The Gate

Wonderful Sid!! My apologies for having been away for a bit, as I had to go out of town urgently and wasn't able to be on the computer and catch up until today.

I took some time to see this. I realized that this is it. There is nothing more to seek at all. Yes , there is no self and it is life expressing itself everywhere. There was feeling of liberation today - liberation from the illusion of self. I see that now.I guess I had some expectation of oneness and stuff as i pointed out before . But the truth is - there is no 'me' at all and it was simple to grasp . I guess that where the difficult was.

Feeling of oneness is a state, not a permanent state. Just like sadness, happiness, laughter and the rest of it, the feeling of oneness also sometimes appears, and then disappears. If you have never experienced that feeling, that does not mean you "should have" or that you won't. As all the belief structures that are built up around the illusory "me" begin to crumble and fall apart, you may experience a feeling of wholeness or "oneness", or it may become clear that you have always already known this and it may just be a very quiet and un-eventful shift in perception (which is how you've reported it to me) - there is no "right" or "wrong" way about this, the thoughts will continue to say "me" and you will continue to see that they point to no one in reality.

It's a beginning, not an end. :) Experience will continue to be lived through the apparent "you", and thought will continue to challenge this seeing, but once seen, it can't be unseen. And thought will begin to reveal itself for what it is.

If there is any remaining confusion, we will find it in the final questions. So I will pass those off to you now, if you're still feeling ready?

Much love,
Sunni

Hey Sunni!
Yes. I am ready for the final questions.

Great Sid, here we go... :)

1) Is there a 'me' or 'you' or 'I' , at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever? Can there ever be?


2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.


3) How does it FEEL to See? describe in detail.


4) How would you describe the illusion of the separate self to somebody who was interested about it?


5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? explain the transformation/recognition.


6) describe the difference before seeing, at the moment of seeing, and after seeing? describe the key differences.


7) in what ways has Seeing changed 'your' life? what impact will this have on your life?


8) do you have any comments about my guiding, what you feel was effective/ineffective, and something that you would have liked to have seen in it?

*Cracks Knuckles and flex muscles* Here goes....

1) Is there a 'me' or 'you' or 'I' , at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever? Can there ever be?

No! There is no 'me' or 'you' at all. It never existed in anyway or any shape or form . There was never any 'me' nor will they ever be. The 'me' is believed to exist when the thoughts about it are believed.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

Well , when we are born and are experiencing oneself as a baby , there was no illusion of seperation. However as we grow up, we identify ourself with our names, body and so and so identities - basically anything which are not. This leads to illusion of separate self which is strongly believed . Lot of effort and struggle occurs in order to preserve this separate self which is believed to be existed.

3) How does it FEEL to See? describe in detail.

Hmm .How does it feel to see. Its is freeing to see that there is no self at all. I feel liberated from this illusion of no self. Life feels easier since I no longer had to defend and bother about this 'me' stuff. Also , I can see that these are just basic , obvious stuff and isn't really spiritual. No big deal is made about this seeing stuff. It just is. Nothing more.

4) How would you describe the illusion of the separate self to somebody who was interested about it?

Ah! Interesting question. I imagine the conversation to go like this...

'Well ! Can you tell me if there is any 'me' at all. If yes, Show it to me where it is. You see, you have identified yourself as the body . But you are not the body. Body is just a body. There is no 'me' found anywhere in the body - in the arms , legs , face etc.
What about thoughts? There is no 'me' at all in it. .They are just responses to the situation you are experiencing. They also include content about past and future. But ultimately , they are just thoughts and are not impregnated with truth at all regardless of their content. There is no me in thoughts at all . They just seem to refer to a 'me' which doesn't exist.
What about feeling? They just occur and experienced in the body. Then thoughts about the feelings occur and mind made up stories which places the feelings in the story of 'me' occurs. However , they are just thoughts that interprets the feelings.Ultimately ,feelings are just feelings - nothing more.
What about mind? Mind is just a label for bunch of thoughts and thought patterns that sometimes occuring in a sequence . You are not the mind as you are not the thoughts.
Now , lets consider the process of seeing , hearing , tasting etc . In the process of seeing , the light waves hits the retina , brain interprets it and and whole process of seeing is completed. . This doesn't require a seer at all. Seeing just happenson its own . There is no 'me' seeing at all.
Similarly hearing happens on its own. There is no hearer.
Smelling happens on its own. There is no smeller.

