Help seeing through the separate self

[aldertree]

Hi Rowena,

OK, you say this felt strange every time, but compared with the last exercise when a body couldn't be found either, would you say that the feelings/sensations are slowly lessening? That there isn't such an anxious response? That it feels less like the rug has been pulled from under your feet?

Yes I would say it is lessening. It just sort of felt like an out of body experience, like "I" was sort of floating. I could see and feel but the body wasn't experienced! Yes it does feel like the rug is being pulled away. At times it feels freeing and other times there is a tightness in the throat.

Here is a video that talks to this: https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w?si=BuRGd0dhsHAWkjnJ

This is excellent - the openness is much easier to go with than the contraction/ resistance and letting it be as it is. Letting go of understanding is also something I struggle with!

LOOKING AT THE WORLD
Where were you getting the 'information' about a world?
Was it in the seen?

Yes

Are there actual objects out there? Yes/No

If yes, how do you know?

No, just colour, shape, light and dark

Is there actual distance? Yes/No
If yes, how do you know?

No there is just everything appearing in the visual field.

Can distance be found in the visual field alone?

No

Is there a boundary or any distance between you (the observer) and the visual field?

There is no boundary, everything is just appearing.

Weirdly, I think because I have got so used to looking at things without labels I was having to force myself to label things the first time around! The second time around, with no labels shadow and light came to the fore a lot more.

Flipping it around
Is there any separate thing or separate "you" to be found?

No

Is there a boundary to be found between see-er and the seen with this flip?

No

Is there an actual outside or inside that can be flipped around?

I'm not so sure about this one, I didn't really experience an inside and an outside.

Briefly describe what was experienced, including thinking and sensations. It is quite normal for there to be some reactivity with this exercise.

I found this quite hard to visualise, there was a tightness and contraction in my throat and my heart started pounding. I tried to imagine the object looking at me and just seeing colour and shape. There was no you to be found.

Warmly,
Ellie

[Noro]

Hello Ellie,

Yes I would say it is lessening. It just sort of felt like an out of body experience, like "I" was sort of floating. I could see and feel but the body wasn't experienced! Yes it does feel like the rug is being pulled away. At times it feels freeing and other times there is a tightness in the throat.

Yes, I know that feeling! The important thing is to remember that when you say to yourself, it FEELs like it was a sort of out of body experience, like floating, PLEASE GO INTO THE SENSATIONS. Ask yourself: How does it feel to feel like floating? Sit down and get grounded into the sensations in your body. Every thing we can describe that it going on that affects us can be tracked to the body, and the body, i.e. sensations, are key in being included in this inquiry. No mind without a body!!

Weirdly, I think because I have got so used to looking at things without labels I was having to force myself to label things the first time around! The second time around, with no labels shadow and light came to the fore a lot more.

Each time it is a different experience. That is the way it is! No expectations for experiences be repeated in the same way.

Briefly describe what was experienced, including thinking and sensations. It is quite normal for there to be some reactivity with this exercise.

I found this quite hard to visualise, there was a tightness and contraction in my throat and my heart started pounding. I tried to imagine the object looking at me and just seeing colour and shape. There was no you to be found.

Good to notice, simply, sensations appearing. It is interesting to note how the body can react to mental visualisations i.e. our imagination.


Here is something for tomorrow:


NATURE
Go outside into nature (or simply outside where you live) and spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds, cars, people - all move all the time.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colours, sensations come and go.

Notice that everything is part of one movement, always. Only thoughts can seem to distract us away from this one movement, but actually, they too are part of this one movement too..


Now close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?

Now open your eyes

Is there an inside and an outside of Life?

Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?

Does it seem as if there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?

Is witnessing part of the one movement, too?

Can an actual witness be found?

Are there any body sensations involved?

Is there anything which is not just happening?

Go out, come back and tell me what you found.


