Looking for a guide

[LanieRO]

does this (this presence, this alive moment) care at all about getting anywhere? Or is that just thought, spinning another loop?

To get anywhere, there would have to be a concept of the future. So arriving somewhere is already dependent on the concept of time, and the goal would be another concept on top of that. So no, this present moment doesn’t care about that.

There’s still a sense that I (or someone) does care about reaching inner healing still. There’s tension and tightness and beliefs that aren’t serving me popping up all the time. They are resolving - there’s a constant loosening of various knots in the nervous system, but there’s also impatience at the many remaining knots. So I know these things aren't part of presence, but they still are here as thoughts and feelings.

If the nervous system’s pattern is defensiveness, irritation, vigilance — then of course those will arise. The question becomes: are they happening to someone? Or are they simply appearing and dissolving, like everything else, within what’s already whole?

They are appearing and dissolving within everything else.

But they also cause a lot of suffering. I have a strong sense that they will fall completely at some point, but there’s also a sense of exhaustion from carrying them for so long.

Are labels the truth or this is just a story about sensations? Really look: what in the sensations makes them frustration or irritation? What if these are preparing the system for action like an adrenalin rush (another story of course)?

I see how labels aren’t truth and are often wrong, but at the same time, things the nervous system tells us are often things that need attention.

When I sit with these sensation of frustration or anger, I get a lot coming up from childhood and from being vigilant and a strong sense of abandonment. This is also playing out in some of my relationships right now and is something that certainly needs to be dealt with. So yes, it’s just a story, but it’s also a story about the underlying pattern that led to this point.

I find it really hard to know when to dismiss the story of sensations as “just a story” and when to lean into sensations to see if there is some deeper need going on behind them. It seems like there’s thought-based stories that take place in the mind and are often entertaining, even if infuriating. They loop endlessly and seem to recruit more and more emotional responses the longer they play out. On the other hand, there are sensations in the nervous system, that when leaned into seem to say something that is translated by the mind into words - the mind doesn’t begin the process.

I think to your question - there’s nothing inherent in a feeling that makes it anger, and it could get mistaken for something else (e.g. anxiety and food poisoning feel kinda similar). Also, sometimes they are just automatic bodily responses to stimuli that don’t necessarily mean anything.

Is there anyone/anything that needs this defence?

I think no, in terms of reality - no one is attacking me - but yes, in terms of nervous system wiring - there’s a sense of vigilance because my nervous system is wired to believe I will be rejected for showing any signs of need or vulnerability. There’s something quite foundational in my identity that can’t put down the armour.

What if those reactions could arise and fall, without meaning anything about “how far” you are? And of course…Does this care about what you want this to be?

I think you’re pointing at how ‘true seeing’ can still hold all of a person’s flaws and neuroses and is still true regardless of how much path is yet to be walked.

That’s nice. I like that.

I think we probably all have perfectionistic tendencies and things we want fixed and perhaps a lot of anxiety and impatience towards getting these done - fixating on this is just another story. These will unfold in their own time without a doer.

Thanks for sharing a bit more about your journey. I’m curious too about what you’ve gotten out of this process - what kind of freedom have you found? Not for comparison or anything; I’m just curious to hear from a non-influencer what a real journey sounds like. :)

I was also curious if you’re a vegetarian. (I’m not, and often feel bad about this, and take steps in that direction, and then forget).

[poppyseed]

Hi Lanie,
I really appreciate your honesty here — there’s something deeply grounding in how clearly you're observing the whole landscape, without rushing to fix or bypass anything.

There’s still a sense that I (or someone) does care about reaching inner healing still. There’s tension and tightness and beliefs that aren’t serving me popping up all the time. They are resolving - there’s a constant loosening of various knots in the nervous system, but there’s also impatience at the many remaining knots. So I know these things aren't part of presence, but they still are here as thoughts and feelings.

