and culture and wrote them carefully down bc they are important for surviving in a group.
There are rules about clothes and language and behaving and traffic and carreer and very special family-and-friend-rules. There seem to be rules about everything! A lot of them are hidden like traps.
Shame carefully tries to obey rules, bc it wants family and people to like it.
But rules are very strict and often contradictory and can even concern things that are given and can not be changed (body, beauty, intelligence).
Shame is in a constant state of nervousness being around people. Often it fears that it broke a rule and punishment will follow.
In the evening it lies in bed and recollects the day. When not being able to obey the rules, it thinks how it could explain what happend, if somebody would accuse Shame of doing something wrong.
Punishment for breaking a rule could be, being laughed about or being excluded or being treated like (or called) stupid or lazy or weak or doing it on purpose.
When sleeping, Shame dreams about being special and successful and following all the rules so people will admire it. But Shame will not forgive ppl. who treated it badly!
Shame is very vigilant and reads all the books and papers to learn every rule and what to do to follow them.
It tries very hard but every day it brakes some rules. Sometimes Shame feels like being stuck in a cruel game that can never be won.
When exhausted from all this, Shame thinks: “Why not stay in my cave? It might be small and dark, but it is cosy and nobody comes in to disturb me.”
Shame stays in its cave, watches a romantic comedy and eats from the stored couriosity and lightness. It does not realize, that it will stay in the cave longer and longer, if these precious goods are reduced more and more.
Over the time Shames eyes adjust to the darkness. Shame starts perceiveing the light and colours and noise and people outside as threatening and retrieves quickly back into the cave after peeking out.
Nibbeling up the last bits of couriosity and lightness, it falls asleep and dreams about wonderful adventures and finding a thing called freedom.
Shame wonders if freedom exists somewhere out there or if it is just a fairy tale.
…


Shame is part of a huge mechanism: self.
When triggert there are typical bodyly feelings followed by usually one of several habits.
There are a set of rules saved in the mind. The problem is, these rules are contradicting each other and s.times hard to follow. And in new situations or with new people, there could be new rules.
There is a strong drive to avoid feeling shame bc it is perceived as negative.
Shame triggers thoughts of unworthyness.
When shame is experienced very often (perceived so from memory), a destructive belief about self will be formed.
.. ..

I pictured Anne standing beside me an i watched shame unfold.
The problem with this shame-thing is, that it will keep existing until the organism reaches the goal (following every rule). Bc this is not possible (contradicting and new rules), shame will stay in place.
Rules are rarely challenged.
Bc of the emotion/bodyly sensations, ppl have thoughts that say, they are wrong or did something wrong

Sunny greetings
Anne

Shame is so interesting! There’s more and more to discover!

Can’t stop. :)

When Shame sees somebody not following the rules it thinks: “How dare he not follow the rules! I invested so much time and energy and he goes lightly about his day and carries just a small crumpled brochure of ‘shoulds and should nots’. But people treat him kindly! Why? Maybe because he is attractive? Or has important friends? That is unfair! I am a much better rule-follower than him.”
Fairness is very important for Shame. There seem to be special people who do not have to follow all rules or make their own rules or even make rules for other ppl. But Shame was never able to discover how to become such a special person.

When Shame feels angry he checks if people follow rules. If it spots somebody weaker, not following a rule, Shame opens the very big book of rules and shows the other, which rule he broke. After that Shame feels a bit better - until it remembers the rule: not to make other ppl feel ashamed, bc that is a sign of weakness.

There are places for exchanging and comparing and debating rules. They are called pubs.
At business networking events the newest hottest rules are shared. When Shame hastily scribbles down these rules in its very big book, it is very excited. “Now i am ahead of others and i will thrive in business.”
When its career does not work out like expected, Shame suspects that it did not write down the new rules properly.

With the years Shame becomes very unflexible. The very big book is now huge and heavy and it takes a long time to check for valid rules. Shame prefers to stay in its small area where it knows most of the rules without having to look them up.

Am excited to share in discovering The Very Big Book of Shame.

What does Shame think about itself?

/John

Am excited to share in discovering The Very Big Book of Shame.

:))
Well guess how excited i were. The more i digged the bigger it got.

What does Shame think about itself?

That is a very very good question.
I am not sure how you mean it.

Fiction: The story has a beginning (before Shame got its name). And it is not finished yet. Maybe it finds itself without the very big book one day and...
I plan on writing this down too.

LU way- answer: thoughts and fictions can not think. They just show up.

But bc i wrote about Shame like being a little creature i will think about what Shame thinks about itself and write back later.... lets see what will show up :))

Hi Anne,

Am excited to share in discovering The Very Big Book of Shame.

:))
Well guess how excited i were. The more i digged the bigger it got.

What does Shame think about itself?

That is a very very good question.
I am not sure how you mean it.

Fiction: The story has a beginning (before Shame got its name). And it is not finished yet. Maybe it finds itself without the very big book one day and...
I plan on writing this down too.

LU way- answer: thoughts and fictions can not think. They just show up.

But bc i wrote about Shame like being a little creature i will think about what Shame thinks about itself and write back later.... lets see what will show up :))

Excellent.

John

This came up.. theres probably more

What does Shame think about itself?

I am important! If i would not exist, s.th. very bad would happen. Something so huge and so bad, that it doesnt even fit into my mind.
Without me, all the rules in the very big book would be meaningless. There would be chaos! Maybe even the mountain of self would crash down.