Warmly,

Rowena

[aldertree]

Good afternoon,

I have been a little busy today too! I will have much more time tomorrow but here is what I have found so far:

Yes, I know that feeling! The important thing is to remember that when you say to yourself, it FEELs like it was a sort of out of body experience, like floating, PLEASE GO INTO THE SENSATIONS. Ask yourself: How does it feel to feel like floating? Sit down and get grounded into the sensations in your body. Every thing we can describe that it going on that affects us can be tracked to the body, and the body, i.e. sensations, are key in being included in this inquiry. No mind without a body!!

It feels a bit like when you are on a boat and the boat is bobbing up and down, a slight swaying sensation in the eyes.

NATURE
Is there an inside and an outside of Life?

No!

Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?

No

Does it seem as if there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?

When my eyes are open it feels like there is distance more than when my eyes are closed. When my eyes are closed everything is just happening. I can't say why exactly it feels like that, it is just a sense - that the sounds and sights are coming to me. But then if I wasn't there it would still be going on!

Is witnessing part of the one movement, too?

Yes

Can an actual witness be found?

No, I looked for one but couldn't find it!

Are there any body sensations involved?

Body sensations are just part of the one movement of life, in terms of body sensations related to the feeling of being a witness, I couldn't find anything specific.

Is there anything which is not just happening?

No

Go out, come back and tell me what you found.

Everything is just moving and flowing, coming and going - life is inside me and I am inside life. It seems arrogant to say I am witnessing life, how could that be true?! Life is just happening and no witness is necessary!

Warm wishes,
Ellie

[Noro]

Hi Ellie,

That is a beautiful response. I was very touched by your words.

I will let you explore further and wait to hear from you tomorrow.

Just one word about a witness. It seems to be, from my experience, a very subtle energetic movement into thought, where there is no actual thought, but a kind of looking from a slight distance. Once it is noticed the sense of it normally disappears and there can be a kind of full on absorption into the direct experience. Hope this is helpful. Looking forward to your findings tomorrow.

Warm wishes

Rowena

[aldertree]

Hi Rowena,

I have explored this a little more this evening.

Does it seem as if there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?

No, a witness is removed from life. I am a part of life so I can't be a witness. Life is just happening.

I didn't notice any body sensations except a subtle expansion in the heart.

Warm wishes,
Ellie

[Noro]

Hi again Ellie,

STREAM EXERCISE - PERSONAL DOERSHIP
Imagine for a moment a scene, one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source. It has been raining and so the level is quite high.

Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows to the right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over a small cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side.

Does it choose any of its directions? Is a stream ever really a separate entity, different from other water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it ever the exact same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions, ground conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

1. Using this metaphor, can you find anywhere where "you" autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens.

Consider that there are environmental factors, consider any preferences like color, shape and texture.
Consider where did those preferences come from?

Was any autonomous intervention actually involved?

Consider any practical issues (such as what is available).
Consider the time factor, i.e. for preparation.
Consider the purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!) etc.

Where in all of the above is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life?

Can you find a someone or something somewhere? (Not just thoughts, and thoughts about the thoughts (thought bundles), none of which are solid even if they seem to have some solidity for an instant.)

Do you control attention?
Do you control feelings?
Do you control choices?
Do you control thoughts?
Do you control anything?

3. Now consider, can anything be found for which a 'you' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

4. Take your time with this exercise and occasionally stop for a few moments throughout your day and take a look. When you find your attention caught up in thinking.... stop, take a look....

Was there a "you" that suddenly stopped the trail of thought and said "Oh, I'm lost in thought!" ?
Do you control being "lost in thought?"

Let me know how this lands with you.

Warm wishes,

Rowena

[aldertree]

Good morning Rowena,
It is so hot in England, but I am guessing it in hot in Belgium too!

1. Using this metaphor, can you find anywhere where "you" autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

No, it seems that things just come up and "I" just follow wherever the path takes me!

2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens.

What to wear this morning - I went into my drawer, I saw a couple of options and picked up some shorts which I know are comfortable in the heat.I picked up a t shirt which was already out and put that on.