This doesn’t orient around becoming. It just is — even when the mind throws up loops about future healing or the frustration of not being “there” yet.
And yet, what you’re describing — the arising of tightness, the loops, the storylines that pull on the nervous system — it’s all part of what’s unfolding. Not a mistake. Not outside presence. Just patterns moving, self-organising. As you said, “They are appearing and dissolving within everything else.”
The mind wants to make meaning — to measure progress, to fix the knots, to be done. But what if the healing is just the loosening of identification with those very stories? What if it's not about solving frustration but no longer being caught up in what frustration is supposed to mean? The knots are just knots and not even that. Without a label, without a narrative — what is a knot, really? Just sensation appearing… already dissolving… already part of what is. No need to carry it, fix it, or resist it. Even the sense of tightness is allowed to be here, without a name, without needing a reason or a remedy. The freedom is to experience all, good, bad, and the ugly, without judgement that it’s wrong. A knot in the stomach is a knot in the stomach, and nothing more – not fear, not anxiety and not a story about something that brings fear or anxiety. And so you laugh. Till next time. ;)
What remains when even “knot” is seen as just another word passing through?

I find it really hard to know when to dismiss the story of sensations as 'just a story’ and when to lean in,

That’s a powerful insight. Maybe it’s not an either/or. There’s a kind of listening that doesn’t resist the story or over-identify with it — like letting a wave wash through without trying to surf it or stop it. No need to name it as “anger” or “abandonment” unless that’s useful in the moment. Sometimes the stories offer clarity, sometimes they just want to be heard and let go.
But there’s a subtle habit embedded in what you shared: the idea that “you” need to decide when to dismiss or lean in — as if there’s a separate self behind the scenes managing experience.
Is that really what’s happening?
When the thought “should I lean in or dismiss?” arises, it’s just that — a thought. It doesn’t mean there’s someone behind it making a choice. And whatever happens next — leaning in or not — also just happens. Can you find the “one” who is choosing between those?
Even the desire to “get it right” — to respond appropriately to sensation — is another movement of thought. What if all of this is just more arising content? What if the nervous system response, the feeling, the labelling, the pulling away or turning toward — all of it — is just what’s unfolding, with no central agent in charge?
Does anything actually need managing?
Picture this… You are sitting on the couch and a thought appears: “I feel like ice cream”, followed by “no I shouldn’t”. Next thing you are getting up going to the fridge. Other times, you don’t. None of this is in your control. Trust that life is unfolding by itself and that there is no other way than this.
Look at this moment now, before any naming. Is there a manager here? Or is that, too, just a thought appearing in this open space?
Let the sensations speak, if they do. Let the mind narrate, if it does. It’s all the same weather passing through the sky.

I think no, in terms of reality - no one is attacking me - but yes, in terms of nervous system wiring - there’s a sense of vigilance because my nervous system is wired to believe I will be rejected for showing any signs of need or vulnerability. There’s something quite foundational in my identity that can’t put down the armour.

Yes, these deep patterns of self-protection often feel foundational. But even that sense of (feels like) “I can’t put it down” is part of the old structure surfacing, dissolving. Nothing needs to be forced. If it’s still here, it’s because it still believes it’s needed. Let it fall apart when it’s ready. Even the exhaustion has a place. Just keep on looking what is really happening.

I think you’re pointing at how ‘true seeing’ can still hold all of a person’s flaws and neuroses and is still true regardless of how much path is yet to be walked… I think we probably all have perfectionistic tendencies and things we want fixed and perhaps a lot of anxiety and impatience towards getting these done - fixating on this is just another story. These will unfold in their own time without a doer.

I really hear you on wanting to feel like there’s a path and movement, without turning that into another perfectionist project. That’s the paradox, right? That even the craving to be fully free is just another ripple on the ocean of already-freedom. These “flaws and neurosis” will appear until they are seen as such. I’m not saying bypass them as declaring them empty - no. Just stay with them and see them in a new light. Allow all to appear as it is – no resistance, just meet all with unconditional love and compassion. A sensation is here to be felt.

I’m curious too about what you’ve gotten out of this process - what kind of freedom have you found? Not for comparison or anything; I’m just curious to hear from a non-influencer what a real journey sounds like. :)
I was also curious if you’re a vegetarian. (I’m not, and often feel bad about this, and take steps in that direction, and then forget).

