Emptiness is the track on which the centred person moves. - Tsongkhapa.

[IainB]

Dear Nina,

Please have a look at a thought of Iain.

There is an imagined internal noise that sounds in response to Iain, two syllables, like an internal breath in an out.

Iain thoughts soon loose power. The idea of Iain drifts away. I have to resort to vocalising my name to trigger further thoughts of Me.

There was a willingness to try and merge the idea of Iain with the alertness of mind and sensations of my body, but there is no Iain in these things.

Letters can be experienced, but these are just mental shapes.

The familiarity of the warmth of body sensations: these offer a tendency to branch off into some Iain story.

I experience the dynamic energy of aliveness. This somehow seems linked to a person, but there is no hard and fast Iain I can pin down.

Love, Iain

[Nina45]

Hi Iain!

You have found some very interesting things to look at!

There is an imagined internal noise that sounds in response to Iain, two syllables, like an internal breath in an out.

Is this a subtle thought? Or a mental sound? It will be interesting to find out exactly what it is.

Iain thoughts soon loose power. The idea of Iain drifts away. I have to resort to vocalising my name to trigger further thoughts of Me.

What is doing the vocalising? Can you find an 'I' saying anything?

There was a willingness to try and merge the idea of Iain with the alertness of mind and sensations of my body, but there is no Iain in these things.

Is there a 'mind' to be found in direct experience?
Do sensations belong to anyone?
It there an owner of thoughts? Is there an owner of sound, colour, smell, taste, sensation?

Letters can be experienced, but these are just mental shapes.

That is right. Does Iain have any meaning beyond those mental shapes?

The familiarity of the warmth of body sensations: these offer a tendency to branch off into some Iain story.

That is interesting.
What days that there is familiarity in these sensations?

I experience the dynamic energy of aliveness. This somehow seems linked to a person, but there is no hard and fast Iain I can pin down.

Does life belong to Iain?
Or does life just happen?
Does Iain have any control of the aging of the body? Or the beating heart?

Best wishes

Nina
Xxx

[IainB]

Dear Nina,

My mind screams with resistance to looking, but I shall push through. Iain has things to do, the sun is shining and I am committed to some work out there. It seems important to serve these needs and act, god knows why. I wish I could attend non-duality school to become a good potential see-er of non duality.

Is this a subtle thought? Or a mental sound? It will be interesting to find out exactly what it is.

This is my standard Iain. It is a thought, but experienced as a feeling in my chest, so mental sound as you say. It is lumpy, familiar, and hangs at my heart height in my chest. It seems important to have this mental sound Iain. If it were absent and I could not call it to mind, then I might struggle to establish my existence.

What is doing the vocalising? Can you find an 'I' saying anything?

The vocalising simply happens, and is experienced. There is no person behind the vocalising.

Is there a 'mind' to be found in direct experience?

I still struggle with this. I'm still at the point of recognising and believing there is still something there when no thoughts appear. Maybe if I turned all my thoughts and experience off there would be nothing left.

Do sensations belong to anyone?

I collect and remember my sensations. They don't last long but I recall previous sensations. They happen to my body, inside my body. My mind reacts. They are distinct to sensations happening to others. I can't relinquish ownership of my sensations.

It there an owner of thoughts? Is there an owner of sound, colour, smell, taste, sensation?

However, It seems silly to try to claim ownership of these things. These experiences arise and pass.

That is right. Does Iain have any meaning beyond those mental shapes?

Iain can feel reduced to some mental shapes that are just elusive flickers. Sensations soon sweep in to substantiate some sort of Me though.

What days that there is familiarity in these sensations?

These sensations seem to always be there when I look, when I'm not consumed by more complex thoughts.

Does life belong to Iain?
Or does life just happen?
Does Iain have any control of the aging of the body? Or the beating heart?

Life is simply happening. It's liberating to think that my life is in fee fall, and there is little or no influence I might have on what happens in the future. I wish I could see this directly, rather than as an idea though.

Why is it so hard to see what has [not] been there all along? Why do I resist so thoroughly?

Love, Iain

[Nina45]

Hi Iain.

My mind screams with resistance to looking, but I shall push through

.

Welcome in the resistance. What does it need? What is the fear?

This is my standard Iain. It is a thought, but experienced as a feeling in my chest, so mental sound as you say. It is lumpy, familiar, and hangs at my heart height in my chest. It seems important to have this mental sound Iain. If it were absent and I could not call it to mind, then I might struggle to establish my existence.