Consider that there are environmental factors, consider any preferences like color, shape and texture.
Consider where did those preferences come from?

It was mainly chosen due to the weather and experience about what is comfortable to wear when it is hot and it was what was clean and available to wear.

Was any autonomous intervention actually involved?

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Do you mean did "I" intervene to make a decision? If so, then it didn't really feel like there was any choosing.

Where in all of the above is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life?

I can't find one, it just happened. There were thoughts like - this one is cooler etc - but this is just a thought. I didn't choose the thoughts they just popped up.

Can you find a someone or something somewhere? (Not just thoughts, and thoughts about the thoughts (thought bundles), none of which are solid even if they seem to have some solidity for an instant.)

I can't find someone anywhere.

Do you control attention?

No, it just goes wherever grabs it.

Do you control feelings?

Absolutely not, I wish I could sometimes!

Do you control choices?

There are thoughts that "I" made a decision but I can't find an I anywhere.

Do you control thoughts?

No

Do you control anything?

On a micro level it does feel like there is some control - like when I go shopping I choose foods which are healthy etc, but then I can only buy what is there. If something is out of stock I have to use something else. I also might choose something based on price but then again, maybe that choice is already made? It is just afterwards I think - oh I should get this one - but actually the decision has already happened without any "I" involved! The thought comes after, and as I already know I can't control thoughts!

3. Now consider, can anything be found for which a 'you' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

No I can't find a you.

4. Take your time with this exercise and occasionally stop for a few moments throughout your day and take a look. When you find your attention caught up in thinking.... stop, take a look....

I have had another look when I was out shopping and making my lunch. I looked in the fridge and got out what was there. I wasn't too hungry so I made a salad with what was available. There wasn't really any thought involved, it just kind of happened. It felt like there was more control when shopping - picking up two items and choosing which one to buy, there was more thought there, and standing and thinking. But then choosing does happen without thinking sometimes - if I am in a rush I will just grab things and chuck them in the basket without much thought!

Was there a "you" that suddenly stopped the trail of thought and said "Oh, I'm lost in thought!" ?
Do you control being "lost in thought?"

No there is no control in being lost in thought. I realised after that I was lost in thought and think - oh I should be more present, but that is just another thought!

Warm wishes,
Ellie

[Noro]

Dear Ellie,

A wonderful exploration!


Now, here are a few pointers towards what is immediate, direct, This, here and now.

What is Real never appears. What appears is not Real.

What is relatively real, i.e. conventionally considered real is not Real because it cannot be found to exist separately when we explore with direct experience.

An appearance of 'you' (i.e. personal thoughts/feelings) is not YOU!

Anything that can be perceived is an appearance in, or to, the open field of awareness.

When you turn and look for yourself, what do you find?

If you say "nothing", then look for that, is 'that' too an appearance or is it "that within which all appearances appear"?
Not nothing, just no thing!

Do the above pointers resonate with you?
How do they land?
Please share the 'felt' sense of your direct experience as you now know so well how to do.
Allow thoughts to be noticed, only as appearances.
What is immediate, direct, arising here and now?

Warmly,

Rowena

[aldertree]

Dear Rowena,

Thank you for these pointers, I have sat quietly with this for a while.

When you turn and look for yourself, what do you find?

If you say "nothing", then look for that, is 'that' too an appearance or is it "that within which all appearances appear"?
Not nothing, just no thing!

Yes my immediate thought when I looked was there is nothing. But then if there is no "I" then of course there is nothing to be found because it isn't there! I then looked for nothing but again you can't look for nothing. I sat with this for a while and there was a tightness in the throat and a pounding in the heart. Then I just sat and observed. There were sensations, colours, light, and sounds. Thoughts kept popping up - where are you? Just a thought! Then another thought - I can't find you so who are you? I sat with this for a while and again, just sensations, sounds, colours, all appearing.