I’m happy to share more sometime — but just to say, it’s not been tidy or linear. Much of what shifted here came through the collapse of things I was trying hardest to hold together. It’s been less of a journey and more like the gradual disillusionment of trying to be someone who gets anywhere.
Also… vegetarian? Haha, ironically I am at the moment but entirely for health reasons with my husband. When there’s guilt or identity wrapped in it, it becomes a grind. But when it’s simply a response to what feels appropriate in the moment, it flows more naturally. No rules needed here either.
Sending love in the middle of whatever “knots” are untying today. You’re not outside presence, not even for a second.

Love
Rali

[LanieRO]

Hi Rali,

Thanks for the questions here. You know that feeling when you really don’t want to think about something from a certain perspective, but you really know you need to? That was the experience with these…

But what if the healing is just the loosening of identification with those very stories? What if it's not about solving frustration but no longer being caught up in what frustration is supposed to mean? The knots are just knots and not even that. Without a label, without a narrative — what is a knot, really?

Uuuuggggh… there is a real identification here. I suppose there’s a really old shame-story that is asking “what is wrong with me” and desperately trying to find the answer for as long as I can remember. The knots are the physical manifestation of that, and there’s a belief that the answer will come once the knot is untied. (In reality, once the knot is untied, it reveals another knot).

There’s a lot of resistance to the energy of the knot and to the presence of the knot and a strong belief that the knot needs to go away and that will fix everything. Probably. Almost definitely.

The knot might also serve as a project or a distraction - just fix this, and then I can go back to seeing reality. It is a powerful distraction to “just this.”

Is there really no value in intentionally investigating the knot? What about shadow work? What about issues that we identify with that come up with force? There really is confusion over whether to sit with the knot and hear it out, or whether to just carry on and let it be. I have experienced real feelings of freedom after sitting with knots in the past. But maybe the knot undid itself, regardless of whether or not I was sitting with it - it let go on its own time.

What remains when even “knot” is seen as just another word passing through?

Just a current of energy.

But there’s a subtle habit embedded in what you shared: the idea that “you” need to decide when to dismiss or lean in — as if there’s a separate self behind the scenes managing experience.
Is that really what’s happening?

Umm, good point, I guess not.

It doesn’t mean there’s someone behind it making a choice. And whatever happens next — leaning in or not — also just happens. Can you find the “one” who is choosing between those?

Nope. The leaning in or not leaning in is depending mostly on external factors. How structured is my work day? Do I have time alone? I did very much lean in today as it’s my work-from-home day and I’ve got the house to myself - tomorrow is going to be a lot busier and I know I won’t lean in. There was basically zero chance that I wouldn’t poke at this energetic knot today either - I tend to be curious and pick at things. There’s no way I would have avoided this while at home. There was no choosing; there was personal conditioning and outside circumstances and not choice.

Even the desire to “get it right” — to respond appropriately to sensation — is another movement of thought. What if all of this is just more arising content? What if the nervous system response, the feeling, the labelling, the pulling away or turning toward — all of it — is just what’s unfolding, with no central agent in charge?
Does anything actually need managing?

I guess not. Not only does the knot not need managing, but my compulsive attempts at managing the knot also don’t need to be managed. Let it be, and let the letting it be also be.

These knots are hard to let go of. There’s a fear that they will be there forever, constantly entangling me, if I let them be. I’m afraid that I need to nag my neuroses and be overly there for them until they give up and disappear. There is a real fear in letting go of this.

Is there a manager here? Or is that, too, just a thought appearing in this open space?

The imagined manager is doing a really good impression of a real manager today. But yeah, just a thought.

I really hear you on wanting to feel like there’s a path and movement, without turning that into another perfectionist project. That’s the paradox, right? That even the craving to be fully free is just another ripple on the ocean of already-freedom. These “flaws and neurosis” will appear until they are seen as such. I’m not saying bypass them as declaring them empty - no. Just stay with them and see them in a new light. Allow all to appear as it is – no resistance, just meet all with unconditional love and compassion. A sensation is here to be felt.

