Seeking a Guide

[Sarah7]

Hi Jessica

Those sneaky buggers!

Indeed! LOL.

I know that thoughts can not look but it is their nature to say things like that.

But you see this? That they cannot see but yet say they can?

I looked at a tree first. Well, actually the tree was seen! Meaning that the colors, the patterns in the bark, the branches, the leaves, all were seen before it was labeled "It's a tree!".

Did thoughts also say colour, patterns, bark and texture?

There was no "ME" choosing what to focus on.

Well seen. Keep looking for the split – is there one – a seer, the seen and the seeing. This all ties into to the being part of what is – the connection.

At one point during today's walk, it was almost as if I could feel the seeing!

Nice.

I want to continue to look at seeing for a few days

Fine – let me know what you notice. There were plenty of questions included – maybe take one or two at a time?
Much Love Sarah xxx

[jessica07]

Hi Sarah,

But you see this? That they cannot see but yet say they can?

Yes, I am starting to see this. Also, I can begin to see thoughts that "resist". There are lots of them! But there also seem to be "thoughts that reflect", these thoughts look back on experience and can be really helpful. But can thoughts "look back"? Thoughts seem to love to talk about past experiences, sometimes it seems really helpful and sometimes it seems to perpetuate something!! (or tries to).

Did thoughts also say colour, patterns, bark and texture?

The thoughts didn't say colour, patterns, bark, and texture during the actual seeing. They didn't even say "tree" during the seeing. They said those things later, maybe so "I" could communicate this experience with you. Seeing happens first, and labeling happens second.

Keep looking for the split – is there one – a seer, the seen and the seeing. This all ties into to the being part of what is – the connection.

I don't know yet, but I will be doing looking this weekend in the countryside. Are there any questions that I should (geez I was going to say 'think about' - but that doesn't seem to be the right expression) look at while in the countryside. Until now, life seems to have been lived mostly up inside this head.

Have a great weekend! I will write a another post on Monday, after lots of looking.

Love,

JessicaXXX

[Sarah7]

Hi Jessica

The thoughts didn't say colour, patterns, bark, and texture during the actual seeing. They didn't even say "tree" during the seeing. They said those things later, maybe so "I" could communicate this experience with you. Seeing happens first, and labeling happens second.

Well seen. Is there a split before thought – is there separation before thought?
Much Love and have a lovely weekend S xxx

[jessica07]

Hi Sarah,

I hope you had a nice weekend. "I" had another nice weekend in the countryside.

Is there a split before thought – is there separation before thought?

That's an interesting question. Maybe not, but thoughts always rush in to interpret the experience. Everything still feels like a separate object. Seeing is taking place, but everything looks or feels like a separate object , including this body- with or without thought. I helped out some friends in an onion field during the weekend. The body felt a lot of pain after doing this work. And at that time, thoughts kept coming up to say the body must be different from "everything that is" because it hurts. That happens when emotional pain occurs too - a very strong sense of separation.

When just looking at wildflowers, plants, and the ocean this sense of separation is felt less.

Consciousness seems have moved a bit beyond the body though, but just a bit, and it doesn't last long. I don't know how to describe this exactly.

The desire to change thoughts or the way of thinking has decreased. But the desire to understand what it is that thoughts do is still very strong.

Thanks always and warm wishes. Love,

Jessica XXX

[Sarah7]

Hi Jessica

That's an interesting question. Maybe not, but thoughts always rush in to interpret the experience.

Of course. That’s their job – and they have been doing it a long time! And there is nothing wrong with any of it. Do you see happening though – even for a brief period?

Everything still feels like a separate object. Seeing is taking place, but everything looks or feels like a separate object , including this body- with or without thought.

Feels - as in touch? Or thought - as in description?
Where is the split between there and here? Where is that line? Can you find it? Or are you looking at the edge of the object – I a thought that says look the edge of the object? Without touching – where does seeing happen – here or over there? Where does the seeing, the seer and the seen happen – over there or here?

