Nezinau

[poppyseed]

Hi Vytas :)
Yes, I think you see that meaning/interpretation of DE is added by thought. So let’s take the next step.
The next time there is an emotional reaction with another person, look at one real example.
For example, thought may say: “she is angry with me” / “he does not respect me” / “they are judging me” / “she should understand me”. At that moment, what is actually present in direct experience? What is seen? What is heard? What sensation is present?
Then look at the interpretation.
Is “she is angry with me” directly seen or heard? Does sound contain anger or is it just sound? There are also facial movement, sensations … do they contain anger or are they simply seeing and feeling?
Can the other person’s intention be directly experienced?
Can their opinion of “you” be directly experienced?
Can “they are judging me” be found outside thought?
Stay with one real interaction and separate what was actually seen/heard/felt from what thought said it meant.

Love
Rali

[Vytas2222]

Hey Rali :)

Thanks for getting back. Just wanted to share that after our last conversation , I had a shift , by shift. I mean I started seeing very clearly mechanics of guilt and other thought processes when they rise.... Just wanted to share that the mechanics seems automatically clearer where the mind starts interpretation... The daily life became less with the attachment to the thought outcome and other things .... Just making things without resistance to process and outcome.

For example, thought may say: “she is angry with me” / “he does not respect me” / “they are judging me” / “she should understand me”. At that moment, what is actually present in direct experience? What is seen? What is heard? What sensation is present?

Sensations + thought ... Actualy experienced sound , seen colors , Sensation in the body in stomach.


Then look at the interpretation.

Is “she is angry with me” directly seen or heard? Does sound contain anger or is it just sound? There are also facial movement, sensations … do they contain anger or are they simply seeing and feeling?

They are simply seeing

Can the other person’s intention be directly experienced?

no

Can their opinion of “you” be directly experienced?

no

Can “they are judging me” be found outside thought?

no

Stay with one real interaction and separate what was actually seen/heard/felt from what thought said it meant.

I was chatting with my colleague and he was pushing me to call one of pour partners ,,, The thought came he is micromanaging me , I decide what to do and so on ... the sensations in the stomach ..... What was actually seen is text in he chat programs , felt sensations and mental images + thought ....

Thanks Rali - one more time ....

Vytas

[poppyseed]

Hi Vytas :)
Good. In the colleague example there was text (aka colour/seeing), sensation, and then the thought story: “he is micromanaging me”, “I decide what to do”. Neither the controller “him” nor the controlled “me” was found outside that story. Just check...
What exactly was being threatened? Was there an actual “me” being controlled?
Or did thought create both sides: “him” the controller and “me” the one being controlled?
Then look at: “I decide what to do.”
Is that directly experienced? Or is that another thought defending the idea of control?
Stay with the stomach sensation for a moment.
Does that sensation say: “he is controlling me”?
Does it say: “I must defend myself”?

I think that is enough on “others” for now, but keep on noticing when “difficult” situations arise.
Let’s look at the other area you mentioned: “awakening”, “going deeper”, “getting back to understanding”, “getting back to bliss”, “the one who knows”, “the teacher”…
When one of these appears during the day, stop and look.
What is actually present? Is there a sensation?
A thought about a better future state?
A memory of how things felt before?
Can the one who needs to “go deeper” actually be found?
Is anything missing before thought says something is missing?
And when thought says: “I understand this”, “I can explain it to others”, “I know what they should do”, can a knower or teacher be found anywhere outside that thought?
Please use one fresh example when the seeker or teacher shows up in daily life.

Love
Rali

[Vytas2222]

Hey Rali :)

Good. In the colleague example there was text (aka colour/seeing), sensation, and then the thought story: “he is micromanaging me”, “I decide what to do”. Neither the controller “him” nor the controlled “me” was found outside that story. Just check...
What exactly was being threatened? Was there an actual “me” being controlled?

No - thought about me

Or did thought create both sides: “him” the controller and “me” the one being controlled?

Yes both sides created by thought

Then look at: “I decide what to do.”
Is that directly experienced? Or is that another thought defending the idea of control?

another thought defending the control.

Stay with the stomach sensation for a moment.
Does that sensation say: “he is controlling me”?