Great find! Have a look at the mental sound. What Is there exactly?

Is there a 'mind' to be found in direct experience?

I still struggle with this. I'm still at the point of recognising and believing there is still something there when no thoughts appear. Maybe if I turned all my thoughts and experience off there would be nothing left.

Is there a thought free state?
Really try to locate 'mind'.
Is it possible to find a location for all this mental activity?

I collect and remember my sensations. They don't last long but I recall previous sensations. They happen to my body, inside my body. My mind reacts. They are distinct to sensations happening to others. I can't relinquish ownership of my sensations.

Where is the owner of sensation located?
Who do sensations belong to?
Find the owner's exact location.

It there an owner of thoughts? Is there an owner of sound, colour, smell, taste, sensation?

However, It seems silly to try to claim ownership of these things. These experiences arise and pass.

That is right. Does Iain have any meaning beyond those mental shapes?

Iain can feel reduced to some mental shapes that are just elusive flickers. Sensations soon sweep in to substantiate some sort of Me though.

What days that there is familiarity in these sensations?

Life is simply happening. It's liberating to think that my life is in fee fall, and there is little or no influence I might have on what happens in the future. I wish I could see this directly, rather than as an idea though.

Life is simply happening. But we are not looking for new beliefs. We are looking to see if what we believe already is there is infact there. What is this identity we believe in? Where is it? What makes this 'I' identity?

Nina
Xxx

[Nina45]

sorry Iain - last post confusing. Try this one.

My mind screams with resistance to looking, but I shall push through

.

Welcome in the resistance. What does it need? What is the fear?

This is my standard Iain. It is a thought, but experienced as a feeling in my chest, so mental sound as you say. It is lumpy, familiar, and hangs at my heart height in my chest. It seems important to have this mental sound Iain. If it were absent and I could not call it to mind, then I might struggle to establish my existence.

Great find! Have a look at the mental sound. What Is there exactly?

Is there a 'mind' to be found in direct experience?

I still struggle with this. I'm still at the point of recognising and believing there is still something there when no thoughts appear. Maybe if I turned all my thoughts and experience off there would be nothing left.

Is there a thought free state?
Really try to locate 'mind'.
Is it possible to find a location for all this mental activity?

I collect and remember my sensations. They don't last long but I recall previous sensations. They happen to my body, inside my body. My mind reacts. They are distinct to sensations happening to others. I can't relinquish ownership of my sensations.

Where is the owner of sensation located?
Who do sensations belong to?
Find the owner's exact location.

Life is simply happening. It's liberating to think that my life is in fee fall, and there is little or no influence I might have on what happens in the future. I wish I could see this directly, rather than as an idea though.

Life is simply happening. But we are not looking for new beliefs. We are looking to see if what we believe already is there is infact there. What is this identity we believe in? Where is it? What makes this 'I' identity?

Nina
Xxx
[/quote]

[IainB]

Dear Nina,

Welcome in the resistance. What does it need? What is the fear?

As you say, delight in that resistance (but no excuses for allowing it to prevent my looking).
I relish the opportunity to delve deeper into Mind and Me. There are thoughts that try to lead me away from looking, suggesting that the sensations of here and now are all I need…”just keep busy and stay in that familiar furrow”.

Great find! Have a look at the mental sound. What Is there exactly?

It’s quite distinct that mental sound. I fancy that it takes place in my chest but in reality this is just a silly idea, there’s no sounds going on down there. It’s an idea of sound. Not real. An experience that somehow might suggest there could be a person.

Is there a thought free state?
Really try to locate 'mind'.
Is it possible to find a location for all this mental activity?

All I know is the experiences happening to me. If there is not an experience going on then really there is nothing. A thought free state is ridiculous, unless there is thought, sensation, visual or sound experience there is nothing. I cannot know something unless it is an experience. I cannot experience a fantasy movie screen that shows the projected thoughts. When the projection stops, all and everything stops.

Where is the owner of sensation located?
Who do sensations belong to?
Find the owner's exact location.

Sensations belong only to themselves. They happen, but there is no sensation holder to be found other than the sensations. Sensation is the thing. Inventing a sensation owner would be an unnecessary story. No owner required, sound, colour, smell, taste and sensation happening only.

What is this identity we believe in? Where is it? What makes this 'I' identity?

