The Gate

Kay,

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No. The body is not known, it is a thought.

Does the body have a weight or volume?

No. The body is not known, so there's no weight or volume. A thought doesn't have weight or volume.

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

The body does not exist outside of thought, therefore, there is no shape or form.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

No. There is no body or clothing outside of thought, so there's no boundary.

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

No. The chair and body aren't known, so there's no boundary. Body and chair are just thoughts. Thoughts don't have boundaries.

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?

No. Inside and outside aren't known, they only exist as thoughts.

If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

Outside would be a thought that is thought to be relative to another thought that is inside.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

Body actually refers to the thought of the physical structure that contains thoughts of skin, organs, bones.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

There is no actual experience of the body. There are thoughts of the body, however, the body doesn't actually experience anything.

Thanks,
Todd

Hey Todd,

Lovely looking.

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No. The body is not known, it is a thought.

Yes! Nice :)

Does the body have a weight or volume?

No. The body is not known, so there's no weight or volume. A thought doesn't have weight or volume.

Haha…true that…”a thought doesn’t have weight or volume”!

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

Body actually refers to the thought of the physical structure that contains thoughts of skin, organs, bones.

So the label/word ‘body’ points to thought.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

There is no actual experience of the body. There are thoughts of the body, however, the body doesn't actually experience anything

Yes, there are thoughts about a body, but there is no AE of the body….so the AE of the body is thought.

Let’s move onto time.

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time or an event that is moving forward on this linear time, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Any actual experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

With love, Kay

Kay,

But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?

No. The only experience is that of right now. Any ideas about the experience of now in the future or past version of 'now' are only thoughts.

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

No. The idea of a moment is a thought and not the experience of now. Any thoughts of one moment giving way to another moment is a mental thought construct.

Any actual experience of one event following another?

No. The only actual experience is the current event, the 'now'. Placing an event before or after another is a thought.

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

The present moment never moves, it is always there.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

No. The present moment is static, it has no beginning or end. At least not a beginning or end that can be determined. Anything before or after the present moment wouldn't be able to be determined because there would be no experience to say 'this point is before or after all experience'.

How long does the ‘now’ last?

The 'now' will last as long as there's experience of the 'now'.

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

There's no start or end that can be determined of 'now'. There would be no experience before of after the 'now' to determine a start or end.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

The 'now' does not become the 'past'. The 'past' is a thought.

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

There are only thoughts about time. Only the 'now' can actually be experienced. Anything that is not 'now' can only be a thought.

Thanks,
Todd

Hey Todd,

Really nice reading your responses, the are so clear. There is only one more exercise (yes, it is coming to an end LOL) I would like to give just so that we have covered all bases and that there is nowhere where the idea of a separate self can be 'hiding', so to speak, and that is about memory.

Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened.
That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

What is memory exactly? – please don’t go to thought explanation, but just let a memory be there, and look at it…

What is the memory ‘made of’?
WHEN does the memory appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.
What is the future thought ‘made of’?

WHEN does the future thought appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.
What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?
If there is difference, how that difference is known exactly?

Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say… but what actually is.

With love, Kay

Kay,

What is the memory ‘made of’?

Memories are made of thoughts of actual experiences of the senses.

WHEN does the memory appear?

The memory appears right now.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

There is no difference.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

It is not known. There is another thought that says, the 'memory' thought happened in the past. The only time context of the 'memory' thought is that arising from a thought that says, 'that thought was from an event that happened in 2006'.

Then, look at a thought about the future. What is the future thought ‘made of’?

A future memory thought is just another thought of actual sense experiences. It is made of exactly the same content of a 'memory' thought. There is another thought that says the future memory thought is something that has not happened yet.

WHEN does the future thought appear?

The future thought appears right now.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

There is no difference. Both general thoughts and future thoughts happen right now about actual sense experiences.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

It is not known. There is a another thought that labels the 'future' thought as something that will happen.

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.
What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

There is no difference. The idea that a thought has a time reference point is provided by another thought. The thought about the past and a thought about the future have the same content.

If there is difference, how that difference is known exactly?

The thoughts themselves do not have a difference.

Thanks,
Todd

Hey Todd,

Thank you for your responses! I have no more questions to ask. Unless you have questions, please let me know, otherwise here are the final questions. Would you please answer them with some detail and give examples where asked.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
b) What makes things happen? How does it work?
c) What are you responsible for?
d) Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

With love, Kay

Hello Todd....are you having difficulties answering the questions or is there something else going on?