No

Does it say: “I must defend myself”?

No

I think that is enough on “others” for now, but keep on noticing when “difficult” situations arise.
Let’s look at the other area you mentioned: “awakening”, “going deeper”, “getting back to understanding”, “getting back to bliss”, “the one who knows”, “the teacher”…

When one of these appears during the day, stop and look.
What is actually present? Is there a sensation?

Yes

A thought about a better future state?

YEs

A memory of how things felt before?

Yes

Can the one who needs to “go deeper” actually be found?

No

Is anything missing before thought says something is missing?

No

And when thought says: “I understand this”, “I can explain it to others”, “I know what they should do”, can a knower or teacher be found anywhere outside that thought?

no

Please use one fresh example when the seeker or teacher shows up in daily life.

Yesterday in the evening , I was sitting , the sensation appeared , the thought appeared I should feel the present moment , The thought I have to get back to listening to youtube to know some more knowledge to be guided in this moment. Its mostly the sensation then , the thought I should feel not like this ....

Other example - when I met a friend , was talking with him and started telling what I understand , and how sensation works , about the present moment and so on . When you meet some one The thought rise , I need to sahre with him , The thought I undersatnd how it works he not , The thought I must tell him .....

Best regards ,
Vytas

[poppyseed]

Hi Vytas :)
Good. These are two very clear examples.
First the seeker: “I should feel the present moment.” , “I should not feel like this.”, “I need more knowledge/guidance.”
Look at the sensation before those thoughts appear.
Is there anything wrong with the sensation itself?
Does it say: “this is not present enough”? “This needs to change”?
Or does thought compare what is here with a remembered or imagined better state?
Without that comparison, is there actually anything to get back to?

Now the teacher: “I understand.” “He doesn’t.” “I need to tell him.”
Look carefully.
Can the one who “understands” be found?
Can the one who “doesn’t understand” be found? Are there two selves here?
Or are there simply two streams of thought, two chains or patterns appearing—one closer to direct experience (also familiar) and the other less so? Where is the interpretation of both – “over there” or…? Where is the meaning generated?
In DE there are sounds, colours and sensations…
Is there an actual difference in direct experience called “I know more than him”?
Or is that whole hierarchy created in thought?
And most importantly… Before the thought “I need to share this” appears, is anything missing?
Also… Does sharing happen naturally? Or is there a thought trying to confirm or strengthen the identity of “the one who knows”/ “the enlightened one”?
Furthermore, look at “guiding” itself. If guiding or sharing is going to happen, can it simply happen when the conditions are there?
Does guiding require a separate “teacher” to exist?
Can words be spoken, questions asked, and something useful shared without anyone becoming “the one who knows”?
Maybe guiding happens when it happens — just like everything else. The function does not require an identity around it.
Just notice these two patterns when they appear. No need to stop them. Only see what is actually present, and what thought adds.

Love
Rali

[Vytas2222]

Hey Rali :)

First the seeker: “I should feel the present moment.” , “I should not feel like this.”, “I need more knowledge/guidance.”
Look at the sensation before those thoughts appear.

Is there anything wrong with the sensation itself?

no

Does it say: “this is not present enough”? “This needs to change”?

The sensation doesn't tell anything - only thought

Or does thought compare what is here with a remembered or imagined better state?

yes

Without that comparison, is there actually anything to get back to?

no

Now the teacher: “I understand.” “He doesn’t.” “I need to tell him.”
Look carefully.
Can the one who “understands” be found?

no

Can the one who “doesn’t understand” be found? Are there two selves here?

no - its thought i understand , the other thought is he doesn't understand

Or are there simply two streams of thought, two chains or patterns appearing—one closer to direct experience (also familiar) and the other less so? Where is the interpretation of both – “over there” or…? Where is the meaning generated?

So its the thought - i understand with the thought i know , with thought i have experienced. and other thought i know he didn't, with other thought I know and the other thought he doesn't . And separate thoughts this is me this is him
Its all the structure of thoughts startin from the thought I

In DE there are sounds, colours and sensations…
Is there an actual difference in direct experience called “I know more than him”?