Do the above pointers resonate with you?
How do they land?
Please share the 'felt' sense of your direct experience as you now know so well how to do.
Allow thoughts to be noticed, only as appearances.
What is immediate, direct, arising here and now?

It feels like if there is nothing to find, then there must be no-thing. Just everything appearing - sounds, sights, sensations and thoughts coming and going.

Warmly,
Ellie

[Noro]

Dear Ellie,

Yes my immediate thought when I looked was there is nothing. But then if there is no "I" then of course there is nothing to be found because it isn't there! I then looked for nothing but again you can't look for nothing. I sat with this for a while and there was a tightness in the throat and a pounding in the heart. Then I just sat and observed. There were sensations, colours, light, and sounds. Thoughts kept popping up - where are you? Just a thought! Then another thought - I can't find you so who are you? I sat with this for a while and again, just sensations, sounds, colours, all appearing.

Beautiful! The sensations you felt are totally normal, like the training wheels have been taken off and there is a thought'/feeling - "oh my goodness, there's nothing there!"

It feels like if there is nothing to find, then there must be no-thing. Just everything appearing - sounds, sights, sensations and thoughts coming and going.

Yes, No "thing", can you see how full on this is!!

I would like you to take the rest of the day to allow yourself to BE WITH this one movement of just everything appearing. Feel it with your being and allow the mind to smile at this mystery!

I will be in touch with you tomorrow unless you have something you would like to address.

Warm wishes.
Rowena

[Noro]

Hello Ellie,

When we started this investigation you answered some questions, this was one of your answers:

I don’t want to become isolated from my family and friends. Although they know I meditate regularly and I attend a local Buddhist centre, my husband in particular is scared that I am running away so I haven’t told him I am going through this process. I am worried he won’t understand but I don’t feel I can explain that this isn’t running away but will in fact make me present in each moment. Whenever I bring mindfulness into a conversation he always says - what have you been listening to now!

When you read those words now, how do they land? Are the above concerns still valid? Is there a separate "I" that could become isolated from family and friends? Is there a separate "you" that needs to be understood? Can you be with uncomfortable feelings about not being understood?

and here's another:

It has seemed there has been something missing in my life for a long time. Although I have “everything” - a husband, children, loving family and friends, a job, security - I just always feel dissatisfied. I have tried changing jobs, taking up exercise, hobbies, meditation but nothing seems to change. Through this I have discovered non-duality and it feels like it has become a bit of an obsession. I can’t seem to think about anything else until I get to the truth.

Is there still a quest for truth? Can truth be found separate from all that is appearing within all the sense fields INCLUDING thinking/consciousness? Is there a separate "I" to whom truth will be known?

And here are a few more questions: Remember to answer from direct experience only, please don't think about your answers, let them arise naturally.

How do you relate to 'your' thoughts? Are they 'your' thoughts?
How do you relate to 'your' emotions? Are they 'your' emotions?
Has your relationship to other people changed?
How do you react when conflict/problems arise?
What is you relationship to life in general?
Are there doubts? If so, please describe them.
If you are not the separate self, then who/what are you?

Warm wishes,

Rowena

[aldertree]

Good morning Rowena,

When you read those words now, how do they land? Are the above concerns still valid? Is there a separate "I" that could become isolated from family and friends? Is there a separate "you" that needs to be understood? Can you be with uncomfortable feelings about not being understood?

No, I know there isn't a separate "I" that can be isolated but there is still a feeling of needing to hide this due to not being understood. I still feel like I am reactive in certain situations, and find it difficult to remember in the moment to remain in direct experience. Yesterday I had a disagreement with my husband, I could feel anger arising so I just left the room. I didn't know how else to deal with it. He just thought I was being rude but I just needed a little space. Whilst I was having a little time out, I didn't remember to check in with my direct experience, I just pretended to do something and then went back! Afterwards I was a little calmer and I was able to wait to explain but I wasn't able to stop the anger arising in the moment and just let it be there. All of it kind of happened without thinking! Afterwards I reflected on the situation and thought, when I felt the anger arising I should have checked in with my body and felt what was really there, but I didn't do that. I just felt the anger arising, left the room for a moment and then came back with not much consideration involved!