The story of identity is just an elaborate thought pattern that appears in different ways at different times. I feel the rush of excitement that accompanies seeing the gaps in the memories and thoughts and concepts that make up the ongoing and ever changing story of Me.

Love, Iain

[Nina45]

Hi Iain!

Sorry for my delay in replying. I and the children have been I'll this week.

It’s quite distinct that mental sound. I fancy that it takes place in my chest but in reality this is just a silly idea, there’s no sounds going on down there. It’s an idea of sound. Not real. An experience that somehow might suggest there could be a person.

That is amazing isn't it Iain? That thought can even fabricate a convincing sound that isn't there.

Is it possible that thought is fabricating the many facets of Iain? Have a look to see what other things thought is sating about Iain.

Very best wishes

Nina
Xxx

[IainB]

Dear Nina,

I hope you and your family are feeling better. Many blessings and love.

Is it possible that thought is fabricating the many facets of Iain? Have a look to see what other things thought is saying about Iain.

I feel more alert to the big difference between the world of sensory experience and the world of thought.

Thoughts love to repeat, re-examine, build and create. I can begin to see where this creation Iain has been allowed to sneak in.

My thoughts can be quite punishing. Returning to painful events again and again. How unnecessary to repeat silly stories. Sometimes I have fearful thoughts. It's as if fear needs something to centre on, revolving around a sensation of I.

I have an internal dialogue narrating what goes on. It's not possible to see where this comes from. It seems self sustaining. I can't predict what it's going to come up with yet. I used to think this was the narrative of Iain, but this idea has lessened. It is simply narrative. what thoughts do.

Thought can never be real. Thought takes sensation experience and forms a story out of it. Stories are not real. It is a bit like I am a thought ghost, both here and not here.

I look and glimpse and endless series of thoughts of I leading from the distant past to now. There's quite a firmness of clinging on to this I.

Love, Iain

[Nina45]

Hi Iain -

Things seem to be getting clearer. Is that right? How are you feeling?

I look and glimpse and endless series of thoughts of I leading from the distant past to now. There's quite a firmness of clinging on to this I.

Are thoughts about the past special thoughts? Or they just thoughts like any other?

Do thoughts about the past come with a special flavour? Or is there another thought saying that this is a 'memory'?

Do these thoughts about the past stay the same? Are they ever the same twice?

Lots of love

Nina
Xxx

[IainB]

Dear Nina,

Things seem to be getting clearer. Is that right? How are you feeling?

The story of Iain did seem a little more separate at times. There was a little bit of divergence between the thought of Iain, and my other internal stories and dialogues. I noticed this, and it was interesting and felt relevant to my search, but it didn't result in any big shift of feeling. As if Iain stories were in one hand, and stories about everything else happened in the other, with a little space or gap in between. It didn't last long, much as I would like it to have resulted in some genuine shift I could tell you about.

Everything soon returned to normal. I wish I could report some heightened clarity, but if there was some it didn't persist. The current story is more one of frustration at my lack of seeing.

Are thoughts about the past special thoughts? Or they just thoughts like any other?

Thoughts about the past remain special. They are special because they happened to me. I originally drafted a response to this question suggesting that if I looked for that little space or gap then it helped past thoughts about me seem more neutral and less tied to a self, but I caught myself formulating a story in making such a response. Far better to be honest.

Do thoughts about the past come with a special flavour? Or is there another thought saying that this is a 'memory'?

I'm not sure about this. Perhaps thinking they are "Iain's" past thoughts might make them special. If I think of that little space or gap again, between the story of Iain and all my other emerging thought stories, then it helps me see them as just thoughts, as opposed to thoughts tied to a person. I don't think there is an additional thought identifying identifying them as a memory. Memories come ready formed, distinct from my current sensory experiences or thoughts about the here and now.

This again sounds like a contrived story. I wonder sometimes if I fundamentally struggle with direct experience and answering from direct experience?

Do these thoughts about the past stay the same? Are they ever the same twice?

Thoughts about the past are never the same twice. Events once took place, and memories arise, but each triggering of memories is just another story about things that may have happened once that even originally were experienced subjectively. Stories about stories moving yet further away from their increasingly distant origin.

Love, Iain

[Nina45]

Hi Iain -

Would you like to meet up again?

Sit and look at thought for about 10 minutes.

Is there a logical sequence?

Are the memory thoughts distinct?