Or is that whole hierarchy created in thought?

It's all hierarchy of thoughts combining thought on thought with thoughts describing me and other person also a thought.

And most importantly… Before the thought “I need to share this” appears, is anything missing?

no

Also… Does sharing happen naturally? Or is there a thought trying to confirm or strengthen the identity of “the one who knows”/ “the enlightened one”?

a thought trying to confirm or strengthen the identity

Furthermore, look at “guiding” itself. If guiding or sharing is going to happen, can it simply happen when the conditions are there?

yes

Does guiding require a separate “teacher” to exist?

no

Can words be spoken, questions asked, and something useful shared without anyone becoming “the one who knows”?

yes

Have a good day ...
Vytas

[Vytas2222]

Hey Rali ,

Are we moving with the inquiry ?

Vytas

[poppyseed]

Hi Vytas :)

We’ve looked at this from many angles now. Before we move on, I want to check a few remaining points. Please don’t answer from what you think should be true. Use recent examples from everyday life.

Awakening expectations
Is there still any expectation that awakening should mean: more bliss, more silence, fewer thoughts, less emotion, permanent clarity, certainty, or some final unmistakable shift?
When the thought “I should be further” appears, what is actually missing before that thought?

No control / helplessness
When it is seen that no separate controller can be found, does any fear appear that: “then I am helpless”, “nothing can be done” ...
If that appears, what is actually present?
Is helplessness found in DE, or is it another thought-story?

Intention
When an intention appears — for example: “I will call someone”, “I will finish this task”...
Did you create the intention?
Can the thinker be found?
Does intention control what happens next?
Or is intention itself just another commentary appearing?

Seeking
During the day, does anything still feel like: “I need another shift”/ “I need to understand more”...
If yes, what is the seeker in direct experience?
Can the one who needs to arrive be found?

Practical life
Does seeing no separate self remove: learning, planning, apologising, correcting mistakes, caring for others, work, responsibility?
Or do these still happen without a separate controller?
Please give one or two real examples.

And finally:
Is there anything left that still feels like “me” in a way that has not been clearly looked at?
Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?

Love
Rali

[Vytas2222]

Hey Rali :)

Awakening expectations
Is there still any expectation that awakening should mean: more bliss, more silence, fewer thoughts, less emotion, permanent clarity, certainty, or some final unmistakable shift?

I don't know what enlightenment is, honestly. Seeing the way it is is already being enlightened. I don't hope for anything else at the moment. Maybe there's a hope to see things the way they really are. I'm tired of seeking anything. I like the way it is.

When the thought “I should be further” appears, what is actually missing before that thought?

I'm tired, lying down, and the thought says I should be working. It's a thought that something is missing this exact moment — that I'm not doing what the thought says I should do. But I'm still lying here doing the inquiry.
Nothing is missing , just its a sensation then the thought , I don't like the sensation i whabt to be different , i need to be at the moment ... so its thought on thought

No control / helplessness
When it is seen that no separate controller can be found, does any fear appear that: “then I am helpless”, “nothing can be done” ...

Regarding the controler - From my perspective what I see at the moment is no. But maybe somewhere deep inside I still believe there is control. I don't know. , Its also a thought

If that appears, what is actually present? Is helplessness found in DE, or is it another thought-story?

I had both those thoughts some time ago and understood it's total bullshit — both thoughts stop you from acting. But answering your question yes they are thoughts.

Intention

When an intention appears — for example: “I will call someone”, “I will finish this task”...
Did you create the intention?

With physical things I see it — the intention just comes and you do it. With planned things like calling someone, the mind tricks you. I understand the mechanics but I can't see it that directly. I'd be lying if I said I see it a hundred percent. I've seen it in some situations, but something deep inside still holds it.

Can the thinker be found?

Thoughts just come on their own, and then another thought on top: "I thought it." They come based on sensation, commentating what's happening, and the commentary carries the small sense that I exist.

Does intention control what happens next?Or is intention itself just another commentary appearing?