Is there still a quest for truth? Can truth be found separate from all that is appearing within all the sense fields INCLUDING thinking/consciousness? Is there a separate "I" to whom truth will be known?

Again, I know that truth can't be found separate from what is here now, but there is still a quest for the truth, even though I know this is fruitless!

How do you relate to 'your' thoughts? Are they 'your' thoughts?

I know they are not my thoughts, but I still get carried away in them sometimes. Sometimes I am able to realise - oh just a thought, but then othertimes I cannot!

How do you relate to 'your' emotions? Are they 'your' emotions?

Again, I know they aren't 'my' emotions, but I still get caught up in them (like during yesterday's argument!)

Has your relationship to other people changed?

Yes, I think I am a lot calmer and more present with people. With my mum (who I have a difficult relationship with) I am more often able to take a step back from what she is saying and realise that is just how she is right now and not take it so personally.

How do you react when conflict/problems arise?

I am more frequently taking conflict or problems less personally, but sometimes, depending on my mood and anxiety levels I can get lost in it and am not able to deal with things so well.

What is you relationship to life in general?

It is much freer, I really love just sitting in silence, enjoying a cup of tea and not feeling I need to be anywhere else or do anything. I love just walking in nature and sitting in the garden and watching the world just flow. I do however still have ups and downs. Some days I am very unproductive and then feel guilty about this and try to make up for it later!

Are there doubts? If so, please describe them.
If you are not the separate self, then who/what are you?

Hmm this one is tricky! There are still doubts, at times I feel like there is no self and life just flows but then other times it comes back with avengeance! If I am not the separate self, I am not sure who I am - I guess - no-thing and every-thing!

Warm wishes,
Ellie

[Noro]

Dear Ellie,

Thanks for your sharing.

No, I know there isn't a separate "I" that can be isolated but there is still a feeling of needing to hide this due to not being understood. I still feel like I am reactive in certain situations, and find it difficult to remember in the moment to remain in direct experience. Yesterday I had a disagreement with my husband, I could feel anger arising so I just left the room. I didn't know how else to deal with it. He just thought I was being rude but I just needed a little space. Whilst I was having a little time out, I didn't remember to check in with my direct experience, I just pretended to do something and then went back! Afterwards I was a little calmer and I was able to wait to explain but I wasn't able to stop the anger arising in the moment and just let it be there. All of it kind of happened without thinking! Afterwards I reflected on the situation and thought, when I felt the anger arising I should have checked in with my body and felt what was really there, but I didn't do that. I just felt the anger arising, left the room for a moment and then came back with not much consideration involved!

Yes, you know there isn't a separate "I" and yet there is all that habitual patterning and reacting still remaining. A body mind system with no separate controller will continue to defend and protect in the way that has been set in motion since it was very young. But then, it was without awareness, now, there is a seeing of what is happening and little by little more 'space' will develop as reactive patterns come to the fore of your awareness. There is a buddhist system, called the Fetters which offers a kind of map regarding how identification occurs. Seeing that there is no separate "I" is the first layer of identification and then there are more to work with following on.

It is great that you reflected back on the situation. Think of this as taking a situation to your workshop. You say:

All of it kind of happened without thinking! Afterwards I reflected on the situation and thought, when I felt the anger arising I should have checked in with my body and felt what was really there, but I didn't do that. I just felt the anger arising, left the room for a moment and then came back with not much consideration involved!

Yes, it all happened, one moment arising. Was there any "I" or separate entity that could have done differently at that time?
Could the words "I should have......" be reframed as a desire for deeper understanding of the reactivity patterning? Sparking an inner curiosity to investigate deeper this moment of anger and underlying desire of not being understood? The Fetter model maps this out beautifully. I think it might be a way forward for you and I would be happy to continue to work with you with this.

