Self-brexiting

[forgetmenot]

Hey Brexit...lovely responses! I have no further questions to post for you with regards to time itself, but let's have a look at 'memory', which seems to point to time.

Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened. That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

What is memory exactly? – please don’t go to thought explanation, but just let a memory be there, and look at it…

What is the memory ‘made of’?
WHEN does the memory appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.
What is the future thought ‘made of’?

WHEN does the future thought appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.
What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?
If there is difference, how that difference is known exactly?

Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say… but what actually is.

Love, Kay
xx

[brexit]

Hi Kay,

What is the memory ‘made of’?

The Label/word ‘memory’ is the actual experience of ‘thought’. It is not the AE of memory. We can say it is ‘made of’ content of thought.

WHEN does the memory appear?

The memory seems to appear while the process of thinking happens.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

Thought has no attributes and therefore there is no difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Because a thought says so.

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.
What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

The thoughts about past and future both refer to thoughts. There is no exact difference between them.

If there is difference, how that difference is known exactly?

If there is difference, only thought would say so.

Peace, Brexit

[forgetmenot]

Hi B,

Lovely LOOKING re ‘memory’!

The memory seems to appear while the process of thinking happens.

So, the ‘memory’ appears now, in the ‘present moment’, yes?


You’ve done some great LOOKING throughout this exploration, B….thank-you for being so diligent in looking and answering questions to date. I just want to be thorough and make sure that nothing important has been missed. Here are some questions to help determine if there are any areas that may still need further exploring. Just simple and quick answers will do, you don't need to take time over them. Please answer what's true for you right now, rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer.

Has it been clearly seen that there is no separate individual (“I/me”), and never has been?
Has it been clearly seen that there has never been a separate individual that could control or own life or anything?
Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?
Is there a separate individual/entity of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?
Is there a thinker of thought?
Has there ever been a separate self doing anything?
Is there a self in the body somewhere? Does it have a certain location, or feelings associated with it, or any other attributes?
Is there a self that is inside the body, perceiving a world that is outside?
Do you notice a difference now, to when you first started this exploration, and if so what are those differences?
Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?

Love, Kay
xx

[brexit]

Hi Kay,

Has it been clearly seen that there is no separate individual (“I/me”), and never has been?

It is now clearly seen that the separate individual (“I/me”) is a just a story that never exists and never has been.

Has it been clearly seen that there has never been a separate individual that could control or own life or anything?

The story of a separate individual couldn’t control or own life or anything. This is now clearly seen.

Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?

If a chooser or decider of any kind does exist, it could choose to not suffer ever and to decide to always be happier. Why do suffering and unhappiness always exist it if this was the case.

Is there a separate individual/entity of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?

Things just happen, there is no separate individual/entity of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all.

Is there a thinker of thought?

No, there is no thinker of thought. Thoughts just appear from nowhere and through no one.

Has there ever been a separate self doing anything?

Thoughts still tell us that a doer is behind the doing, but this are just stories. There has never been a separate self doing anything.

Is there a self in the body somewhere? Does it have a certain location, or feelings associated with it, or any other attributes?

The label/word ‘body’ refers to thoughts. It is the AE of thought. How could a self be found in thought? How could a thought feels anything or has any attributes?

Is there a self that is inside the body, perceiving a world that is outside?

The label/word ‘body’ refers to thought. It is the AE of thought. There is no outside or inside of a thought. The self is a story and cannot perceive anything.

Do you notice a difference now, to when you first started this exploration, and if so what are those differences?

I started this exploration with the question of what a mist the guides are telling us here, i.e That the Self is an illusion and that it does never exists. Now this is an experienced thing. It is now clearly seen, that the idea of a chooser or a decider or a doer is just fantasy. That makes the life flow with almost less resistance.

Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?

[/quote]
A feeling of a self in the body appear again and again. The idea of the self making day by day decisions and controlling the life appears again and again. The idea of a me and the others appears again and again. The doubt of all of this appears again and again. The question though those ideas will disappear pops up. Why do questions appear again? To whom or what are these questions addressed?

Peace, Brexit

[forgetmenot]

Hey Brexit,

Lovely responses...thank you!

A feeling of a self in the body appear again and again. The idea of the self making day by day decisions and controlling the life appears again and again. The idea of a me and the others appears again and again. The doubt of all of this appears again and again.

Yes, the 'feeling" (ie thought/idea) of a self in the body making day to day decisions/choices etc will continue to appear. They are thoughts that have always appeared. There has never been a separate self and yet those thoughts have always appeared....so why would those thoughts disappear because the idea of the illusory self has been seen through?