Thinking Happens on its own . There is no thinker .

Everything is happening on its own. There is no self that is doing all this stuff. These just happen. Life is just happening on its own. There is no 'me' that is controlling this. The ' me' is ultimately just a belief , just a thought. It seems to exist only when the 'me thoughts are believed. Otherwise it never does exist.

Happy version of the conversation ends up in both of us doing chicken dance.:P

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? explain the transformation/recognition.

It was very gradual. No big specific moment here. Boring stuff really. However the realization that the thoughts contain no reality at all and are ultimately just thoughts did push the process of seeing. Also, dropping the false expectations of awakening helped a lot.

6) describe the difference before seeing, at the moment of seeing, and after seeing? describe the key differences.

Before seeing - I am this and that... blah blah blah.... must defend 'me' . Doing loads of stuff to uphold this sense of self. Some suffering and similar stuff. Decides to see what spirituality is about .

Moment of seeing - There was no specific moment as such as the seeing process of seeing was gradual. However the times I was seeing , I could see that there was no 'me' and it was life expressing itself in various forms. It was nice.

After seeing - There is no more attachment to the sense of self , the story of this 'sid' ,etc. There is no 'sid' . This is seen and life just continues.

) in what ways has Seeing changed 'your' life? what impact will this have on your life?

Seeing has changed my life and not really changed my life. There is no longer attachment to sense of self. Once the illusion of me i seen , it makes a difference. Your perspective changes. But otherwise , nothing really changes. Its like that movie where you expect a an awesome climax with special effects and then nothing really happens.Same old story continues. But the character of the story isn't same anymore.

8) do you have any comments about my guiding, what you feel was effective/ineffective, and something that you would have liked to have seen in it?

Nah! You were perfect , sunni! You asked all the right questions. You have been a wonderful guide and I am grateful for that. Thanks!

Hey Sunni!
Here is one thing I like to clarify. I guess I understand this but I need clarify this anyway . I need this to put into words .Ultimately , there is no control and life is just happening .Where does responsibility come in ? Can person act responsibily? Can a person be responsible for his or her action , happiness , wellbeing etc? ( i know there is no 'me' that is responsible) . Is responsibility compatible with all this .

Haha (the cracks knuckles comment) ;)

Excellent Sid, thank you for your answers! I will just pass these on to be checked/confirmed by other guides to see if there are any remaining questions we have for you.

I am glad you spoke up with the residual un-resolved clarity on "responsibility" as there is definitely an "I" thought hiding in there. :) I will not give answers, but rather let you answer the question in direct experience: IS there a person who can be responsible or act responsibly? Can a person be responsible for his or her own actions, happiness, well-being?

Knowing there is no "me" or "person" to be found, what does responsibility appear as? Check this.
I know what you are getting at, that if there is no self doing it, then what's to keep someone from not going off the deep-end and making "bad" choices, etc. Right? And my answer to that would be a question: what's to keep them from NOT taking care of their life and making "good" choices? Was there EVER, ANYTHING there that was "responsible" making good choices and taking care of this or that?? Check this too.

Is there any control or free will whatsoever besides as thoughts? (which as you said very clearly have empty content)

Much love,
Sunni

One more question as a follow up, which is equally important:

Now that you see there is no "me", do you find "others"? Can there be "others" (that which is separate from you in any way shape or form)?

Now that you see there is no "me", do you find "others"? Can there be "others" (that which is separate from you in any way shape or form)?

Nope! No 'others 'at all .

Hey Sunni!