The thought came, I'll go by bicycle to the city. Then I went outside, saw the clouds, and said no. Then I lay down and said in half an hour I'll cycle to the park. If it always went as the thought said, you'd be doing everything. It's impossible that what thought says is what gets done.

intention is another thought , and just a commentary

Seeking
During the day, does anything still feel like: “I need another shift”/ “I need to understand more”...

I'm reading Gateless Gatecrashers and wondering whether I've reached it or not. It's disturbing because I don't know what the result should be. I think maybe I've already reached it and it's just the mechanics showing something different. I'm confused, being honest.

If yes, what is the seeker in direct experience?

I can't find a sensation. Just a thought that something is not enough in this moment, which converts into "I have to reach some kind of state." When it rises, maybe there's a sensation you don't like and a push away from it — and then "there's enlightenment I haven't reached" gets laid over the top.

Can the one who needs to arrive be found?

no

Practical life
Does seeing no separate self remove: learning, planning, apologising, correcting mistakes, caring for others, work, responsibility?
Or do these still happen without a separate controller?
Please give one or two real examples.

All of it is done with bigger efficiency, quicker and better, because there's no "I" on top. There's no one to reach a goal, no one to be hurt, no one to be disappointed.

Example one. At work, with a to-do list: when you don't have attachment to the result, when there's no "I" in the task, you just go and do it, slowly and easily. Procrastination is one of the things "I" is involved in. The energy is lost not because the task is hard but because of the "I" involvement and the strategising.

Example two. I went to a friend when my wife expected me to stay. She was a bit sad. There was no guilt — I understood it doesn't matter to feel guilty just for feeling guilty. That's "I" saying I've done something bad. I apologised. Without the "I" involved it's a very different conversation with the person.

And finally:
Is there anything left that still feels like “me” in a way that has not been clearly looked at?

I don't feel anything that needs to be looked at at the moment.

Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?

I can't say a hundred percent because "I" is involved in saying it. If I said "I know," it means this "I" knows — so it's incorporating him again. It is seen when it's looked at, but sometimes it slips away and it's not always seen in daily life. Have I seen it in action ten, twenty times? Yes, a hundred percent. Sometimes I feel it very clearly, sometimes not, and that's not based on my decision. Maybe it's normal that you can't see all the mechanics at once. Waiting for that would be like waiting for another bliss, like the satori I had. In my work "I" was always involved, always in panic about making mistakes or about the result, and now I'm doing things without attachment, even things that are unpleasant to do.

Is it clear the separate self doesn't exist? For me it's clear that it doesn't exist. There are two levels: it's clear in my mind that it doesn't exist because I've seen it, but it's not always felt like that.

Vytas :) thanks Rali .... for your time
Best regards

[Vytas2222]

Hey Rali ,

Yesterday I looked to your questions one more time. I am using ai to talk to as it helps me in talking to look more clearly. Sharing yesterday answers.

**Is there still any expectation that awakening should mean: more bliss, more silence, fewer thoughts, less emotion, permanent clarity, certainty, or some final unmistakable shift?**

From one side I still see it sometimes — before it comes: "I need to come to this position, that feeling, this emotion." It's mostly like a thought that wants to move away from something, maybe a hard period of life, and then "this is the enlightenment I would love to reach, and I'm not there yet." Answering directly: I don't know, I've never seen what is before the thought.

**When the thought "I should be further" appears, what is actually missing before that thought?**

Nothing. Everything is in place. The missing comes with the thought.

*

*When it is seen that no separate controller can be found, does any fear appear: "then I am helpless", "nothing can be done"?**

When you look directly, you can't find the controller. There is no such fear that I have seen. The fear still comes sometimes, but there's no "I" found who is fearing, and no one controlling it. It's the illusion of controlling something. Everything is clear when I mechanically stop and look at it; when I'm not looking, it still feels like there's control — but that's only assumed in those times. The assumption is also just a thought.

Also: if there were a controller, you could control a thought and you would do it one hundred percent, without hesitation. You can't control fifty percent. The thought to exercise came three times before I exercised. If the controller were real, why did it need three times?

**Is helplessness found in DE, or is it another thought-story?**

It's only a thought-story.

**

When an intention appears — did you create the intention?**

No, it simply appeared. Example: the thought "I will work out" — it just appeared.