Yeah… this resonates. Letting these things come, even difficult, maladaptive pieces of ourselves. There has been such a motivation to fix myself that when I find a broken piece it’s like “A-HA!” and I feel like I need to remove it and repair it right away. But it’s more like befriending a stray cat, requiring quietness and patience and trust building. And patience, which feels in short supply sometimes. :)

[poppyseed]

Hi Lanie,
So many of your reflections feel like they’re pointing right into the heart of the patterning — especially the sense of needing to manage, fix, or solve something before “real seeing” can happen. That whole drive — to get the knot out so presence can begin — is itself just another appearance in presence, isn’t it?

Is there really no value in intentionally investigating the knot?

Maybe the invitation here is not to discard all investigation, but to see whether it’s happening because it’s simply unfolding that way… or because a subtle identity is trying to earn freedom by doing it "right." The difference isn’t in the activity itself, but in what it rests upon — efforting or openness. And sometimes what looks like deep shadow work or inner inquiry is really just the system relaxing enough to let something loosen on its own.

As you said so clearly:

Not only does the knot not need managing, but my compulsive attempts at managing the knot also don’t need to be managed.

That’s it. The whole drama — the knot, the manager, the commentary, the fear — all just part of this wide, allowing field. There’s so much compassion in letting the cat come to you in its own time.
And yes, the fear of letting go of the fixer role is valid — because for many of us, it’s been the only identity that felt purposeful or safe. But what if the healing is actually in allowing that part, too, to soften without demand? Not to eliminate it, but to no longer believe it needs to run the show.
This isn’t about bypassing anything, like you said — it’s about letting even the healing impulse be seen for what it is: another ripple in what’s already whole.

I think it will be a good idea to clarify the difference between shadow work (as practiced in the fetter model), bypassing, and psychoanalysis/traditional therapy. The distinction hinges primarily on the role of the psychological story and the commitment to confronting internal discomfort.
In Psychoanalysis/traditional therapeutic approaches, such as Freudian or Jungian shadow work, there is "somewhere to hide because you have a story". The initial stage of therapeutic work often involves looking at the trauma and the underlying belief, which is considered the first layer of deception. This is often where people spend time dealing with the story, such as issues related to one's parents or childhood.
In the context of awakening work, the big difference is that you do not believe in the story; you know it's just a story. The underlying story about one's past (e.g., "my mom could never show herself love") is irrelevant; what matters is what the story points at underneath. The time should not be spent discussing the irrelevant story itself, but identifying the underlying belief.

Shadow work, in this context, refers to the deliberate and often painful inquiry necessary to dissolve identification, moving beyond the superficial story to the direct, raw experience in the body. Shadow work involves looking into whatever is causing an underlying reaction, which manifests as a contraction or "icky sensation" in the body. This work requires focusing on the sensation itself, rather than the mental story about it. The goal is to acknowledge the trauma that is still locked in the body. This is achieved by creating space for the contraction or underlying belief (such as fear, anger, guilt, or shame) and meeting it with unconditional acceptance, love, and compassion. The process of dealing with trauma involves three stages: acknowledging that the issue is there, accepting what is (which is often the most difficult part), and finally, understanding which follows acceptance all by itself.

Spiritual bypassing is the opposite of authentic inquiry; it is the act of using intellectual or spiritual concepts to avoid the emotional work of dealing with underlying beliefs or trauma. Bypassing is a diversion that occurs when the mind attempts to slither away from engaging with mental states and sensations. It is done because it is uncomfortable to be in the body and stay with the underlying feelings. This frequently involves using the insight that "there is no I" or "no separate self" to prematurely dismiss trauma ("I'm fine"). This is ineffective because the trauma is still locked in the body. Bypassing can occur when someone takes on insights as a belief rather than fully seeing it for themselves, thus avoiding the necessary engagement. The tendency to divert is often indicated by the use of verbal indicators such as blaming, shaming, complaining, and explaining.
In essence, psychoanalysis or therapy may address the narrative surrounding the trauma (the story), but shadow/fetter work (inquiry) demands turning away from the story entirely to confront and create space for the resulting uncomfortable sensation in the body, while bypassing is the trick the ego plays to skip the uncomfortable confrontation altogether by relying on intellectual insights or deflection.