I helped out some friends in an onion field during the weekend. The body felt a lot of pain after doing this work. And at that time, thoughts kept coming up to say the body must be different from "everything that is" because it hurts. That happens when emotional pain occurs too - a very strong sense of separation.

Is that story over the sensation though? Without the story there is the separation still there?
Keep going with the other looking questions.

When just looking at wildflowers, plants, and the ocean this sense of separation is felt less.

Is story quieter then? Or none at all? Where is 'I' when this looking happens? Can it be found?

The desire to change thoughts or the way of thinking has decreased. But the desire to understand what it is that thoughts do is still very strong.

What wants? Find that thought – that seeker thought, that driving thought? Dig it up and hunt it down. See it for what it is – a thought.
Much Love Sarah xxx

[jessica07]

Hi Sarah,

Of course. That’s their job – and they have been doing it a long time! And there is nothing wrong with any of it. Do you see happening though – even for a brief period?

Yes, I do see happening. I see happening without thought. Today was an interesting day because there was very little resistance to the events of the day. It was very nice. Doing got done. A lot of doing got done, and there didn't seem to be that many "I" thoughts coming up. For several hours, the body felt like it was in that very relaxing state right before going to sleep or right after waking up. Thoughts were really like lift music today. It was different and interesting. The same repeated thoughts about "messy Jessica" did come up as if on schedule but they didn't seem to turn into story. That feeling during the day was quite nice.

I thought that I might stay in that state for a while, but it's evening now and the "I" thoughts are back, and they feel strong. Perhaps there is nothing wrong with that. It's just that when there were no "I" thoughts it was so nice.

Feels - as in touch? Or thought - as in description?

Feels as in touch. When working on seeing I picked up some objects. But in just looking, other objects don't seem so separate.

Is that story over the sensation though? Without the story there is the separation still there?
Keep going with the other looking questions.

I will need some more time to look.

When just looking at wildflowers, plants, and the ocean this sense of separation is felt less.

Is story quieter then? Or none at all? Where is 'I' when this looking happens? Can it be found?

Oh, yes. Story is much quieter then. Sometimes there are no stories. There is no "I" when this looking happens.

Thanks always and warm wishes. Love,

Jessica XXX

[Sarah7]

Hi Jessica

That feeling during the day was quite nice.

What is the difference here between something that is not nice and something that is nice – out of story? Is there one?

I thought that I might stay in that state for a while, but it's evening now and the "I" thoughts are back, and they feel strong. Perhaps there is nothing wrong with that. It's just that when there were no "I" thoughts it was so nice.

What stays a while? Anywhere in your experience? What do you see, feel, think…. etc that is permanent? What wants to hold onto that permanence?

Feels as in touch. When working on seeing I picked up some objects. But in just looking, other objects don't seem so separate.

OK. When looking at something specific – is looking still happening i.e. is seeing of other ‘things’ happening? Is seeing being absorbed – but not labelled? You say don’t seem so separate – where is seeing happening? Think of a tv screen (or the mirror again) – on it all objects come and go – distance seems to be there – but is it? Labelling says look at that mountain – but where is the distance? It’s a flat screen. Now look out the window – where is seeing happening?
Much Love Sarah xxx

[jessica07]

Hi Sarah,

What stays a while? Anywhere in your experience? What do you see, feel, think…. etc that is permanent? What wants to hold onto that permanence?

Thoughts again!!! Thoughts say they want to hold onto this “good feeling”, and say they are “disappointed” when they can not. What I see, feel, think is not permanent. There’s a lot of repetition there, which until now has created an illusion of permanence.

OK. When looking at something specific – is looking still happening i.e. is seeing of other ‘things’ happening? Is seeing being absorbed – but not labelled? You say don’t seem so separate – where is seeing happening? Think of a tv screen (or the mirror again) – on it all objects come and go – distance seems to be there – but is it? Labelling says look at that mountain – but where is the distance? It’s a flat screen. Now look out the window – where is seeing happening?