Are the future thoughts distinct?

Is there any order to thought? Or I'd there a thought telling you there is an order to thought?

Imagine for a moment that thoughts are in a filing cabinet. The history thoughts and future thoughts are in different draws. The random thoughts are in a drawer marked 'random'.

Build this image. Watch it for a few minutes.

Is it possible to see that this image of the filing cabinet is a thought too? That the filing cabinet is not 'real'?

Are there thoughts about thought that seem to be 'real'?

Are there thoughts about sensation that seem to be real?

Sometimes it is difficult to distinguish thought from direct experience. It is these convincing thoughts that create the illusion.

Very best wishes

Nina.

[IainB]

Dear Nina,

Would you like to meet up again?

This is a very kind offer and one I cherish. I'm feeling somewhat frustrated and confused about life in general at the moment, and this obviously transfers to my work here. I'd prefer to meet when I'm more clear headed, although I recognise that could be counterproductive and now is the time to look as directly as possible. I am hugely grateful for your offer, and for the time you devote to myself an others here. The work of the guides is humbling.

Sit and look at thought for about 10 minutes...Is there a logical sequence?

Thoughts often don't have a logical sequence. Different people, ideas of needs, fears, joys, hopes and concerns all happen. It's a cacophony of stories, often jumbled and competing for attention. On the whole unpredictable, but if the story points me in one direction then thoughts will re-occur with other thought directions as a mini story within the wider story. Sometimes I catch myself wondering why am I thinking that? Then I can trace my thoughts back and see how the previous one triggered the latter. However, there is no origin to this process. So, an element of logic within a wider sea of random stories. The familiar thought story of "you are Iain, thinking familiar Iain thoughts" holds this house of cards together.

Are the memory thoughts distinct? ...Are the future thoughts distinct?

I don't think so (he says, happily contradicting himself from his previous post). In the world of thought stories the energy of the narrative is similar be it flickering memory image ideas, or a dialogue of thoughts formed into words to continue and deepen a particular story. The stories about the past or future happen, and are either lazily ignored or prompt an emotive response, e.g. that thought needs to be acted upon now or soon or there will be a problem for me, or I will miss out or be left unfulfilled. Thoughts about an imagined future that will happen to me are not necessarily more distinct, but may prompt reactions in ways memories do not.

Is there any order to thought? Or is there a thought telling you there is an order to thought?

There is no order to thought. This is a characteristic of the imagined being I think I am. There is an endless spill of stories that I have no control over. If anything, I lazily relent to the unpredictably of thoughts and simply let the stories and future fantasies play out. The thought of Iain drifts either alongside the stories, or at times the stories directly address what Iain is or needs. Thoughts about Iain change moment by moment even if they do like to suggest some silly sensation of permanence through their familiarity.

Imagine for a moment that thoughts are in a filing cabinet...Is it possible to see that this image of the filing cabinet is a thought too? That the filing cabinet is not 'real'?

All unreal stories about yet myriad other unreal stories. This really helps to point towards the silliness of the thought of Iain. My senses experience, stories a triggered and flow endlessly. Memories are like a dissolving photograph negatives of something once experienced, fantasy stories create an imagined future in which things will happen, and random babble thoughts. How silly to think there could there be a place for a person in there.

Are there thoughts about thought that seem to be 'real'?

I don't think I can experience thoughts as real as I once assumed, even thoughts about thought. There is the world of sensory experience and the world of stories. Even stories about stories cannot make themselves real. Stories are compelling, captivating, utterly addictive and I am one hundred percent enslaved by them. The story of Iain is their apotheosis, the tallest tale of them all that somehow needs to thrust itself into the light at every opportunity as it fights for its imagined life.

Are there thoughts about sensation that seem to be real?

I'm helped by looking at the dichotomy of sensory experience, and thought and memory stories. It's tempting to grasp firmly to the idea that sensation and thought are wrapped together in a causal relationship in which thought borrows its "realness" from the reality of experience. Similarly, that the thought story Iain can extract sensations from a world apparently out there to feed future happy thoughts, and manipulate external events to avoid resulting unhappy thoughts, but this probably just a silly made up story.

So, sensations happen, and thought may jump in with its skilled narrative building powers, but the resulting story surely can't be real. Be it the thought "that message from my friend means I will get to meet her later", the thought "if I tap away at the keyboard if front of me I will be able to share my ideas with others", giraffes, libraries or Iain.