IS there a person who can be responsible or act responsibly?

No ,there isn't .

Knowing there is no "me" or "person" to be found, what does responsibility appear as?

Responsibility appears as a bunch of thoughts which sometimes appear as a decision.

Was there EVER, ANYTHING there that was "responsible" making good choices and taking care of this or that??

No. They just don't seem to be anything that was responsible making good choices.

what's to keep them from NOT taking care of their life and making "good" choices?

I don't know. I guess identification of self and ego stuff keeps them from not taking care of their life.


Well, Sunni!. I realized the reason this questions pop up because I am confused about the two things?

1) Now that there seem to be no control. I can't determine the proper attitude to adopt towards life. While on one hand , since there is no control , there is sort of release and accepting things as they are. But on other hand, letting things happen on its own ( since i have no control) and not doing anything does not bring me closer towards living the life i would be satisfied in. I just want to know whats the helpful attitude here. Do we give up 100% control and accepting whatever happens ( maybe i am being extreme here , i don't know) or do we try to strive to live a life that resonates with us? Or is there a balance between both ? Its here where the confusion arises.

2) If there is no responsibility and no control , then why do some people awaken and some people don't? What is the driving factor here? I awakening purely by chance ? A sort of lottery a person stumbles onto?

Good Sid. Still an "I" thought hiding in some of these other replies at the bottom though, so let's look and see if it's really there or not...

I don't know. I guess identification of self and ego stuff keeps them from not taking care of their life.

Who is there to identify? Is there an ego, or is that just a label we put on thoughts we don't like?

Now that there seem to be no control. I can't determine the proper attitude to adopt towards life.

Is there control? Where? Who can't determine the proper attitude towards life? Who could? (do you see that that is more thoughts of control)

since there is no control , there is sort of release and accepting things as they are. But on other hand, letting things happen on its own ( since i have no control) and not doing anything does not bring me closer towards living the life i would be satisfied in. I just want to know whats the helpful attitude here. Do we give up 100% control and accepting whatever happens or do we try to strive to live a life that resonates with us?

Who is there to "let things happen" or "not let things happen" ?? Look.
Is there someone there that is dissatisfied or satisfied with life? Or is there just thoughts appearing and then disappearing and feelings appearing and disappearing? Look.
Who could give up 100% control? Who could have it? Who could strive?
Do you see how these thoughts spin round and round like a carousel, pointing at this supposed controller at the center of the wheel? Is there anyone home at the center that controls? Or just thoughts spinning round and round?

Who DOES life? Is somebody doing it?

Notice how thoughts come and go about what this means for "you", for "your life", notice the fears and stresses that come up, and look to WHOM they are pointing - what is there beneath these worries and fears? What is there all the while? Look deeply at this.

If there is no responsibility and no control , then why do some people awaken and some people don't? What is the driving factor here? I awakening purely by chance ? A sort of lottery a person stumbles onto?

There are no people who awaken, just appearances in *THIS* that we call life. There is no driving factor, because how could the ONE that appears as EVERYTHING want for ANYTHING? Awakening is not "better" or "higher" than staying in the story, all things are utterly indivisibly EQUAL. "waking up" appears in the story, just as "not waking up" does. We could ask "why?" or we could ask "why not?", it's all a play of life.

Notice how it is all happening, totally without "you". :)

With Love,
Sunni

Thanks Sunni! Yes, there was i thoughts hiding in questions i asked.

Who is there to identify? Is there an ego, or is that just a label we put on thoughts we don't like?

There is no one there to identify. Yes, ego is label for thoughts we don't like.

Is there control? Where? Who can't determine the proper attitude towards life? Who could? (do you see that that is more thoughts of control)

Who is there to "let things happen" or "not let things happen" ?? Look.
Is there someone there that is dissatisfied or satisfied with life? Or is there just thoughts appearing and then disappearing and feelings appearing and disappearing? Look.
Who could give up 100% control? Who could have it? Who could strive?