Seeing of ‘other’ things is always happening without labelling. Most of the time, there is no labelling when things are seen. Seeing seems to happen at the object itself(over there). But when the body moves closer to an object, it can be seen in much greater detail. The seeing travels the object’s contours and takes in the colours and patterns. In the countryside, looking closely at plants happens a lot. During the seeing, “I” thoughts don’t actually arise. And after seeing occurs, thoughts come up saying, “It’s absolutely beautiful.”, “It’s like really ‘seeing’ something for the first time.” Stories really seem to be quieting down.

What is the difference here between something that is not nice and something that is nice – out of story? Is there one?

That’s an interesting question. Thoughts are still doing their thing – maybe out of habit. I see a lot of beauty in nature. I sometimes see this beauty in human activity, and then sometimes the exact opposite. The labels of what is “good” or “bad”, “positive” or “negative”, “useful” or “not useful”, “nice” or “not nice” and so on are applied on a regular basis. I can’t yet see past these labels. Sometimes I can “feel” past these labels though.

Thank you for all your help. I really enjoy working with you.

Love,

Jessica XXXXX

[Sarah7]

Hi Jessica

Thoughts again!!! Thoughts say they want to hold onto this “good feeling”, and say they are “disappointed” when they can not. What I see, feel, think is not permanent. There’s a lot of repetition there, which until now has created an illusion of permanence.

OK well seen – and if the label is not there what then about any experience?

Seeing of ‘other’ things is always happening without labelling. Most of the time, there is no labelling when things are seen.

And is the separation there then - when this happens?

Seeing seems to happen at the object itself(over there).

Do you notice that with eyes open, you see images on a screen, just like computer screen, but edgeless. Can you see something that is not on the screen? The screen is flat – where is the distance out of thought?
Can you draw a line in from seer to seeing and then onto the seen. Are there three distinct 'things' there? Or is there just seeing?

The labels of what is “good” or “bad”, “positive” or “negative”, “useful” or “not useful”, “nice” or “not nice” and so on are applied on a regular basis. I can’t yet see past these labels. Sometimes I can “feel” past these labels though.

Do ‘you’ label? Or does labelling just happen? Do you notice it when labelling takes place?
Labelling may or may not happen – thoughts may bash you and write a story about how you should be able to see past them by now! BUT thoughts have no power to make this happen or not – yes?
So without the labels – how does an experience feel? Without story what is happening?

Thank you for all your help. I really enjoy working with you.

You are welcome and the feeling is mutual! I might not be able to answer tomorrow - I have a 12hr shift - but will try. OK.
Much Love Sarah xxx

[jessica07]

Hi Sarah,

I might not be able to answer tomorrow - I have a 12hr shift - but will try. OK.

That’s okay. :) Just hope that you can get a good rest after working the 12hr shift.

and if the label is not there what then about any experience?

The experience doesn’t disappear without the label. The experience has been there all along.

Seeing of ‘other’ things is always happening without labeling. Most of the time, there is no labeling when things are seen.

And is the separation there then - when this happens?

No, there isn’t.

Do you notice that with eyes open, you see images on a screen, just like computer screen, but edgeless. Can you see something that is not on the screen? The screen is flat – where is the distance out of thought?
Can you draw a line in from seer to seeing and then onto the seen. Are there three distinct 'things' there? Or is there just seeing?

There is just seeing!

Do ‘you’ label? Or does labelling just happen? Do you notice it when labelling takes place?

Labelling just happens. Most of the time I don’t notice it, but sometimes I do!

Labelling may or may not happen – thoughts may bash you and write a story about how you should be able to see past them by now! BUT thoughts have no power to make this happen or not – yes?

I didn’t catch this story yesterday, but I can see it now. “Bash” is a very good word to describe this. Lots of stories are going on that keep “Jessica” alive in thoughts, but they also “bash” Jessica. They bash, and bash, and bash some more.

First it was “messy Jessica” and “angry Jessica”. Now it’s “unenlightened Jessica”. And countless other “Jessica” stories. I could probably write a novel just using all the stories that have been built up in the mind.