**

Can the thinker be found?*

*
No.

**

Does intention control what happens next? Or is intention itself just another commentary appearing?**

It's just a thought appearing. It can't be relied on — sometimes it becomes an action, and then another thought comes: "the thought made the action." But the more you look, you see: it happened, and before it there also came one thought about "I'm doing it." Example: I feel bad and I know smoking is bad, but I still smoke. If there were a controller, he would control that I don't smoke — but I still smoke. And when the not-smoking happens, there's also no controller found — it also just happens, and "I resisted" is claimed after. The illusion works both ways.

**

During the day, does anything still feel like "I need another shift" / "I need to understand more"?**

Yes — "I need to feel better." It's a sensation, and then the thought that wants to move away from the sensation. But there's still an "I" in it — the thought of the I that is feeling bad, and the assumption "I would feel better." Sometimes you can't see the I. When I look at what the "I" in the thought is — it's the illusion of me.

**

What is the seeker in direct experience? Can the one who needs to arrive be found?*

*
No. Not found.

**

Does seeing no separate self remove learning, planning, apologising, correcting mistakes, caring for others, work, responsibility?

**
It all still happens. Without a controller.

**Real example:**
In London I live in a bad suburb and a child was screaming in the street. A woman went out and asked the man if he was her father; he told her to fuck off, went to the car and drove away. Nobody knows if he was the father. For three days I'm blaming myself that I could have gone out earlier when I heard the screaming, that I didn't report it. Who is blaming? I can't find him — but the sensation is still pressing. Looking at it: heaviness in the stomach, something in the feet. The heaviness doesn't say anything — it doesn't say "you should have gone earlier," that's thought. It doesn't contain the child, the street, or three days ago — it's just heaviness, here, now. Staying with it twenty seconds: nothing happened.

**

Is there anything left that still feels like "me" that has not been clearly looked at?*

*
I don't know — I don't feel something that needs to be looked at. We looked at extra places:
The knower — no hearer found, just hearing. No knower, just knowing.
The one who wants — like intention, just wanting happens.
The one who was here yesterday and will be tomorrow — it's only memory and thought, appearing now.

**

Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?*

*
Sensations, hearing, taste — direct experience happens. Experience happens, and the illusion comes that I am the one experiencing it. Even the experience of a separate self or non-separate self is also happening in experience. For whom is it clear — for the imaginary me? It's clear when it's seen. While looking at it — yes, it's clear.


Vytas ;)

[Vytas2222]

Hey Rali,

Sorry for disturbing you have we finished? , if so thank you for your time and work with me.

Best regards ,
Vytas ;)

[poppyseed]

Hi Vytas :)



I apologise for the delay. I was travelling again and I forgot to let you know. I’m visiting my kids in Germany so I apologise if I can’t answer on time. Also, the forum seems to be down and I’m struggling to post a reply so in case you can’t post please keep on trying the forum as people are working on fixing it.

From what you’ve reported, I don’t think we need more exercises looking for a separate self.
One thing to make clear first ... Seeing through the illusion does not mean that the old “I” thoughts never appear again.
It does not mean that it must feel clear every second of the day. It does not mean permanent bliss, silence, certainty, or continuously remembering “there is no self.” Conditioning can still produce “I did this” /“I should have done that” / “I need to feel better” / “I am in control” / “I should be further”
The question is much simpler:
When those thoughts are actually looked at, is there a real separate entity behind them?
From your answers, you seem very clear about that.
Identification isn't an entity identifying. It's the continuation of a thought-chain without returning to direct experience. That is why sometimes a thought simply comes and goes, while other times it snowballs into suffering. Not because there's a believer, but because the chain never leaves thought.
It's that subsequent thoughts build on the first instead of looking again. Once that recursive loop is seen, "identification" loses its mysterious status.
The difference is:
thought → thought → thought...
versus
thought → LOOK.

