Guidance please Delma

[Delma]

Hi Trent,

More good questions. A lot of people get stuck exactly where you are. It's because the tendency is to try to explain this and fit it into a framework. Here's what's important. There are now two perspectives going on.... in one, there is no self whatsoever, and in the other, the 'sense of self' appears to be lived from. Of course, now you've seen that the sense of self is just thought and actually doesn't exist at all. So then what? What is looking?

Spirituality would say consciousness.
Science would say the brain.

But is either one provable? What this process is about is trusting only direct experience, and separating *what is learned through society* from what is actually witnessed. The question you need to always pose is, "What is true *IN MY DIRECT EXPERIENCE" and trust just that, because that's the only thing not 'learned'.

So right now, where is the brain if you don't fall back on learned concepts? And where is consciousness?

:)

Delma

[Delma]

Hi Trent


What's happening with inquiry? Still willing to finalize this?



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[Trent]

Delma wrote: So right now, where is the brain if you don't fall back on learned concepts? And where is consciousness?

Hi Delma,
Sorry for the delay, I had to fly cross country to deal with family stuff.
Even though I haven't posted, believe me, this inquiry is quite in the forefront for me.
Thanks for that post about brain/consciousness, really helpful as usual. So, without relying on learned concepts, I can't find a thing that says "hey it's me your brain and I'm running this shabang." The same goes for consciousness. Just lookingness is happening. Very interesting, I've noticed while going through this family challenge, being back home in the house I grew up in, faced with family and history etc..., that there is now this ground of stability or fearlessness or something I can't quite put my finger on. I'm not saying no fears come up, or I'm not getting triggered here with family, but there's this absence of something. Everything looks different, but it doesn't. Difficult to explain.
I'm having to make decisions and deal with things here, but there's definitely a lack of the usual anxiety. It seems that quite a few thought streams have been "dumped". I don't think I "popped", but it's like some layers of the onion have been burned away without having to do a whole heck of a lot about it. Interesting.
:) Trent

[Delma]

Hi Trent.

Thanks for writing back in the midst of some challenges. That's usually a trigger for lots of me thoughts, and so it's really terrific that the seeing through still happened during this time.

A question I have for you when you have time.

What do you think a pop should look like? And why don't you think the 'you' has popped?

Thanks,
Delma

[Trent]

Thanks for writing back in the midst of some challenges. That's usually a trigger for lots of me thoughts, and so it's really terrific that the seeing through still happened during this time.

Triggers definitely happening here around family stuff. Funny, quicker to anger since starting the looking. Maybe Mr. Niceguy is finally disappearing.

What do you think a pop should look like? And why don't you think the 'you' has popped?

There's the fantasy of having a mind blowing, kundalini kinda thing, ya know, like in the books. I think I read on your blog about your own experience, pretty trippy.
I don't think the "me" has popped because there isn't a me here to do the popping ; )
Things are very ordinary it seems. Not that that's bad, not at all.
Still ego games popping up, desires, etc... Just a product of 40+ years of conditioning and grooves made in this brain.
G'nite,
Trent

[Delma]

Yep. There's no Niceguy self to live up to. Nice, isn't it?

Something you should know is that this is just a first step. You might be interested in reading this, as it is really very, very good and explains some things about what to expect next. Don't bother about my blog and the realizations, because the stuff you've just read about happened about a year after the initial pop. This is a process and this step is one HUGE one, but it sort of 'opens the door' for a LOT more.

http://liberationunleashed.com/LU_FAQ.html

After reading, let me know if you have any questions.

Do you think you might be ready for the confirmation questions?

Delma

[Trent]

Yep. There's no Niceguy self to live up to. Nice, isn't it?

Nice indeed.

http://liberationunleashed.com/LU_FAQ.html

Yes yes, read before I started this with you, but good to review. No questions as of now.

Do you think you might be ready for the confirmation questions?

Ready to go for it. I'm sure if anything comes out wonky, we'll get it straightened out.
Best,
Trent

[Delma]

Alright!