But why would thoughts do that? Why would they bash? They definitely don’t do it on purpose!

Recently, the stories of “messy Jessica” became less in frequency. And when they came up they weren’t believed. It was like a “dimmer” switch. But “I” didn’t move the switch. Still there are other stories there, and sometimes they are seen as stories and sometimes not.

“I” am not controlling what happens in the body or in the mind, but who is controlling this? Is there no controller? Is it all just happening?

Yesterday, something happened that would have made me feel angry in the past. Thoughts kept saying “I am angry!” at regular intervals as if on an automatic timer. But these thoughts didn’t have any power, because the body didn’t feel this anger. It was almost as if they were saying something out of habit.

So without the labels – how does an experience feel? Without story what is happening?

I’m not sure yet. I will be looking into how experience feels without labels and stories.

Thanks always and warm wishes. Love,

Jessica XXX

[Sarah7]

Hi Jessica
I snuck an answer! And Im going to repeat myself several times here!

The experience has been there all along.

YES YES YES!!!!! Lovely. See this - notice this!

And is the separation there then - when this happens?

No, there isn’t.

YES YES YES!!!!! Lovely. See this, notice this – let this settle.

There is just seeing!

YES YES YES!!!!! Lovely. See this, notice this – let this settle.

But why would thoughts do that? Why would they bash? They definitely don’t do it on purpose!

First part –is that a thought again!!!!! And second bit? Without the thought - is there a problem? Or a question? Or anything else to sepearate what is? Last bit - No they don’t. So how are thoughts any different from anything else that happens?

Recently, the stories of “messy Jessica” became less in frequency. And when they came up they weren’t believed. It was like a “dimmer” switch. But “I” didn’t move the switch. Still there are other stories there, and sometimes they are seen as stories and sometimes not.

YES YES YES!!!!! Lovely. See this. Last bit – so what? It would only matter to a story thought that forgetting happened – see this for yourself!

“I” am not controlling what happens in the body or in the mind, but who is controlling this? Is there no controller? Is it all just happening?

You answer – see this happening Jessica.

Yesterday, something happened that would have made me feel angry in the past. Thoughts kept saying “I am angry!” at regular intervals as if on an automatic timer. But these thoughts didn’t have any power, because the body didn’t feel this anger. It was almost as if they were saying something out of habit.

YES YES YES!!!!! Lovely.

So without the labels – how does an experience feel? Without story what is happening?

I’m not sure yet. I will be looking into how experience feels without labels and stories.

OK. Keep looking for this!
Much Love Sarah xxx

[jessica07]

Hi Sarah,

I snuck an answer!

Thank you for sneaking an answer!

See this, notice this – let this settle.

Yes, in the process of seeing, noticing, and letting things settle. Right now I feel that I'm practicing seeing and noticing. Well, it is not "I" that is doing this seeing and noticing, but these things are being practiced. It is a different way of seeing reality and it feels like it needs to be practiced. I can't really say much about this yet except that it feels different and freeing. Thoughts arise saying, "It needs to be practiced!", "Seeing can be forgotten, if not practiced" <-- "Those seem like helpful thoughts" said another thought.

See this. Last bit – so what? It would only matter to a story thought that forgetting happened – see this for yourself!

Do you mean a story being believed, and opposed to not believed? When stories are believed seems really quite different from when they are not believed. But what exactly is believing? It is not something that happens in thought. If thoughts say “I am angry”, “I am angry” and that is believed it feels totally different from when it is not believed.

“I” am not controlling what happens in the body or in the mind, but who is controlling this? Is there no controller? Is it all just happening?

You answer – see this happening Jessica.

I am not sure yet but I will be looking into this during the weekend.

So without the labels – how does an experience feel? Without story what is happening?

Still looking into this. I will write more after the weekend.

Have a great weekend! Love,

Jessica XXX

[Sarah7]

Hi Jessica
Lovely weekend?