Again, there is no one. These are just thoughts . Therre is no one who control , strive, let things happen etc. Just thoughts.

There are no people who awaken, just appearances in *THIS* that we call life. There is no driving factor, because how could the ONE that appears as EVERYTHING want for ANYTHING? Awakening is not "better" or "higher" than staying in the story, all things are utterly indivisibly EQUAL. "waking up" appears in the story, just as "not waking up" does. We could ask "why?" or we could ask "why not?", it's all a play of life.

Notice how it is all happening, totally without "you". :)

Your explanation makes sense. The unresolved issues are getting resolved. I let you know if anything more comes up.

Hey Sunni!
I get it. Things are much clearer now. Life just happens . No me required.

Hi Sid, thank you for your answers!

I have had some other guides review and we would like to just clear up a few things before confirming. We would love to hear you "ramble" a bit more in your own words about your direct experience of the following questions, so that we can be sure you're not just agreeing to my questions/statements, and that we're not missing any hidden identification. :) So when you answer please try to be a bit more detailed and describe from your own direct experience.

1. Can you explain in your own words why there is no control whatsoever?

2. You refer in some of your answers to scientific explanations of how the brain/eyes etc. work - and that is fine - but let's go a little deeper here and look, does the body/brain experience? Or is the body/brain just another experience? Are you a body/brain? Please describe this in as much detail as possible.

With Love,
Sunni

Hey Sunni!

1. Can you explain in your own words why there is no control whatsoever?

Well, rambling is the right word for what I am going to do now. :)

Well , lets consider this situation. It was a hot day. Due to this , Sid is thirsty. Hence, the need for a drink arises. Water and cool mango drink is available. Hence , the thought of drinking water and drinking the mango drink comes up. As its was very hot day, the mango drink was seen to be more tempting. A mango drink thought arised which was seen as a decision. Sid drank the mango juice. All this things happened as a reaction to the present conditions . The mango drink decision arised as a reaction to present environment. It just happened. Sid believed at that time he had a power of control and used it to drink mango juice. It wasn't a conscious action. It just arose in the present moment. Sid wasn't required for these decision to be made.
A bird pooped on Sid. Sid had no control on that event. A feeling of irritation arised. Sid didn't consciously choose the feeling of irritation. The irritation just came up. Sid called the bird some names which happened due to irritation .Next time sid walked the same path , he looked up to see if there was any bird that would poop on him. A reaction that arose due to past experience. Not a conscious action . Again , everything just happened .
Due to the mood that was experienced that day, a need to listen to a nice slow music came up. A thought about different songs came up. A thought of particular song came up. That song was then listened to. Sid didn't control what songs to hear , the listening to particular just happened.
The thing is life is just happening. Its just arising.there is a realization that there is no control on what arises. There never was. It just happens.
When there was a realization of no control , they were thoughts about how 'bad' stuff could happen and I have no control or how I might end up living a life that didn't resonate with me.Mainly there was fear that of how things won't be alright at the end. Now this is the part that i find difficult to express clearly . But there is small realization - a tiny glimpse - which was there temporarily that things were always fine. I can see that I don't need to control things or control my life to end up being fine or to end up being happy. I probably have better understanding of this some other day.
I can't say there is complete understanding of this control concept. But my understanding is becoming more and more clear now. There will be more exploring about this in future. I wouldn't be surprised if some doubts crop up in future .I can sense some remnants of doubt here that hasn't been verbalized yet. .

Now a question has arised - can there be a conscious action?

You refer in some of your answers to scientific explanations of how the brain/eyes etc. work - and that is fine - but let's go a little deeper here and look, does the body/brain experience? Or is the body/brain just another experience? Are you a body/brain? Please describe this in as much detail as possible.

Well , I used the scientific explanation because it was easier way of explaining the understanding I had. I The body and brain is being experienced. The body is not having an experience. I don't know what more to describe here.

Cheers
Sid

Short version- . Controlling requires a controller .Thee is no one who does the controlling. Hence, there is no control.