To clarify with an analogy, if THIS were a room filled with dust (trauma/unresolved feelings):
Bypassing is putting on spiritual sunglasses and declaring, "This room is perfectly clean because I know scientifically that dust doesn't exist," thereby ignoring the physical irritation the dust causes.
Psychoanalysis is creating a detailed, documented history of the dust (who created it, why it is harmful, and what it looks like).
Shadow Work (inquiry/looking) is using a feather duster (compassion and attention) to gently clean the dust where it resides (the contraction in the body), without needing to review the history of the dust or claim that the room is perfectly clean before the cleaning is done.

I hope this helps!
Love
Rali

[LanieRO]

Hi Rali,

Thanks for your thoughts - these really landed.

Is this whole thing just a series of finding subtler and subtler ways that I am selfing? The manager of psychological knots?

I was able to put down the effort on this today and it was interesting. A coworker said something that hurt my feelings - not because he meant to, but because he bumped up against an old wound. I was able to feel it and expand to allow that feeling to be there. The story of the old wound didn’t activate and I didn’t feel much anger or blame at the coworker. There was a letting go that felt more accessible than it usually does - usually the story of the old wound comes up and distracts and I start getting stuck in thoughts about how I need to fix and heal myself.

And yes, the fear of letting go of the fixer role is valid — because for many of us, it’s been the only identity that felt purposeful or safe. But what if the healing is actually in allowing that part, too, to soften without demand? Not to eliminate it, but to no longer believe it needs to run the show.

I like the way you said this. That really resonates. There’s a lot of sense of “I” in fixing, and fixing too is a concept that relies on stories which are thoughts.

More powerful than fixing is letting broken things be as they are.

To clarify with an analogy, if THIS were a room filled with dust (trauma/unresolved feelings):
Bypassing is putting on spiritual sunglasses and declaring, "This room is perfectly clean because I know scientifically that dust doesn't exist," thereby ignoring the physical irritation the dust causes.
Psychoanalysis is creating a detailed, documented history of the dust (who created it, why it is harmful, and what it looks like).
Shadow Work (inquiry/looking) is using a feather duster (compassion and attention) to gently clean the dust where it resides (the contraction in the body), without needing to review the history of the dust or claim that the room is perfectly clean before the cleaning is done.

Love this analogy. I tend towards the psychoanalysis side of things. I find it interesting. But it is just story, and blame, responsibility, guilt, innocence, justice, and fairness are just concepts. Just clean the dust.

[poppyseed]

Hi Lanie,
I really loved reading this — especially how clearly you're starting to see the distinction between being with what's here and managing it.

A coworker said something that hurt my feelings - not because he meant to, but because he bumped up against an old wound. I was able to feel it and expand to allow that feeling to be there. The story of the old wound didn’t activate and I didn’t feel much anger or blame at the coworker.

That's it, isn't it? The wound still registered, but without dragging you into the whole storyline. Just the feeling — allowed, felt, passed through. That’s such a clean kind of intelligence the system seems to find on its own, when left alone.

Is this whole thing just a series of finding subtler and subtler ways that I am selfing? The manager of psychological knots?

That’s such a sharp way of putting it. The idea of a “self” is sneaky and keeps dressing up as helpful roles — the fixer, the manager, the seeker, the one who wants to do it right. But that’s all just more activity arising within this, right? The stories about the story.
The fear of dropping the fixer is real, and totally understandable. For a lot of people, that role has been tightly fused with care, safety, value, meaning. So of course there's nervous system tension when that identity begins to loosen. But like you said — that role, too, is made of thought. And thought doesn’t need to be fought or banished, just not believed. It is just an empty (e.g. soccer) commentary to the unravelling that is happening already, on its own. The commentary is not needed for the unravelling to happen – if fed it just produces more commentary…

Love this analogy. I tend towards the psychoanalysis side of things. I find it interesting. But it is just story, and blame, responsibility, guilt, innocence, justice, and fairness are just concepts. Just clean the dust.

This made me smile — yeah, same here: psychoanalysis has its own seductive pull, right? It can feel empowering, like “If I can just understand the origin of this wound, I’ll be free.” But sometimes that’s just the mind looping through old records while the dust quietly piles up. And healing isn't always an “aha” or a solution. It can be something simpler: just not resisting what’s here. Letting the dust settle, or move, or do whatever dust does. Without commentary.
The fact that you're noticing these subtler movements — without trying to correct them — that’s already a shift. It’s not about stopping the story. It’s seeing that the story was never really about anyone.

