Looking for someone to lead me home

[Jakobo]

You mean think about it? Like 'What happens if I don't experience a pop?'

Yup, exactly. But when reading your response I started wondering if it’s worth posing all these questions or if it’s just better to leave everything aside and just be present with the fact that there’s no self to be found. Oh god, I feel I’m overdoing it all…

What can either live a 'blah' life or a perfect life? What would do that?

So, there’s only ‘life’ being played out through the form called ‘Jakob’. But from the reference point called ‘Jakob’ there is the filter making it look like a blah life, or a wonderful life. Depending.

Are you a human with conditioning?

I just wrote that there's only 'life', or regarding me, one reference point of life. But I don’t know. I’m too tired to think at the moment. What is a human? How do you define a human? There is conditioning though, although that may not be the whole answer to why a person act like they do in a certain moment.

Yes, what is the point of all these thoughts? What can be achieved?

It’s the mind thinking it can think it’s way to realization. That there is a correct answer. A 2 + 2 answer.

Jakob

[Xain]

This 'pop' that is expected. Can you describe it?

if it’s just better to leave everything aside and just be present with the fact that there’s no self to be found.

Can you do that?

There is conditioning though

How does 'conditioning' appear to you right now in your experience?

It’s the mind thinking it can think it’s way to realization.

Realization of what?
What can be further realized than what has already been realised?

Xain ♥

[Jakobo]

This 'pop' that is expected. Can you describe it?

Well, I guess that what is expected to happen is that the seeking-energy will subside. Having that running all the time is really draining. Plus there is an expectation/wanting to close the gap from when a thought occurs till it’s realized for what it is. At the moment that gap is very big.

if it’s just better to leave everything aside and just be present with the fact that there’s no self to be found.
Can you do that?

There’s no-one to be present, but I guess it’s better to just acknowledge the presence that already is than to start analyzing thoughts.

How does 'conditioning' appear to you right now in your experience?

Right now thoughts appear that are following a reoccurring pattern. I’ve seen many of the thoughts appearing right now before…

Realization of what?
What can be further realized than what has already been realised?

I really don’t know. Maybe it’s just a matter of time. To just let everything sink in.

Thank you!
Jakob

[Xain]

The conversation appears to be drifting from the realisation that 'I' is a thought and that there is no separate self to be found, to unfulfilled expectations and how they can be met.

But the flip side of my expectations that are equally big as the expectations themselves are the fear that all this will not come true.

Operating in the opposite direction, this statement points to the belief that there is currently someone, an 'I'/'me' that 'doesn't have it' at the moment, and the belief that there is something to gain in the future, and someone there to 'get it'.

Please for the moment put all expectations aside. All this conversation and my guiding will aim to do, is to make the realisation that there is no separate 'I', 'me' here.
What this will then mean, cannot be estimated. What will be experienced, or how life will be like 'afterwards' cannot be guessed at. If nothing else, the realisation will mean the end of 'the seeker'.
If there are particularly strong expectations operating, they may make realisation difficult or impossible - Or may give feelings of disappointment if some 'state' doesn't materialise or a particular feeling is not experienced.

Is it clear that there is 'no-one' to gain anything in the future? No-one to change or fix?

Plus there is an expectation/wanting to close the gap from when a thought occurs till it’s realized for what it is. At the moment that gap is very big.

What would need to change and who would be doing it?

As mentioned, addressing unfulfilled expectations is not what we do here - Merely guide someone to a realisation . . . and not even that, as there is no-one to realise this.

Xain ♥

[Jakobo]

Hi Xain!

The conversation appears to be drifting from the realisation that 'I' is a thought and that there is no separate self to be found, to unfulfilled expectations and how they can be met.

I think you are absolutely right in your observation. At the moment I just feel I come up blank with it all. I feel you have given me all the necessary pointers to fully realize that there is no separate I, but still the vast majority of the time the belief in a separate I is there.

If it’s ok with you I think I want to take a momentary break from this. At the moment I feel very unfocused.

As always I really appreciate the time you take in guiding me!!

Jakob

[Xain]

Hi again Jakob

Sure. This conversation is completely open, and I am fine to continue to try to assist you.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask them.

Be aware, though, that your own self-enquiry is important here. If you think or write 'I want', or 'I will experience' or 'I will change' . . . I will ask you what you are referring to with these statements.
This is simply my approach as a guide to get you to realise the truth of what is going on for yourself.

Xain ♥

[Jakobo]

Hi Xain!

The break became far longer than I had in mind. I somehow thought that I could manage on my own, and for some reason later on found myself avoiding this forum.
But I realized the importance of keeping it all up and checking in regularly to keep on track. It just got really frustrating in the end just feeling that I kept going in circles.

Anyway I feel I want to keep going now but was thinking that I might to continue with another guide as I think it might be beneficial to basically hear the same thing but with other words. I am really grateful for the time and effort you taken to guide me, it has been really beneficial!

So, thank you!!

Warm regards
Jakob

[Xain]

Sure, Jakob. That's fine.
What I will do is ask another guide who is free to take over from this point.

Xain ♥

[Jakobo]

Perfect!

Thank you once again for all your time and effort! :)

[otterrivers]

Hi guys. I'll take over. I will read the whole conversation some time but for now I want to start fresh. Uninfluenced by what was previously said.

[otterrivers]

So for now Jacob please tell me where you are at with all of this. Can you please give me a brief history of your "spiritual journey"? And what has lead you to look for a guide? What results are you hoping for from speaking with a guide? What are your expectations that have not been fulfilled thus far? (My name is otter. Nice to meet you. My name is josh on my I.D. Lol but my friends and family call me otter.)

[Jakobo]

Nice to meet you (I’ll go with otter then if that’s fine? You know what they say – a dear child has many names lol :)).

Well basically for as long as I can remember I’ve had the feeling that there is something we humans are not getting. I mean, it can’t be meant that we are supposed to constantly feel insecure, fight with our neighbors, kill other humans or destroying the environment. Animals pretty much seem to be at peace but not humans. I’ve always felt that’s a clue.

But I started becoming more ‘spiritual’ about 7-8 years ago and the last couple of years I’ve read and listened a lot to non-dual teachings as they felt the most true to me. Teachings from Adyashanti, Mooji, Gangaji, Jeff Foster and many more. But I’ve never got any more than a temporary and fleeting peace from any teaching. And I guess that that is what I am looking for – peace! For many years I’ve had this really strong seeking energy, never really being content with where I am. What I want is to be able to let life unfold on its own without having the feeling that I have to interfere and control it – from experience I can tell that that causes suffering lol :-)

My conversation with Xain gave me a lot and there were moments when things felt clearer. But at the moment all I can say is that I have an intellectual understanding of no-self - I’m not living that understanding.

Thank you for your help!
Jakob

[otterrivers]

When you find this temporary peace, what is it that triggers it? And when the peace ends, what is it that causes it to end?

[Jakobo]

The peace can be triggered when meditating or when listening to for example Adyashanti. But it can also appear more spontaneously on its own at any given moment and are at those times often more ordinary and profound at the same time.

What causes the peace to end I would say is often the fear of it ending. There’s this grasping and wanting to hold on to the peace – to control it. That of course is never successful but only ever causes stress. But knowing this dosn't mean I don't keep repeating the pattern...

[otterrivers]

Yes but when meditating or listening to talks what is it about that that causes the peace? What exactly happens?