Yes, in the process of seeing, noticing, and letting things settle. Right now I feel that I'm practicing seeing and noticing. Well, it is not "I" that is doing this seeing and noticing, but these things are being practiced. It is a different way of seeing reality and it feels like it needs to be practiced. I can't really say much about this yet except that it feels different and freeing. Thoughts arise saying, "It needs to be practiced!", "Seeing can be forgotten, if not practiced" <-- "Those seem like helpful thoughts" said another thought.

And is it seen that it doesn’t matter what thoughts say? That they are just another arising or appearance? That they don’t point to anything? Keep looking if not.

Do you mean a story being believed, and opposed to not believed? When stories are believed seems really quite different from when they are not believed. But what exactly is believing? It is not something that happens in thought. If thoughts say “I am angry”, “I am angry” and that is believed it feels totally different from when it is not believed.

OK look at that. What is the difference between story being believed and not believed out of thought?
What says beliefs are MORE than just thought? Another thought? Is that story added to ‘a belief’ so that it feels different? Have a good look. Look underneath thoughts and beliefs and have a good look at the sensation of belief or the feeling of belief. Can you see it striped of story?

I am not sure yet but I will be looking into this during the weekend.

Anything else seen?
Much Love Sarah xxx

[jessica07]

Hi Sarah,

OK look at that. What is the difference between story being believed and not believed out of thought?
What says beliefs are MORE than just thought? Another thought? Is that story added to ‘a belief’ so that it feels different? Have a good look. Look underneath thoughts and beliefs and have a good look at the sensation of belief or the feeling of belief. Can you see it striped of story?

Lots of stories going on here! Story after story after story! And even stories about stories! That was the nature of the last couple of days. The interesting thing though is that when stories are "caught" they seem to quiet down or disappear. But there are so many of them. Or maybe that is a story too. The story being , "Jessica you can't see anything because there are so many stories". Maybe it is just one big story. For the past couple of days stories have been working their magic (wreaking havoc). I'm going to lie down to sleep now and possibly catch some stories.

I can not see belief stripped of story! I can not see anger stripped of story! Stripped of story I don't even know what anger is.

But with the story, it seems that these things are felt. It seems like a BECAUSE type of situation. When there is a BECAUSE it seems that the stories are effective or at least give the illusion of being effective.

I am angry BECAUSE the copy machine is broken again! I am angry BECAUSE that person was a jerk! I am angry BECAUSE '#?!&%*@#"! Sometimes there's lots of cursing going on in thoughts! None of this should matter, and it probably doesn't matter except that these things were not seen as stories at the time that they came up.

Anything else seen?

Yes. The experience stripped of story feels like - the experience! Somehow the feeling is more alive, more able to notice what's going on around. It's quiet inside, but very much a part of everything that is going on. Right now this only happens briefly, but it happens - and it's good! (Yes, good is a label)

Thanks you and have a good evening. Love,

Jessica XXX

[Sarah7]

Hi Jessica

Lots of stories going on here! Story after story after story! And even stories about stories!

But you DO see them! Notice that! AND SMILE!!!!! :)

I can not see belief stripped of story! I can not see anger stripped of story! Stripped of story I don't even know what anger is.

YES!!!!! Exactly – does it exist then????? Belief that is. Are you looking for a thing? An object so thought can go – Oooo look theres belief floating around!

I am angry BECAUSE the copy machine is broken again! I am angry BECAUSE that person was a jerk! I am angry BECAUSE '#?!&%*@#"! Sometimes there's lots of cursing going on in thoughts! None of this should matter, and it probably doesn't matter except that these things were not seen as stories at the time that they came up.

Did ‘you’ make anger come or go? Was any of it cursing included – controlled? Have stories of I shouldn’t have got angry been dumped on top of everything else?

Yes. The experience stripped of story feels like - the experience! Somehow the feeling is more alive, more able to notice what's going on around. It's quiet inside, but very much a part of everything that is going on. Right now this only happens briefly, but it happens - and it's good! (Yes, good is a label)

Lovely. Have you lost this? Has it gone?
Breathe Jessy – Much Love Sarah xxxxx