eternal prayer

[Ilona]

You say that body is the self? Is that true?
There is body, is the body the experiencer or the experienced? Are you inside or outside the body?
How is body experienced?
With eyes closed, where is the line that body ends and out there begins? Is skin a boundary? Can you know how big the body is with eyes closed? Is there a line between inside and outside the body, if you don't refer to images, ideas and memory? Find the line.

Sending love

[illusions13]

Maybe i did not grasp the question correctly.

I did not mean that the body is the self. I kind of meant that the body is the only thing that i am able to pinpoint.
But it doesnt feel like the self.
The body is the experienced.

The self feels like something that is just watching all that goes on inside and outside the body.
It seems to be inside the body yet cannot be pinpointed and seems to perceive the outside as well as it does the inside.
So it feels like there really is no boundary.

Since the images, memories etc seem to originate in the mind/brain, there is a feeling of the 'self' being inside somewhere.

There is no line.

[Ilona]

Maybe it's time to actually consider that there really is no self. None as in zero, none as in never was.
How does it feel to let that thought in?

[illusions13]

I like the thought :)
And briefly have felt it too...no thoughts...just feeling it
But it doesnt last long
Questions n doubts come rushing in
Very fleetingly it feels ok to have no self & then suddenly it doesnt feel right

[Ilona]

What do you mean by to have no self?
Is there a you to have or not to have a self? Hehe

It's like you are saying that no-santa comes at Christmas.

Do thoughts come to a self?
Is there a thinker at all?
Are you the thinker?
Are you the creator of colours too?

Keep digging

Sending love.

[illusions13]

:)
This is getting harder n harder.

Will ponder on this.

[Ilona]

You can think about it or you can look for yourself and see what is true in experience. That's just like looking for keys. You can think where you put them or you can actualy look for them and see. Do that.

Sending love.

[illusions13]

Do thoughts come to a self?
No, they just come. Seems like the thinking is just an auto process.

Is there a thinker at all?
The brain is the thinker perhaps.

Are you the thinker?
Not able to figure out who 'you' is.

Are you the creator of colours too?
The colors are just there.

It does seem easier to answer the qs when u drop the thinking and just do looking but somehow the brain isnt satisfied with such plain simple short answers! :)

[Ilona]

thank you for writing from looking! yes, the sentences are shorter :)

Is there a thinker at all?
The brain is the thinker perhaps.

perhaps. is it true? there are things going on that scientists are telling us about, we can trust that or not. in experience, where do thoughts come from ?
don't think, just look, where do they go?

sending love

[illusions13]

I have no idea.

Cant see where they come from or where they go.

[Ilona]

What can you see when observing the thinking mechanism? Do thoughts come in bunches or one thought at a time one after another?
Can you stop a thought from coming?
Do you know what the next thought will be before it comes?
Do thoughts come from other thoughts?

Examine and write to me what you noticed.
Thanks
Much love

[illusions13]

Cant make out whether thoughts come in bunches or single..seems to be a mix of both.

Cant stop them..they just come.

I dont know what the next thought will be.
Unless i try to make myself think on some topic...even then I cant say what the thought will be, maybe max i know what topic it will be on.

Some thoughts seem to come from other thoughts, maybe if i am pondering on something.
But a lot of thoughts just seem to come randomly too.

[Ilona]

Cant make out whether thoughts come in bunches or single..seems to be a mix of both.

Can you hold four thoughts in the mind at one time?
Try
Examine this closely, how do thought apear?
Can you speak two words in one instance?
Can you think of two numbers at once or only one after another?

Keep looking!

Sending love

[illusions13]

Nope, cant hold more than 1 thought at a time
But they are in such quick succession that they seem to be many at once
And its hard to hold a thought down, they just come n go
The more I try to focus on any thought, the more it seems to vanish

[Ilona]

Seem to be :) yes, but at the bottom of that is what IS and it's never 2 thoughts at a time. Words by word, the story is woven.

Are thoughts coming from some other thoughts?
Are thoughts coming from I thought?
Where does the I thought come from?

Write what you notice
Sending love.