Expectations are one of the most frequent blocks to seeing what ‘reality’ actually is. We can blame Guru stories and the attraction to drama in our society for focusing on stories of the initial epiphany that people have as they wake up (because some have a ‘wow’ factor). This puts into our head, the idea of “bells and whistles”. We expect high drama to confirm that a significant shift has occurred. In many cases it happens quietly and gradually, as believes come one by one to be seen through. It may take days, months or years and it very much depends on the acquired conditioning. It also is self-organised - thoughts restructuring around the fact that there is no self, seen one belief at a time. It doesn't happen automatically - e.g. once it's seen no self and then ALL beliefs drop on the spot - nope. Resistance and strong emotions (fear, anger, blame, guilt) become a very good tool for spotting believes that are still lingering around. Question what you know is true. This falling away of old beliefs happens whether you do work on that or just stay with what is present, the process takes care of itself. Sometimes it is intense, sometimes it’s gentle, but there is no landing, only
falling deeper and deeper into peace. As I warned you in the beginning of the inquiry:

I can promise you there will be no fireworks; it is just a subtle shift in perception! The only true expectation, that you can have, is that the seeking will end. If there are any other expectations, it's good to acknowledge them and then set them aside. It is all much simpler and ordinary.

Some common misconceptions:
That I will experience permanent bliss.
That I will be able to stop my thoughts.
I will be able to manifest prosperity.
I will never hurt others again
I will never develop dementia
I will never have any more interpersonal conflicts
I will never again get angry
I will never be hurt
I will be loved (approval of others)
I will always know what to do (control)
I will always feel good (control feelings / bliss)
:)
Seeing usually is not 24/7. There's usually a "honeymoon period," and then what we call, "got it, lost it," as untrue beliefs come up to be questioned. This can go on for months and years. This initial shift is irreversible, just as we can never go back to believing in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. We still use first-person pronouns to describe “ourselves” with the same ease we always had, even if such ideas have no more actual meaning than talking about Santa Claus once we learn “he” doesn’t exist either. The separate “self” is seen to have been nothing more than inference and interpretation.
As a result of getting this first irreversible understanding of who we aren’t there is a joyfulness or easiness, an initial cleansing of wrong views, and an illumination of what is (and is not) happening within and around us. Even though this illumination is temporary, it nevertheless constitutes a significant re-ordering of how we perceive ourselves and our place in the world.
This video might be helpful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJQcD588g2w
Think of a mirage. When you recognise it as a mirage, does the shimmering appearance disappear? No. The appearance remains. What disappears is the assumption that it is water.

Or think of the Müller-Lyer illusion. Even after measuring the lines and knowing they are the same length, they still look different. The illusion isn't destroyed—it is seen. There is a difference between an illusion and a delusion. Illusion is when something can be seen as something else, but the truth of what is real is known. Delusion is when the illusion is believed to be true. The same applies here.

The thought "I" does not need to disappear. Memories do not need to disappear. The body image does not need to disappear. Functional language does not need to disappear. The question has always been:
Does the thought "I" point to an independently existing entity?
Or is that the assumption that has been seen through?
The appearance remains. What changes is that the thought "I" is no longer taken to point to an independently existing self.
That is why an illusion is different from a delusion. A delusion disappears when it is corrected. An illusion may continue to look exactly the same, even after the truth about it is known.
As Philip K. Dick beautifully put it: "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
The thought "I" may continue to arise,the question is simply:
Does the thought "I" point to anything that can actually be found?

We have some checkpoint questions. Would you like to answer these?

Love
Rali

[Vytas2222]

Hey Rali ,

First of all wanted to a thank you one more time for your time , it is a pleasure to meet people that do something dot ithers without an intention to receive anything.

Answering the questions

When those thoughts are actually looked at, is there a real separate entity behind them?

No

Does the thought "I" point to an independently existing entity?

Or is that the assumption that has been seen through?
You can’t find I when looked

Does the thought "I" point to anything that can actually be found?

No

We have some checkpoint questions. Would you like to answer these?

Yes it would be interesting


So I would like to say that regarding those blisses I had them different and so on this going gave me structure and more clear understanding, i understand that the journey eill go from here and wanted to check that all the ways are correct but as far as I understand is looking during the day when the thoudghts come to stories looking for this I … also just beeing inthe sensations … also self inquiry in writing … do you have or now where their is some structure for self inquiry or there is no as everyone does it vased on their understanding… maybe if you have some techniques written in please share if not also ok … i would go on my way…

Thanks in advance ;) Vytas

[poppyseed]

Hi Vytas :)

Thank you for the kind words. Before looking for another technique or structure, notice the thought:
“I need to know the correct way forward.”