Kay
xx

Things have been unexpectedly busy, every day I expect to answer the questions and then I never have time. I plan on answering very soon.

Thanks for your patience.

With love,
Todd

Kay,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

No, there's never been a separate self. As far as an idea of 'self', 'me', or 'I' as a separate entity is concerned, these things only exist as thoughts. It can't be any other way. Outside of direct sensory experience there is only thoughts.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

While I can't recall the exact point of inception regarding the illusion, it most likely was when I understood what my name was. The idea that I was 'Todd' provided the initial structure to the idea of a separate self. Words such as 'you' and 'me' were then introduced, further reinforcing the idea of a separate self. Later on the idea of titled property added to the idea of a separate self because a name is on a piece of paper stating that the person whose name is on the title owns the property.

3) How does it feel to see this?

It feels really good, sort of like walking out of a prison that had no locks or guards. Emotions and ideas that arise are much more transitory than before. There's less investment in the idea of 'this is the way things are'.

What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?

The difference is that I've stopped supporting the idea that I exist as a separate entity. I also understand more of what a thought is versus direct sensory experience.

Please report from the past few days.

Things are good. Nothing out of the ordinary to report.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

It seems that we were 'lied' to from the start, especially in regards to the whole naming mechanism. I always thought it was strange to have a name. Even as a kid I was thinking that I'm not a 'Todd', what the heck is a 'Todd'? At some level I was going along for the ride but at another level I knew that there was a bogus aspect to the way folks thought about themselves relative to others. What pushed me over was not wanting to invest any more energy in supporting a false framework.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.

All of these things are ideas that are thought of as manifestations of the self. We label decisions, intentions, free will, choice, and control as something that an 'I' does or has. Since there is no 'I', all the trappings of 'I' don't exist outside of thoughts that they exist.

b) What makes things happen?

Things just happen. We might attribute ideas of decision, intention, free will, choice and control as the reason things happen, however, this idea that there is some sort of decision making process is just a thought.

How does it work?

This is unknown. I'm thinking the answer to this question is the answer to many things.

c) What are you responsible for?

I'm not responsible for anything. This isn't meant in a callous way, it's just that we can't truly be responsible for things we don't have control over and that includes everything since the idea of control is just an idea. However, if I had a small child to feed, a plant to water, a pet to attend to, a job to work, I'm still going to do these things. I'm not going to throw my hands up in the air and say, 'screw everything, I'm not responsible.' Yet in the same vein, I know that I'm doing these things that are considered responsibilities not out of free will, I'm just doing them and labeling them as responsibilities that I'm attending to.

d) Give examples from experience.

I can't give examples of decision, intention, free will, choice, control, or responsibilities at this point. They don't exist.

6) Anything to add?

Thank you very very much! I was born in NSW Australia in the early 70's. My parents were US citizens teaching there for three years and moved back to the US when I was 8 months old. I've never been back and found it interesting that someone from Australia helped me with this seeing!

Love,
Todd

Hello Todd,

Loved reading your responses to the final questions! Perhaps it's time to come visit 'home'! ;)

To make sure that I have covered everything with you and that my pointing is clear, I will ask other guides to have a look at your thread. There may or may not be further questions for you. Thank you for being diligent in looking and for taking on board the 'tough love' when I needed to push you that extra bit. I will be back in contact with you within the next couple of day.

With love, Kay

Hey Todd,

The guides didn't take as long as I thought to look at your thread!

Congratulations, and welcome to LU - the Gateless Gate. There are no further questions for you. It has been a pleasure to walk with you and point the way.

Keep an eye out for an email notification from the forum about a PM (private message) inviting you to join our Aftercare group on Facebook. The PM also details other resources available to you. Your name will change from green to blue, which indicates that you have had the realisation of there being no separate self.

You can contact me at any time if you have any questions etc, via the forums PM system, or via Facebook if you decide to join our groups there.

With love, Kay

Kay,

Thank you so much for guiding me through this. Going through the process is much different than reading the transcripts and trying to get it vicariously through another's experience.

Love,
Todd

Hey Todd,

Thank you so much for guiding me through this. Going through the process is much different than reading the transcripts and trying to get it vicariously through another's experience.

My pleasure...and yes, actually looking and just reading transcripts are too different things LOL.

You have been sent a message via the forums PM. Best wishes to you.

With love, Kay