Thank you for continuing to show up with such honesty. It's been beautiful to watch this all unfold in you. We’ve been circling the heart of this for a while. Is there anything else you want to inquire together? Want to explore a few checkpoint questions, just to see what’s here?

If you ever feel ready to explore these, I’m happy to go there with you — gently, without pressure. There’s nothing to prove and nowhere to get to. Just more seeing what’s already here.
And of course, I’ll still be here after those, too — if anything stirs, if dust kicks up, if you just want to sit in the quiet and look again. None of this has to be tidy.
We're not walking to a finish line. Just walking.

Love
Rali

[LanieRO]

Hi Rali,

Gosh, I must say, these questions are getting easier to answer. I remember initially spending so much time looking, and trying, and then trying to not try while looking which was somehow even harder than just regular trying. I see the direction. I know where I’m looking. And I understand that seeing clearly comes and goes.

That's it, isn't it? (in regards to a coworker’s not-super-nice comment)

Yeah, I guess so. I wasn’t all saintly about the incident - I felt kinda mad later on. It was let go in the moment but it came back later. I didn’t bring it back, though, it just did that.

the fixer, the manager, the seeker, the one who wants to do it right. But that’s all just more activity arising within this, right?

Yeah. They’re getting easier to drop, or subtler, or weaker. There’s often a sense of a re-asserted “I” that lacks the qualities of management or choice or awareness - which is a relief to not have those parts, but it feels like the self is simply a “being” that is existing but with no qualities or presence.

Is there anything else you want to inquire together? Want to explore a few checkpoint questions, just to see what’s here?

Check point questions sound good.

I think I’ve always struggled with identifying with stories and teasing apart the threads - the forensic analysis of the dust, as you said, rather than just cleaning it up - and that feels a bit better (at this exact moment) but is still a bit of a tendency. I still have strong feelings of anger, and I think the nervous system is unwinding some old patterns but there’s doubt and anxiety about that and whether or not it's definitely happening. I don’t feel like I’m done! I’m not totally confident that no self has totally worked! :)

In all seriousness, this seemed really quick and I thought it would be harder. Is that your experience?

[poppyseed]

Hi Lanie,
This is really landing beautifully — not as something tidy or finished, but as something honest, human, and alive.
And yeah, it can be surprisingly simple, right? Not always easy, but simple. It’s just that everything else (the seeking, the fixing, the refining) can get really good at disguising simplicity as complexity.
Let’s explore a few of the checkpoint questions together — no pressure, no final exam energy, just a chance to look freshly and see what’s here. We can sit with anything that comes up after, too — I’ll still be here if needed, even after these.

Here are the questions. Please answer all questions in full, when you are ready. Please answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer Give examples rather than explanations
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?


Love
Rali

[LanieRO]

Hi Rali,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

Perhaps. I haven’t found it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not there somewhere. Having no evidence for something isn’t quite the same as having evidence against it.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

I think I had claimed a lot of things as a “self” that are actually quite independent. A lot of conditioning from family and early life I took as my personality, a lot of feelings that arose I mistook as a personal chosen response, and I thought that I authored the thoughts that chattered on in my head. These go on with or without my claiming them as “me.”

It’s also quite clear that the mind claims things - decisions, thoughts - and adds the thought that “I did that” on top. This can be convincing, but isn’t true.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I feel a bit more unstable and moodier and like I have less filters to manage things with.

There are times I feel quite free and the world looks beautiful and everything - the good and the so-called bad - are in a state of flow that I’m completely at peace with. Then other times I feel resistance kick up and I feel on edge and like I can’t cope and there’s fear of losing control of this process. Feelings of no-reason anger come up, directed at nothing in particular, (or like, maybe people who leave dishes out or send pointless emails) and everything seems really hard and I don’t want to do anything. I have to wear a mask to get through the day and the mask is very exhausting to put on. There’s a lot of anxiety in this state over what I should be doing or how I should be looking for clarity. It gets nowhere; clarity will just randomly come back from out of nowhere again.