That can easily become the next seeker. There is no special state to maintain and no need to keep checking for an “I” all day. Use ordinary life. When something becomes sticky — guilt, fear, irritation, control, seeking, wanting approval — look:
What is actually present?
What is sensation? What is thought adding?
Where is the “I” that thought refers to?

Sometimes this will be seen immediately, sometimes only later. That is fine.
Thoughts, sensations, planning, responsibility, relationships and practical life continue. What has been examined is the assumption that there is a separate entity behind them.

So, for now, just answer the checkpoint questions. They are not another exercise — they are simply a way to see whether anything important is still unclear.

After that, if you want a reference for further fetter work, Pernille Damore and Todd Lent’s channel is useful:
https://www.youtube.com/@TheAwakeningCurriculum
Use it as a reference, not as another ladder to climb.

Here are the questions. Please answer all questions in full, when you are ready. Please answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Love
Rali

[Vytas2222]

Hey Rali,

Answering the questions.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me', 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

The separate entity is in the thought, and thought over thought. It was always a thought. Still it comes in different forms during the day, but when looked at, it cannot be found.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The separate self is the thought. Thoughts appear and vanish, and thoughts have the other thought — "me", "I", and so on. I can't see the start of it before it appears. Seeing that thoughts involve "I" is not bad, as long as you don't believe in those thoughts. The mechanics: they are separate events — sensations and thoughts. Thought, or "I", comments on what's happening by delivering the thought with "I" — "I have done." The "I" arrives after — the spinning is already happening, then "I am spinning." When looked at, you can't find the I.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Life is as it is, it hasn't changed. The perspective of how you see it is a little bit different. I had different experiences even before this forum — the thing is that those experiences come and go, and when they left, the "I" came back with a stronger shift. The main difference is seeing the mechanics, noticing when there are thoughts that circle back. The main difference is doing what needs to be done without involvement of "I" — a smoother way to move through life.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I had several small shifts — I had prior very strong shifts, if you can compare :) But the main parts that really pushed were looking at the guilt, and looking at others.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Decision is just a thought — the illusion that you have decided. For 3 days I was looking for time to answer these questions. Then the intention came and I'm answering now. The decision is the thought that comes after what already will happen, with the illusion "I have decided."

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Actions or events just happen, and the thought of intention comes and takes the ownership. There are plenty of examples — if intention would work, we would do 100% what it tells us. It's not that way. I'm telling myself I will quit smoking, will not smoke tomorrow, and so on — nothing happens :)

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Everything happens as it should happen — free will is an illusion. Intentions happen, thoughts happen, sensations rise. Take the example with smoking: if you had free will, there would be no smoking. Everything happens as it happens. Even this writing and answering is happening now.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Things happen, choices also happen. But "I have chosen" is the illusion — the illusion that you can choose. Can I choose not to go to the toilet? :) It's the same — it's just the illusion that you have choice. If it would be like that, we would all be healthy, enlightened, and wouldn't suffer, because there would be a choice to choose :)

Describe control & give examples from experience.

Control is a thought, mostly on top of another thought about a future event. It's just a thought. You can't control your thoughts, your sensations — you can't even control your heart. It's an illusion. Things just happen, and then comes the "I": "I control this process," and so on.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

Things just happen. Thoughts just come and go, sensations rise, seeing happens. Nothing makes things happen — they just happen. The illusion is "I have done something." When looked at — of course the mind commentates with thoughts that everything that is done is done by me.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Things happen. Sometimes you said something bad to a person — it happened, then sensation rises, asking to forgive happens. Responsibility for your children and family happens. The only thing that makes it hard is when "I" gets involved in all these processes.

6) Anything to add?

Big thanks for your time, one more time. Also I understand it's not the end — it's just the process. There are still lots of mechanics that will trigger during every day, just the difference is they will be seen more clearly. That's all, Rali. Thank you, wish you the best.