Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387

[Sarah7]

Hi Adam

I just meditated for a half hour. At the end i had an insight, or realization. That thoughts are happening whether you are aware of it or not, there is no thinking, thought is always happening, sometimes very subtley, but its a constant stream, whether awareness is listening to it looking at it or not, it is there. It exists. Thinking is a part of direct experience.

Lovely!

As i turned and walked away and heard the fan and the echo of my steps in the bathroom, i got a brief look and understanding, i got scared, i sensed as though this thing or being that experiences is not exactly my own, that i dont posess it, it could leave this bodily "self",it could carry on without my body or mind, but i could not carry on without it.

How are ‘you’ separate from ‘it’? How do you separate the reflection from the mirror? The wave from the ocean? ‘You’ die every night. But does awareness? What is it that says you are separate from it? A thought? So what got scared?

I wanna do this some more. I feel happy and a little creeped out.

OK – can you check there isn’t a wanting to have that state back? What state is ever permanent?
Try it when just moving about, or walking – just notice. Are you in the body looking out, of the body as a whole or in certain part of the body? If all – then will you exist if you cut your hair, lose an arm or lose weight? If in a part – which part? Is there a time when the self is not experienced? Did the self chose to not experience itself? Did it chose to come back at some point? Or did that just happen? When you had no sense of self – did you disappear?

enjoy the fourth of july Sarah.

Cheers love – we don’t really celebrate it over here – but I did have a lovely walk instead!
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Adam51387]

Is thought just another dimension of existence? The thougt realm?

It was a scared thought, that must have come from egoic consciousness. It was literally scared of the depth of what was thought to be percieved.

there was definitly a wanting to repeat that experience, the pleasure of it. But that experience is gone now. It cant go back there.

[Adam51387]

Looking out happens through the eyes of the body located in the head, there is no self in any paticular part. The self isnt experienced when asleep, right? I certaintly did not choose when the body experiences itself or not, this no self experiencing must come only through the right kind of consciousness, or looking(not visual looking, but perception)

[Sarah7]

Hi Adam

Is thought just another dimension of existence? The thougt realm?

Well what is experienced – do you experience a separate realm? Or does thought simply arise/appear in what is?

It was a scared thought, that must have come from egoic consciousness. It was literally scared of the depth of what was thought to be percieved.

Was there actually a threat there? Or thought making one up!

there was definitly a wanting to repeat that experience, the pleasure of it.

Well spotted.

Looking out happens through the eyes of the body located in the head, there is no self in any paticular part.

When looking ‘out’ do you experience eyes or head? Or sensation?
What is ‘out’? Where is the start of out and the end of in?
What wants answers?

The self isnt experienced when asleep, right?

Again – look yourself – what is experienced?

I certaintly did not choose when the body experiences itself or not,

Well noticed!
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Adam51387]

Thought appears of course in the realm of what is, im not talking about a seperate realm, time and space realm coexist in what is, i meant in that capacity.

there was nothing to actually fear, it was just eery, creepy, the unknown, it was percieved as a threat to the egoic consciousness by the egoic conscipusness.

hmm, i can experience the feeling of the eyes movig about in the head. Thoughts want answers, so therefore I think I want answers, which is thoughts thinking they are the self!
I dont know how to find a dividing line between out and in, or where behind starts.

[Adam51387]

There is no self experienced when asleep, there are still thoughts, dreams, visions, so sometimes there is the illusion of self in these dreams, but there is even less attachment there. Sometimes concepts of self are missing in dreams, and i am running around thinking i am i but a different i, an i who experienced a different past perhaps then the awareness that has experienced my awake past.

[Adam51387]

Sorry about the delay, very tied down

With
Love and Respect, Adam

[Sarah7]

Hi Adam

hmm, i can experience the feeling of the eyes movig about in the head.

Is that a thought though – eyes moving in my head? An interpretation of sensation? Have a look.

Anymore questions Adam? Anything you feel unsure of? Or want to look at further?

Lets have a tidy up session! As always, in direct experience:

Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?
Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?
Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?
Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?
Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations?
Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?
Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?
Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?
Hugs Sraah xxx

[Adam51387]

Hello Sarah.

It is an intErpretation, concepts based on learning. The sensation can be labled mentally, but its never the actual experience of whats happening, looking is happening, but how do i look behind what is being looked at?

I do have more questions, i seem pretty clear about this, but thoughts tell me i should master it better and experience fron this perspective of no self more often, i want to take my thoughts and emotions less personal, i dont want things like stress and feelings for women to up set me and be taken personal, i wanna be more non attached, i realize that these thoughts will never change there stance, so i try to shift focus back to the present moment and focus more on something actually happening right now that is beig seen or heard, i am selfish, in the regard that i view my self apart from the whole, thoughts feel left behind, out of place among people around me, a thought of wanting to get ahead. The thoughts and body want to get ahead of others

[Adam51387]

How do i sit with feelings and let them be? Especially unpleasant ones? How do i prevent feelings and thoughts from being harped on, or overanalyzed, how do i let it be

[Adam51387]

Right now i am still seeing some sort of struggle with the idea that there is no control, that there isnt sonething that can control what it focuses on, you spread the awareness of no self to me, and now my awareness trys to recall from that when i am struggling with my thoughts/emotions. I have no delusion that there is a locateable self doing all this, but why does it seem to respond in a way that it should, in the sense that when i get angry it trys to make it better, or even in the past when i was in a much darker negative energy it tried to respond and find ways in which to make things worse and make resoloutions about who i was and what storys about me and my pain where real?