Thought has been put in its place a little. Thank you for helping me look at this.

Love, Iain

[Nina45]

Hi Iain-

Simple question.

Follow the "story of Father Christmas" in thought. There are many versions of the story from different countries in Europe and I guess across the world now. Follow the stories that show up.

How does the story unfold?
Are their mental pictures?
Is their a narrative voice?
Are their colours, sounds?
Is their feeling/ sensation attached to the story? If so, what sensations are there?

Now follow the 'story of Iain" in thought.
How does the story unfold?
Are their mental pictures?
Is their a narrative voice?
Are their colours, sounds?
Is their feeling/ sensation attached to the story? If so, what sensations are there?

What do you notice?
Is there any difference in the way the stories show up?

Best wishes

Nina
Xxx

[IainB]

Dear Nina,

Follow the "story of Father Christmas" in thought. There are many versions of the story from different countries in Europe and I guess across the world now. Follow the stories that show up.

How does the story unfold?

The Santa story started a long time ago, way back early before I was old enough to know of a Santa. Later, I learned that Santa had been introduced at the earliest of ages, at my first Christmas when I was six months old. He soon took hold after that.

Are their mental pictures?

Santa is less distinct now. Prior to seeing the truth of Santa there was clarity: multiple different colourful images of a real person doing all sorts of different actions.

Is their a narrative voice?

Santa could speak! He had to speak in order to conduct himself in his many special activities. I couldn’t hear him speak as such, but knew this to be something he did often. He was after all, a real living breathing person who could do everything any other person could do, just with more special qualities unique to him. Santa was so real at times it felt like he was almost speaking directly to me.

Are their colours, sounds?

Santa was awash with colours, particularly the red of his clothing and the white of his flowing beard. There was often a distinctive sound of the rustling of his sacks, and the whoosh of his sleigh as it flew through the sky.

Is their feeling/ sensation attached to the story? If so, what sensations are there?

There are sensations of excitement, warmth, familiarity, fun and special-ness that run throughout the story of Santa. Even once the truth of Santa was seen, these special feelings still hold a resonance.

Now follow the 'story of Iain" in thought.

How does the story unfold?

Iain is a familiar story also. If I go back to my earliest memories the story of Iain was already firmly in place. Somehow, despite always changing, it goes back to the earliest times before enduring memories formed.

Are their mental pictures?

The story of Iain is very much one of memories and thoughts of a person’s body. That body has become deeply associated with Iain. While a person’s body can be present without the name, in order for Iain to come to mind there needs to be a mental picture of a body, be it small, big, young, old, beautiful, ugly… the mental picture of Iain has become tied to an idea image of his body.

Is their a narrative voice?

Iain has a voice! Or at least there is a thought narrative that would like to adopt the identity of Iain. Looking closer, it is clear that while there is a clear unfolding narrated story, it is only an additional thought assumption that this is Iain’s voice. A narrative of thoughts, and a thought that this is somehow Iain’s story.

Are their colours, sounds?

Iain seems to need colour and sounds for this story to come to life. The thought of the colour of Iain’s skin, the sound experiences when Iain’s vocal chords vibrate, the colours of his clothes, the sounds of his yawns, farts, laughs.

Is their feeling/ sensation attached to the story? If so, what sensations are there?

There is a familiar sensation in the abdomen that suggests Iain is at home there. This feeling is experienced as a thought.

What do you notice?

Santa and Iain are one in that they were stories foisted upon me, reinforced by lots of suggestions until eventually adopted, internalised and grasped onto. There was a shock when the realisation dawned that Santa was a mere fiction. Iain is a mear fiction too!

Is there any difference in the way the stories show up?

In truth there is little difference. There was a thought that Santa existed outside in the world, flying through the sky, whereas there are thoughts that Iain exists in the confines of a body with thoughts of a mind belonging to Iain and thinking Iain thoughts.

Love, Iain

[Nina45]

Thank you for the very clear answers Iain. Iain thoughts are indeed no different from Santa thoughts.

Sometimes the answers seem to be from memory?
Is that right?

Is a 'memory' a different kind of thought.
Or is it a thought that says it is a past thought?

Is a memory thought happening now or in the past?

Can thoughts happen at any time other than now?

Is there a feeling that memory thoughts give a 'depth' to the feeling of 'me'?

Love

Nina
Xxx