Thought doesn't stop telling you that it's your car, your job, your body, your craving, your preference, your pain, your happiness, your this and your that. Why would thought stop saying something just because it's seen what thoughts are.
It's never been any other way. So it is only an expectation that thought will suddenly change its tune.

The question though those ideas will disappear pops up. Why do questions appear again? To whom or what are these questions addressed?

What is the AE of a 'question'? A question is just a different title for a thought, just like the word 'memory' and 'belief'! Can you find anyone/anything to whom thoughts are being addressed to?

Love, Kay
xx

[brexit]

Hi Kay,

What is the AE of a 'question'? A question is just a different title for a thought, just like the word 'memory' and 'belief'! Can you find anyone/anything to whom thoughts are being addressed to?

A question refers to thought. It is the AE of ‘thought’.
Although the questions are addressed to no-one/no-thing, they produce so much suffering and pain. The question what this has for a meaning appears again in spite of that knowing. That’s the nature of thoughts and questions.

Peace, Brexit

[forgetmenot]

Hi Brexit,

A question refers to thought. It is the AE of ‘thought’.
Although the questions are addressed to no-one/no-thing, they produce so much suffering and pain. The question what this has for a meaning appears again in spite of that knowing. That’s the nature of thoughts and questions.

Here is an expectation that suffering and pain should not appear once the separate self has been seen through.

Thoughts may appearing saying: "But I still identify with thought! I want to STOP identifying with thought; it causes me pain and suffering!" But that thought is just another thought bubble, and is seen in utter clarity. Even the idea that something is identifying with thought is just an idea. There is NOTHING here that can identify with thought. Only thought says that someone/something is identifying as anything.

Does the word (= thought) suffering contain any actual suffering?
Does the word 'suffering' have any meaning at all?


So the idea of suffering and pain will still appear…but what exactly is it that is suffering? Do thoughts produce "suffering and pain" or are there thoughts ABOUT suffering and pain? Aren't all thoughts - no matter what they say - simply arising in/as experience/awareness? And you say…”but the suffering and pain feels real” and that is just another thought bubble and is seen in utter clarity.

The labels ‘suffering/pain’ is the AE of thought and not the AE of suffering/pain
The thoughts about ‘suffering/pain’ is the AE of thought and not the AE of suffering/pain
The sensation/feelings labelled as ‘suffering/pain’ are the AE of sensation and not the AE of suffering/pain
The image labelled ‘body/me’ is the AE of colour and not the AE of suffering/pain.

So what exactly is it that is suffering or in pain?

Love, Kay
xx

[brexit]

Hi Kay,

Does the word (= thought) suffering contain any actual suffering?
Does the word 'suffering' have any meaning at all?

Suffering seems appearing, when there is identification with the body or a me. The word suffering doesn’t contain any actual suffering.
The word ‘suffering’ is an interpretation of a raw experience of a sensation. It is not the sensation experienced. An interpretation is the content of thoughts. It is not the actual experience of thought, but just thoughts ABOUT thought. The word ‘suffering’ have no meaning at all.

So what exactly is it that is suffering or in pain?

There is nobody and nothing that is suffering or in pain, but just Thoughts ABOUT suffering and pain.

Peace, Brexit

[forgetmenot]

Hey Brexit,

Does the word (= thought) suffering contain any actual suffering?
Does the word 'suffering' have any meaning at all?

Suffering seems appearing, when there is identification with the body or a me. The word suffering doesn’t contain any actual suffering. The word ‘suffering’ is an interpretation of a raw experience of a sensation. It is not the sensation experienced. An interpretation is the content of thoughts. It is not the actual experience of thought, but just thoughts ABOUT thought. The word ‘suffering’ have no meaning at all.

So the story about suffering and all that entails will still appear, but if you were actually suffering, when the suffering left, you would also leave with it and be non existent! Does your existent hinge on whether or not suffering or any appearance appears or not? Are you never not and are you not always aware of what appears?

Love, Kay
xx

[brexit]

Hi Kay,

So the story about suffering and all that entails will still appear, but if you were actually suffering, when the suffering left, you would also leave with it and be non existent! Does your existent hinge on whether or not suffering or any appearance appears or not? Are you never not and are you not always aware of what appears?

Sorry, I could not quite understand the last sentences.
Could you please explain, who or what could be existent or non existent?
Who or what is never not and is not always aware of what appears?

Peace, Brexit

[forgetmenot]

Hello Brexit,

So the story about suffering and all that entails will still appear, but if you were actually suffering, when the suffering left, you would also leave with it and be non existent! Does your existent hinge on whether or not suffering or any appearance appears or not? Are you never not and are you not always aware of what appears?

Sorry, I could not quite understand the last sentences.
Could you please explain, who or what could be existent or non existent?
Who or what is never not and is not always aware of what appears?