Again, I know that truth can't be found separate from what is here now, but there is still a quest for the truth, even though I know this is fruitless!

First of all, this is not fruitless! And this offers an opportunity to investigate deeper.
You say "there is still a quest for truth" if those words are an expression (thought content) interpreting some inner impulse, then they are a perfect pointer to the body. Remember no mind without a body!
How does this questing FEEL in the body when it arises. Can you be with those sensations that are already nameless until thought arises with its interpretations?
Watch the movement of body sensations.
Ask "what is this questing" and be with what arises.
Have there been other situations where seeking or a quest for truth have arisen?

Fill in the dotted line with the first thought that comes.
When I find the truth I will be ........................
And then I will be .......................................
And that will mean I can be ...........................
Please share your findings.

How do you relate to 'your' thoughts? Are they 'your' thoughts?

I know they are not my thoughts, but I still get carried away in them sometimes. Sometimes I am able to realise - oh just a thought, but then othertimes I cannot!

It takes a while. Whenever you get carried away.... thinking happening! If reacting to thoughts then look deeper, what are thoughts pointing to.

Has your relationship to other people changed?

Yes, I think I am a lot calmer and more present with people. With my mum (who I have a difficult relationship with) I am more often able to take a step back from what she is saying and realise that is just how she is right now and not take it so personally.

This is good to read. :)

How do you react when conflict/problems arise?

I am more frequently taking conflict or problems less personally, but sometimes, depending on my mood and anxiety levels I can get lost in it and am not able to deal with things so well.

Even thought it has been seen that there is no separate "I" or self running the show, all the patterns of relating, interpreting, connecting with life around us (people, places, things, memories etc.) are still going to run. And it is like a releasing in layers. My motto to myself: "What's in the way IS the way." As a kind of radical embracing of all appearances.

Here is an analogy: The ocean of awareness, upon the surface waves arise, at the shore there might be a sandy beach or shingle, rocks or cliff face. The ocean of awareness can BE WITH all appearances, there is no separation.

What is you relationship to life in general?

It is much freer, I really love just sitting in silence, enjoying a cup of tea and not feeling I need to be anywhere else or do anything. I love just walking in nature and sitting in the garden and watching the world just flow. I do however still have ups and downs. Some days I am very unproductive and then feel guilty about this and try to make up for it later!

Much freer! Good !:) And the inverse has to be expected. There is a continuous flow of movement of appearances to and fro.
Freer, contracted, lighter, contracted, joyous, contracted. Do you see how it goes? One cannot be without the other.

Are there doubts? If so, please describe them.
If you are not the separate self, then who/what are you?

Hmm this one is tricky! There are still doubts, at times I feel like there is no self and life just flows but then other times it comes back with avengeance! If I am not the separate self, I am not sure who I am - I guess - no-thing and every-thing!

Keep looking, and keep feeling or sensing into this question. Don't think, assume or guess anything. Try and notice when you start questioning, thinking about, or guessing and see it for what it is. Thoughts and more thoughts. Thoughts belong in the relative world of the consensus reality which is a world of appearances. Being with belongs to what is present, here and now.

Here is a video for you:
https://youtu.be/9KIpyc_yCTQ?si=oyzhfzg-Hl7UpoGx

Let's leave it like that for today, and then tomorrow we can look at some common theme or pattern where there is reactivity, or sensitivity if you would like?

Warmly,

Rowena

[aldertree]

HI Rowena,

Thank you! I thought I would reply this afternoon but no need to respond till tomorrow. Tomorrow, I am working in the morning but will have some time in the afternoon. Then Saturday is going to be busy again, Sunday less so. From next Thursday my husband (he is a school teacher) will be starting his summer holidays so I may be a little less responsive. I feel like maybe I should just tell him something, maybe not exactly what I am looking for but something at least! I don't like hiding this from him!