[Sarah7]

Morning Adam

It is an interpretation, concepts based on learning. The sensation can be labled mentally, but its never the actual experience of whats happening, looking is happening, but how do i look behind what is being looked at?

Does looking happen even when attention is elsewhere? Doesn’t something notice?

i want to take my thoughts and emotions less personal, i dont want things like stress and feelings for women to up set me and be taken personal, i wanna be more non attached,

Do you see that all of these are thoughts and that they want something other than what is? What power do thoughts have Adam? What can they do? What is bothered by these thoughts? Is it thought laying themselves over feeling or emotion? Interpreting those sensations?

i realize that these thoughts will never change there stance, so i try to shift focus back to the present moment and focus more on something actually happening right now that is beig seen or heard,

Who or what tries? Noticing is all that’s needed. Notice thoughts doing this – can you do that with out wanting them to be any different from how they are?

How do i sit with feelings and let them be? Especially unpleasant ones? How do i prevent feelings and thoughts from being harped on, or overanalyzed, how do i let it be

Notice what they are made up of. Kind of like analyzing their content. Write down what is noticed when that unpleasant feeling is in flow. Write down what sensation is there, what emotions are there. Whether thought is present – notice that they are there rather than following their content. Notice how they try and attach and interpret what is felt. How they explain. Recognise the ‘wanting’ to get rid of what is experienced. Of the need to move away from. Sit with it all.

As for preventing – how does the ocean through out an unworthy or unwanted wave? Which reflection is not allowed on that mirror? What would want something’s and not others? Look at that – what wants and doesn’t want.

Right now i am still seeing some sort of struggle with the idea that there is no control, that there isnt sonething that can control what it focuses on,

Give me an example of where you feel control is in action – and we can look together.

you spread the awareness of no self to me, and now my awareness trys to recall from that when i am struggling with my thoughts/emotions.

Is that struggle made up of thought wanting something other than what is?

I have no delusion that there is a locateable self doing all this, but why does it seem to respond in a way that it should, in the sense that when i get angry it trys to make it better, or even in the past when i was in a much darker negative energy it tried to respond and find ways in which to make things worse and make resoloutions about who i was and what storys about me and my pain where real?

Leant behaviours? Learnt responses – all of which need looking at – its kind of like peeling an onion –one layer at a time! BUT – all of this is what? Is it all thought and story? What responds to stories with yet more stories?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Adam51387]

Good afternoon Sarah!

Looking can happen when attention is elsewhere, what notices is awareness, is that spirit? Before that was confused as the me, i see now that this is awareness the has no abode anywhere paticular. Is THAT true nature?

I see the thoughts agitated over what is, but arent the thoughts the cause of the emotion? Its like the chicken or the egg. If i see something happen that upsets me, its the story about it in my head that makes me feel feelings, again it goes back to my inquiry of can one feel feelings without the thought? What does despair feel like without thinking " i am feeling despair"?

A friend and i where having a conversation last night, and he was talking about the notion of how if a man walks into a room full of people believing he is great and feeling confident he will project it and, if it where a job interview, most likely get the job, because his consciousness of self was harboring positive energy and thought, which he believed, and so other believe, his thoughts became a projection which manifested into reality, this idea is sonething i read about in a bok called the secret by Rhonda Byrne and based off my own direct experiences it is true in some capacity, the book toys more with the law of attraction and my buddy was talking more about not being self conscious(with a negative connotation) and projection. So , i would have to say that to some extent, thoughts have as much power as is given to them by conscious belief in them.


Ah, the dilemna lies in believing that the thoughts are reporting to a self about how it feels. I am mistaking the emotion of the thought( thought and emotions are connected) as "my" own.

[Adam51387]

Sometimes i choose to workout, why would awareness choose to work out? Sometimes the thoughts and feelings arent even up for it, but i fo it anyway. So sometimes i feel control, it feels like direct manipulation of willpower.

[Sarah7]

Hey Adam

Looking can happen when attention is elsewhere, what notices is awareness, is that spirit? Before that was confused as the me, i see now that this is awareness the has no abode anywhere paticular. Is THAT true nature?

See the story you are adding to explain? Just look. Is it the only constant? Is it what everything else arises in? Is it ever not available? Ever not there?

I see the thoughts agitated over what is,

Good! And can you sit with that without ‘doing’ anything – feeling the agitation, being with it completely?

So , i would have to say that to some extent, thoughts have as much power as is given to them by conscious belief in them.

In other words – a thought believing a thought – so again – can thoughts think? Do you have experience of that?

Ah, the dilemna lies in believing that the thoughts are reporting to a self about how it feels. I am mistaking the emotion of the thought( thought and emotions are connected) as "my" own.

What explains the emotion? What interprets? What actually can a thought ‘know’? Im not saying emotion is not experienced here – look at what explains it – if you feel agitation – compare it to say the sensation in your foot – is that agitated? Why not?

Sometimes i choose to workout, why would awareness choose to work out? Sometimes the thoughts and feelings arent even up for it, but i fo it anyway. So sometimes i feel control, it feels like direct manipulation of willpower.

OK – so notice this process as much as possible. Has body moved to the gym before the thought? Where is this ‘I’ that choses gym? Is it truer to say that doing just happens? That decisions just happen? Rather than saying ‘I’ chose the gym? Watch like a hawk hunting! What is noticed?

What is willpower? Another thought?

Is awareness bothered what happens? IF anything happens?
Hugs Sarah xxx