Do ‘you’ not exist? If ‘you’ didn't exist, then how could you know of experience/THIS? Notice how 'things' have to be known by ‘you’ in order to exist. I am not talking about the illusory separate self labelled Brexit, but that which is ‘aware/knowing’ of these colours labelled ‘written words’. That which is ‘aware/knowing’ of all appearances, including the appearance of the story of there being a separate self that suffers and what that entails - but does not suffer in any way! If it is clear that nothing is separated from you, because you can’t find any border between you and what is here, than you are not an individual.

Love, Kay
xx

[brexit]

Hi Kay,

Do ‘you’ not exist? If ‘you’ didn't exist, then how could you know of experience/THIS? Notice how 'things' have to be known by ‘you’ in order to exist. I am not talking about the illusory separate self labelled Brexit, but that which is ‘aware/knowing’ of these colours labelled ‘written words’. That which is ‘aware/knowing’ of all appearances, including the appearance of the story of there being a separate self that suffers and what that entails - but does not suffer in any way! If it is clear that nothing is separated from you, because you can’t find any border between you and what is here, than you are not an individual.

All there is is the raw experience of smell, taste, sound sensation, colour and thought. Anything else is a story. Who or what does exist to be aware/knowing anything? Beside the illusory separate self is there anything else aware/knowing any appearances?
Could you please explain in details that which is aware/knowing the experienced?

Peace, Brexit

[forgetmenot]

Hi Brexit,

All there is is the raw experience of smell, taste, sound sensation, colour and thought. Anything else is a story. Who or what does exist to be aware/knowing anything? Beside the illusory separate self is there anything else aware/knowing any appearances? Could you please explain in details that which is aware/knowing the experienced?

Actual experience is a pointer that points to what is happening now and not what is imagined ie the content of thought. So actual experience helps strip back to bare bones what actually IS, as opposed to what thought says is. Going back to the exercise where you watched a game of soccer, it seems as though a game of soccer is happening, but when you strip it back to actual experience, what IS...is colour, sound and thoughts about the colour and sound which is the thought story called 'soccer'. So soccer SEEMS to be appearing, however, what actually IS...is THIS/experience/awareness/WHAT IS appearing as coloursoundthoughtsoccer.

This exploration is about seeing through the belief of there being a separate self, so don't get hung up on trying to understand what I wrote above. Any further exploration is for a different forum which can take place once this thread has been finalised and that exploration is also about LOOKING and realising for yourself what THIS/experience/awareness/WHAT IS is. So I would like to give you the final questions, so we can wrap up this thread and if you want, we can continue on with the above discussion after.

So, could you answer the following questions fully with some detail please as these questions clarify that you have actually seen through the concept of there being an actual separate self.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
b) What makes things happen? How does it work?
c) What are you responsible for?
d) Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Love, Kay
xx

[brexit]

Hi Kay,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

The separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I' is a story about who we are. This story cannot decide or control anything. There is no separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form and there never was.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of separate self starts with the identification with the body/mind. We see us here and all other things outside. There is a separation between us and the others. Once the illusion of a separate self is seen through than all there is is THIS.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

There is a shift in perception. The things are seen now as they are and not as the thoughts are telling us. Almost the judgments and the labeling are witnessed in a new light.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

While watching the game of soccer the certainity deepens that the thoughts (commentator) are always late in judgning, interpreting and labeling all happenings . All happenings are now and the thoughts were always about the happenings.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.

There is no one or anything taking descision, having intention, free will, choice or control. Things just happen from nowhere. There is no decision taker, or choicer or controller with free will or an intention to control or create anything that seems to happen.

b) What makes things happen? How does it work?

Things just happen from nowhere. There is no doer doing the work. Just thoughts say so.

c) What are you responsible for?

There is no responsibility and no one responsible for anything. Being responsible is just an idea that thoughts tell us.

d) Give examples from experience.

I have no control how things in day to day experience could be. Especially how I could responds to negative emotions. Why I am treating my relatives and my close friends badly. If I am able to make decisions on my own I could avoid such behavior.

e) what else to add

I can’t thank you enough for the efforts you are making here to help others. You are pain relievers for the humanity.
Thank you, thank you …

Love, Brexit

[forgetmenot]

Hey Brexit!

Thank you for your responses. I am now going to ask the other guides to have a look to ensure that I have covered all the bases for this exploration and to ensure that my guiding has been clear...therefore you being clear that there is no separate self. This may take a couple of days and they may, or may not have further questions for you. Once that has been done, you will be invited to join the Aftercare group. If you like, we can then continue with further investigations.

Love, Kay
xx