Looking for a guide

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laulund
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby laulund » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:44 pm

HI Perrry,
What does the term 'universal consciousness' point to? Is this an aspect of direct experience?
By universal consciousness i simple mean consciousness that is not owned by anyone, not owned by an "I".
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

Are you able to describe this more in terms of direct experience? I realize the 'when it starts' is question is hard to answer entirely from experience (unless you have a particularly good memory) but can you say anything about how the illusion was working in recent experience? What is it like to be taken in by the illusion? How did the illusion persist, what patterns/mechanisms kept the illusion alive?
As long as i remember i have believed that i was in control of my own decisions and thoughts. That I was the one who took the decisions. What i have realized is that i can not from direct experience say that this is truth. What i can see from direct experience is that thoughts arise out of nowhere by them self, effortlessly. All actions in life, is simple an extension of thoughts. First come the though, then the action. The illusion of an "I" must have started in the moment that i got the thought that "I" was the one who was in control of the thought and actions. That i was my thought. That i was the thought. The illusion was trying to persist by claiming that at least there most be an individual awareness that is experience all this. However what i found that this idea about individuality is just another thought, the thought of "I AM" that arises by itself. I guess the language plays a big role in keeping the illusion alive. From moment i as a baby opened my eyes, people has pointed at me as said "you" again and again.

Regards
Henrik

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perrym
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby perrym » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:04 pm

Hi Henrik,

Thanks for that, much clearer now!

I'll get back to you if/when other guides have anything to add,

x
Perry

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perrym
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby perrym » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:47 pm

Hi Henrik,
The idea about a separate "self" and "I","Me" is really just a thought created by the universal consciousness which arise in the mind/intellect. The sense of I comes from the the individual mind thinking that the awareness and thought is created by it self.
When you say 'individual mind/intellect', what does this mean in experience?

x
Perry

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laulund
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby laulund » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:34 am

Hi Perry,

By individual mind i mean that part of the universal mind in which all the memories of experiences from my individual body/sense organs is being stored.

Regards
Henrik

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perrym
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby perrym » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:23 pm

Hello again Henrik,

Thanks for that ....

.... and some more follow-up questions from other guides! They are very thorough :-)
By individual mind i mean that part of the universal mind in which all the memories of experiences from my individual body/sense organs is being stored.
Does 'universal mind' have parts, in direct experience (sense experience, feelings, observed thoughts), or is this a deduction / thought?

Can you express what 'my individual body/sense organs' means in terms of direct Experience?

Is 'my individual body/sense organs' owned? If so, by what/whom?
The sense of I comes from the the individual mind thinking that the awareness and thought is created by it self.
Is 'the individual mind' the same as an I or me, or is it something you are assuming to explain the universe of awareness and mind?

x
Perry

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laulund
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby laulund » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:34 am

Hi Perry,

Ok.
Does 'universal mind' have parts, in direct experience (sense experience, feelings, observed thoughts), or is this a deduction / thought?
No not i direct experience. Its an assumption. However i know that my memories get stored somewhere and its easier for me than others to access those memories.
Can you express what 'my individual body/sense organs' means in terms of direct Experience?
It is the body and sense organs that is experienced by the what we call "me".
Is 'my individual body/sense organs' owned? If so, by what/whom?
Not in reality, but we assume it in our language.
Is 'the individual mind' the same as an I or me, or is it something you are assuming to explain the universe of awareness and mind?
The "I" or "me" is a thought arising in the mind. I guess it is part of the individual mind.

Regards
Henrik

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perrym
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby perrym » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:03 pm

Hi Henrik,

Some more input from other guides:
However i know that my memories get stored somewhere and its easier for me than others to access those memories.
It is really important that we stick to Direct Experience ('DE') here, rather than abstractions...

So what is 'my memories' in DE? Are there any memories in DE?
The "I" or "me" is a thought arising in the mind. I guess it is part of the individual mind.
We don't "guess" here :-)

Can a mind and an individual mind be found in direct experience?

x
Perry

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laulund
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby laulund » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:09 pm

Hi,
It is really important that we stick to Direct Experience ('DE') here, rather than abstractions...

So what is 'my memories' in DE? Are there any memories in DE?
Well it depends on how we define direct experience. If i look at a cup and afterwards close the eyes and recall the cup then i can see the cup as past memory. Is it direct experience? The memory of the cup is definately experienced all though it is a thought. The the picture of the cup was there, but the cup was not.
Can a mind and an individual mind be found in direct experience?
Again it depends if you define thoughts as real or unreal.

Regards
Henrik

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perrym
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby perrym » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:20 am

Hi Henrik,

Yes, the memory or the cup is experienced as a thought - so memories are simply thoughts, yes?
it depends if you define thoughts as real or unreal
Let's go back over some old ground....

Generally, if we say 'real' here, we mean what can be found in direct experience ... We've discussed this before, but for a fresh angle, could you take a look at this short intro? It is by Cosmik, one of the guides here.

So are thoughts real? Well, yes, thoughts themselves are real, observed thoughts are a component of direct experience (as with 'memories' above) .... but the content of thought, the labels used in thinking, well, they may or may not point to something real... Early on in our discussion we distinguished the different kinds of labels that thought can use ... labels that point to direct experience ('the taste in my mouth'), labels that point to an abstraction / composite of experiences ('the internet') and labels that point to nothing ('Santa Claus').

So.... to come back to earlier points:
The "I" or "me" is a thought arising in the mind. I guess it is part of the individual mind.
We don't "guess" here :-)
Can a mind and an individual mind be found in direct experience?
Look carefully at what you mean by 'mind' and 'individual mind' ... what do these labels point to? Is 'mind' something that can be found in direct experience?

x
Perry

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laulund
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby laulund » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:54 pm

Hi Perry,
Look carefully at what you mean by 'mind' and 'individual mind' ... what do these labels point to? Is 'mind' something that can be found in direct experience?
The word "mind" is a label that points towards all the thoughts that we experience.

Regards
Henrik

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perrym
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby perrym » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:28 am

Hi Henrik,
The word "mind" is a label that points towards all the thoughts that we experience.
So "mind" cannot be found in immediate experience, it is just a conventional label like "the weather", yes? A kind of shorthand meaning 'all the thoughts'?

Ok, that make sense, but then, when you say:
The "I" or "me" is a thought arising in the mind. I guess it is part of the individual mind.
.... here "mind" seems to be something more substantial, like an entity in which thoughts happen....

I'm not trying to trip you up on language, but just seeing whether you believe there is a really existing "mind" ... perhaps "I" am this "mind" in which thoughts arise?

x
Perry

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laulund
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby laulund » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:52 am

Hi Perry,
I'm not trying to trip you up on language, but just seeing whether you believe there is a really existing "mind" ... perhaps "I" am this "mind" in which thoughts arise?
Well as I said, the word "mind" is really a label. There is however thoughts which arises in consciousness and there is memories which is thoughts about past experiences. Where these memories get stored, i can not tell from direct experience, but i know they are there because they can be accessed. I don't know if they have any location in reality. I

Regards
Henrik

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perrym
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby perrym » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:20 pm

Hi Henrik,

Thanks, that is clear!

So does Henrik, the character, the guy with a history, exist? If so, in what way? If not, what's left?

x
Perry

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laulund
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby laulund » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:05 am

Hi Perry,
So does Henrik, the character, the guy with a history, exist? If so, in what way? If not, what's left?
The character Henrik is as a label for a body, mind and awareness with a history. Its a thought or a word that point to that.

Regards,
Henrik

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perrym
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby perrym » Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:34 pm

Hi Henrik,

What is left?

Regards

Perry


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