The Gate

Hi Rob,

No "i" anywhere.

Cool!

On 30th March you said

There is no "i" seems at about 85%. Breathing for example seems like a rob thing

Is this so? Is a self needed for breathing to happen, or does breathing continue even without thinking about it? What about when you are asleep?

Try the labeling/unlabeling exercise again, but this time with a twist in the tail. As you saw before this is an experiential exercise not a thinking exercise!
Choose any object, a cup, a pen or whatever. Pick it up, look at it and notice the mind automatically labeling it. Also notice the values, memories, thoughts, feelings and so on associated with those labels. Now, continuing to look at the object, let the labels fall away, let them subside. If you notice more labels take them off one by one. Sit for a while with this object that is now without name or label and write back with what you notice.

You can play the unlabelling game with anything, cup, pen, tree, cloud... then turn it around 180 degrees and look at your labels.
Write back with what you find,
Ray.

Hi Ray.

Is a self needed for breathing to happen, or does breathing continue even without thinking about it?

Breathing does not need a self to happen. Breathing happens.

Choose any object, a cup, a pen or whatever. Pick it up, look at it and notice the mind automatically labeling it. Also notice the values, memories, thoughts, feelings and so on associated with those labels. Now, continuing to look at the object, let the labels fall away, let them subside. If you notice more labels take them off one by one. Sit for a while with this object that is now without name or label and write back with what you notice.

The word used the other day was "nothing" Without labels it's a nothing. Without expectations,values, memories, thoughts etc. everything is a nothing.

then turn it around 180 degrees and look at your labels.

The something is still a nothing with imposed labels. Don't know how else to write about this. Take care. Rob

Hi Rob,

Choose any object, a cup, a pen or whatever. Pick it up, look at it and notice the mind automatically labeling it. Also notice the values, memories, thoughts, feelings and so on associated with those labels. Now, continuing to look at the object, let the labels fall away, let them subside. If you notice more labels take them off one by one. Sit for a while with this object that is now without name or label and write back with what you notice.

The word used the other day was "nothing" Without labels it's a nothing. Without expectations,values, memories, thoughts etc. everything is a nothing.

ray wrote:then turn it around 180 degrees and look at your labels.

The something is still a nothing with imposed labels. Don't know how else to write about this.

In your earlier post you described this as "experiencing a deep meditative kind of nothing-ness" . I rather like that description! Having stripped the word labels off it's kinda difficult to describe :)
Now then, is there any separation between the "external" mysterious nothing-ness and the rob-blob mysterious nothing-ness? This is really an innocent way to look.

When looking in that perspective what is looking? What is left?
Sit with this and tell me what you see.

Ray

Hi Ray.

Now then, is there any separation between the "external" mysterious nothing-ness and the rob-blob mysterious nothing-ness? This is really an innocent way to look.

There is no "external" no mysterious, no rob-blob. Without labels , there's just... nothing. Or with reference to looking, experience happening.

When looking in that perspective what is looking? What is left?

Experience happening. Or just experience. Or is-ness. Or shit happening. ? Thanks. Rob.

Hi Rob,

So have you clearly seen through the illusion of separate self?

1)Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?


All the best,
Ray.

Hi Ray.

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No self. no me, no I. Ever. Thanks. Rob

How does it feel to see this (that there is no separate self)? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Ray

Hi Ray.

How does it feel to see this (that there is no separate self)? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Before LU there was searching, life's woundedness, control, major judgements. Now..there's just now. Viewing. Must admit that it all seems a little weird. For example. No job, very little money, just lost business opportunity, wife's planning and thinking like crazy. Worrying. And ??? It is all different labels, when rendered down equal nothing, or life-ing. What's planning? What's expectations? What's the purpose? Weird is speaking to "another" that nothing is or matters. This is a new type of flat.(for lack of a better word) Really don't know what to say, or care. Rob

Hi Rob,
Feeling real sympathy here for your life circumstances.
A couple of questions,
You mention the word flat. What is flat, is there confidence in awareness, seeing, connectedness?
Is there some expectation for this process that hasn't been met?

Let's look at that, then shak we continue with the closing questions?

Walking with you,
Love
Ray

Hi Ray.

is there confidence in awareness, seeing, connectedness?

Yes, absolutely.

What is flat

and

Is there some expectation for this process that hasn't been met?

Flat is no expectations. No leaning towards consolations (good stuff) or pulling away from desolations (bad stuff). The center. Of course center is a relative term.

Feeling real sympathy here for your life circumstances.

Thanks, however it really doesn't matter. Without any labels all of life is only experience. On a personal note. Thursday, a job idea collapsed. "i" let it go. No expectations. No control. On Friday a new direction for the same idea arose. There's a meeting on Monday with a new company to supply a raw component that's needed for the business idea. Go figure.

Let's look at that, then shak we continue with the closing questions?

There was thoughts about "closing questions" last night. Before LU some of the labels to complete the process might have been: completion, graduation , acceptance into a "group", status, ie. "i" know something. None of those labels matter today.

Walking with you,

Truly grateful Ray. Thanks. Rob P.S. I'll respond to your personal message.

Hi Rob,
Thanks for the reply, that clears things up nicely.

What is your response to these,

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?


Warmly,
Ray

Hi Ray. Good morning.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is

This part of the question kind of answers itself. And as for "explain in detail"...simple doesn't need detail. Websters dictionary says: illusion; deceptive appearance, statement or belief.

when it starts and how it works from your own experience

Kind of spoke of this already.... baby on floor wanting toy.

Describe it fully as you see it now.

No false "i". Only a homogeneous one-ness. Jello bowl called universe.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look

Spoke of this before as well. However, "looking" was more focused when triggers for anger where present. At least for "me". Thanks. Rob P.S. The phrase "thank-you". Now that's something to explain in detail. (haha) Blessings always.

Hi Rob,
Thanks for replying.
What comes up for this question.


in what ways has Seeing changed 'your' life? What impact will this have on your life?

If you like I'll see if the other guides have any more questions to clarify things for you.

Blessings, Ray

Hi Ray.

in what ways has Seeing changed 'your' life

At present, looking, reviewing, thinking about: past stuff, drama, emotional hurts is only just experience. It's like it doesn't matter. The body has/ is having moments of energy surges, or processing, or integration. ?? There's observations in communication, or reading, or TV that suggest an almost universal belief in a false"i". There's an element of frustration with that universal false "i". Why??? To say that "my" experience at present is absolute peace would be a lie. However, there's really no expectations except to "be" present to the moment. Sometimes not easy. But in many ways life has not changed at all. Still must eat, use washroom, and sleep, etc.

What impact will this have on your life?

Feels like the beginning of "real" truth. Like a foundation to build upon. Or more accurate; to integrate into. To share an opinion: it feels that nothing is as important as this understanding of false "i". And there's no sense of rushing to "get" that understanding. A way out-there thought would be: the very purpose of the earth and the "bodies" that walk upon it's surface is to present a physical "place" to accommodate an understanding in awareness that there is no separation. Is that truth?, have no idea. Just sharing. What way will it impact "my" life? Somehow to help in the false "i" understanding.

If you like I'll see if the other guides have any more questions to clarify things for you.

Sounds great. Take care. Rob

Hi Rob,

I'm really pleased to welcome you to LU.

One of our admins will contact you soon by PM. You will change to blue on this forum and another area "Unleashed" will be available.
You'll also be invited to our facebook groups where most of our activity takes place. There are discussion groups, an aftercare group for those freshly through the "Gate" and other groups.

It's been a great pleasure to work with you. :)

All the best,
Ray