Let's give it a shot. I think we've covered quite a lot here in this thread. So.... here we go! Please answer in as much detail as you possibly can. This is likely the only way we'll be able to uncover anything we need to go over as the questions are designed to ferret it out. Its secondary function is confirmation so that you can help guide others should you choose. I'd encourage it, actually, as it's the best way to keep the inquiry going. It's actually extremely helpful to the guide.

Ok, to the questions:


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?



2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.



3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.



4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?



5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.



6) Anything to add?
.

Thanks, Trent!

Delma

[Trent]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No there never was one, although for about 40+ years it seemed real and the center of "my" universe.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of separate self is a belief. I think it started in early life when the big people start calling this a name, the first things that belong to this entity are parents, toys, etc... training this fledgling self. Wiring in the body/brain is happening, there's a them and a me, and how this me is, in regards to them. The self forms as a combination of beliefs, memories, the physical image, felt sensations, preferences...all belonging to a "Trent". This persona seemingly formed as a way to deal with the world. Something to defend, to inflate, to protect and perfect...to relate to all the other fictional characters out there.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I was looking at my first posts earlier today, and wow, I thought I understood where this was going, but um, no.
To see this is so anti climactic, I mean, everything is the same (and I've read past conversations where guides warn that nothing changes, but I didn't grok it)...yet the experience of it is quite different. Feelings and triggers still happen, and seem in a way more raw and immediate...preferences still happen. Less regard for what "they" think out there, less need to "protect" the "others" with the nice guy routine. Not sure if I'm explaining this well, I'm no writer. I've been here at my family home in the country, so, lots of walks in nature and in the woods, in silence. It's as though there are moments of experiencing what's in front of me, as part of me, no separation, like, there's not the inherent sense of a me, then a wall of a me that I look through, then the view in front of me. It's just all of it now at once here. Again, that raw sensation, heart beats faster with the realization of it. There's also a calmness, an ability to just deal with things as they arise, without the incessant thought stream, the judgements, the indecision. Just doing what needs to be done, i.e. doing the dishes, cleaning out closets, caring for my mother. Or more accurately, the thoughts are still flowing, but there's not the hooking into them or the stewing over them.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Not sure I can pin that down. As I mentioned in past posts, I kinda expected a burning bush sort of awakening, but it's been more of a slow burn. Just a wearing down of the "selfing" mechanism. A couple things that were super helpful were the posts we had about brain and consciousness. That these are learned concepts and still don't reveal an actual self. Also I would notice during moments of looking inside, in the darkness, for a me, not finding it, and reminding "myself" that this also means no "me" is looking for a "me".

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

Yikes, no. Body/brain just does what the heck it wants to do, is moved to do. There was so much indoctrination here about "I" create "my" reality, intention and goal setting, visualizing, so many self improvement techniques to nudge life towards certain outcomes to avoid certain feelings, experiences. There's absolutely no interest in that stuff...pretty astonishing. Just seems like a lot of whooey, so misleading, although my past teachers meant well. Wow, seems to totally miss the mark. A waste of time to to think a fictional character can "do" or "create" anything. As I mentioned earlier, being here at home, helping out my Mom, I notice, "that needs to be cleaned", "food needs to be prepared", and it happens, body/brain work together, and things get done. No need for any of it to refer to or mean anything at all about "Trent".

6) Anything to add?

Nothing to add, except the overflowing gratitude here for you Delma, for your time and care, pretty much every single day for over a month. What a service you provide...very humbled over here ;) .
Thanks so much, lemme know if any of it is "off"
Hugs, "Trent"

[Delma]

Trent!

This is so beautiful. I'm glad we took the time to go through everything that has popped up. More will pop up always, but with just a look... a noticing... the truth is plain to see.

I'm going to post this for other guides to take a look at. It's good to have others review to see whether there's anything we've left out.

Thanks so much. It's hard to explain, but this process... guiding... it's just joyful when the two people coming into it are ready and open.

I'm traveling today, but will be checking in with you.

Enjoy your day!

Much love,

Delma

[Trent]

Delma,
I'm traveling as well, and will check in. Looking forward to any feed back from the other guides.
And yes, no words here either for what this has meant...
Much love and affection here too!
T