Yes, you know there isn't a separate "I" and yet there is all that habitual patterning and reacting still remaining. A body mind system with no separate controller will continue to defend and protect in the way that has been set in motion since it was very young. But then, it was without awareness, now, there is a seeing of what is happening and little by little more 'space' will develop as reactive patterns come to the fore of your awareness. There is a buddhist system, called the Fetters which offers a kind of map regarding how identification occurs. Seeing that there is no separate "I" is the first layer of identification and then there are more to work with following on.

Thank you this is very reassuring! I think I have been expecting some fireworks - I have read so many enlightenment stories that I thought the realisation would be more obvious. But this is just a story, and expectations can't always be met! It can only happen the way it happens! I have heard of the fetters but not really familiar with them, so its good to think of there being layers.

Yes, it all happened, one moment arising. Was there any "I" or separate entity that could have done differently at that time?
Could the words "I should have......" be reframed as a desire for deeper understanding of the reactivity patterning? Sparking an inner curiosity to investigate deeper this moment of anger and underlying desire of not being understood? The Fetter model maps this out beautifully. I think it might be a way forward for you and I would be happy to continue to work with you with this.

No, it couldn't have happened in any other way! Yes, looking at it from a curiosity point of view is great and I think it would be good to work on this more with you if you don't mind. I think there might be a number of underlying emotions I will need to investigate!

How does this questing FEEL in the body when it arises. Can you be with those sensations that are already nameless until thought arises with its interpretations?
Watch the movement of body sensations.
Ask "what is this questing" and be with what arises.

When I ask "what is questing" there is just a blank, open space. The heart started pounding, there was a tightness in the throat and a feeling of dizziness.

Have there been other situations where seeking or a quest for truth have arisen?

I have been on this quest for so long, I'm not sure! I guess I have always been searching for the truth in one way or another!

Fill in the dotted line with the first thought that comes.

When I find the truth I will be ...free
And then I will be ...flowing with life, not against it
And that will mean I can be ...at peace
Please share your findings.

My motto to myself: "What's in the way IS the way." As a kind of radical embracing of all appearances.

Yes, that is beautiful!

Much freer! Good !:) And the inverse has to be expected. There is a continuous flow of movement of appearances to and fro.
Freer, contracted, lighter, contracted, joyous, contracted. Do you see how it goes? One cannot be without the other.

Yes I see that!

Are there doubts?
Keep looking, and keep feeling or sensing into this question. Don't think, assume or guess anything. Try and notice when you start questioning, thinking about, or guessing and see it for what it is. Thoughts and more thoughts. Thoughts belong in the relative world of the consensus reality which is a world of appearances. Being with belongs to what is present, here and now.

Here is a video for you:
https://youtu.be/9KIpyc_yCTQ?si=oyzhfzg-Hl7UpoGx

This video really resonated with me, like I mentioned above, I have been waiting for fireworks! I'm a little snail, that has poked it's head out a little but keeps going back inside the shell. There are definitely some emotions to work on and I am looking forward to slowly dissolving the shell and looking at what wants to be looked at!

Until then,
Ellie

[Noro]

Hi Ellie,

I wanted to reply to you today but we’ve had a power cut for several hours now, so it will have to wait until tomorrow!

And this weekend I am pretty busy too, so we can reconnect either tomorrow later on, or on Monday.

Regarding sharing about your inquiry, the fetters inquiries are a way of looking into what it is that makes us feel defensive or reactive. One could say they are about gaining self-knowledge and a way to dissolve patterns of identification that have formed as a result of conditioning. Something like that. No need to mention a self or not, after all you are well on your way to seeing through that long-held assumption. And just because it is seen that a separate self doesn’t actually exist it doesn’t mean it cannot be fully used in everyday conversation.

This is an excellent video conversation on the subject.

https://youtu.be/eye33kD4uSI?is=sCi0GQFiH0xMZBAS

Warmly,
Rowena