There’s a lot of back-and-forth of whether the mind is claiming the thoughts, moods, decisions.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Identifying with awareness was really sticky for me and trying to see whether or not awareness exists gets really conceptual (as opposed to experiential). There’s also a strong feeling that I “do” awareness by “remembering” it. This habit is also hard to drop.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Decisions are made according to the causes and conditions around. They’re made before I realize they’re made and I had a lot less to do with it than I thought.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Intentions are thoughts about what one is supposed to do in the future. I intend to go to the gym tomorrow morning, probably. An intention made now doesn’t have as much weight as one would like to imagine when the time comes - like new year’s resolutions.

The inspiration for intentions doesn’t come from me - they’re made by habits, the people in my life, and what this person believes is a good idea to do or aspires to be.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

There is no free will. There’s no room for it between biology and conditioning. A person has thoughts and feelings that they aren’t in control of. From these their actions and reactions are formed.

My partner and I went out for dinner tonight. The reasons behind it were I had a WFH day and he had a long day. We have no good food at home and neither of us felt like cooking. We could afford it without stress. We haven’t gone out for dinner in a few weeks. It wasn’t raining, for once. None of these things were within our control.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

We make choices in our guts before our rational brain knows about it. Rationalizing it out is a waste of time once you understand that the decision has already been made. (I used to get so, so, so anxious about making decisions…. It was awful). Now, choices happen based on feeling. Do I go to this coffee shop or that one to do my work? No weighing of options or thinking about which one has which attributes; I just look to see which direction my feet have already started walking towards.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

Another illusion.

I was riding my bike the other day and feeling particularly cautious about traffic and kept reminding myself to be vigilant. I could hear the mind saying “check that way” and “check your blind spot” and “keep an eye on that guy.” And then after a while I got lost in thought about something else, and noticed that the exact same watchfulness was happening, with or without my intention to be watchful, and with or without a thought claiming that “I” was being watchful.

We remind people to “be careful” all the time, but no one can control how careful they are being. They can say it to themselves, but that does very little to actually improve anyone’s safety.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

Everyone just carries on, doing their thing, behaving according to the ways that it is in their nature to behave. People and things bump up against each other and everyone is a little bit changed as a result, and carries on in their slightly altered ways.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

At the best of times, I am completely irresponsible and just behave according to my nature.

At the less good times, I feel like I make a lot of mistakes. Bad habits flare up and I’m struggling with irritability and mood. It feels like I have to gain some kind of control and take responsibility for my behaviour to keep it from spiralling.

6) Anything to add?

Yeah… there’s a lot of story around my husband and it’s still very sticky. He’s in the early stages of a very serious neurological disease. Every time something happens - he breaks a dish, he loses something, or he has a weird reaction to something - it’s never the dish, the loss, or the reaction. The story is always what this means for disease progression, what this means about his capacity, what this means I need to watch out for.

I don’t know how to hold this alongside everything else. There are serious and important implications related to his functionality.

[poppyseed]

Hi Lanie,
Thanks for your thoughtful responses — there’s a lot of clarity shining through here already. That said, your answer to the first question tells me something important: there may still be a belief, somewhere, that the self is real but hidden. That it might still be found if only you looked in the right way, or deeply enough. Shifting is different from not finding a self. Not finding something doesn’t prove that it doesn’t exist. As you said you simply couldn’t find it. In the shift, it is positively seen that there is no self.
Maybe ask yourself what is missing. What is not there now that you expected to be there? Or what is there that you expected to be gone? The shift is an altered state, but it passes. Then you are back to your baseline experience, minus the me. I am sorry to disappoint, but you will never end up in a permanently altered state, a permanent high. It is always, “And now chop wood and carry water”.

So look now…Can you find this self right now — not theoretically, but in direct experience? Is it anywhere in the sensations, in the thoughts, in the awareness, in the energy of this moment? When will it appear – in the future? All you have is this present moment. So check right now!
It’s not about gathering evidence against the self. It’s about noticing that there’s no need for any evidence — the whole idea of “a separate self” was only ever a story, one that no sensation or experience has ever actually confirmed.
Is there anyone reading these words? Anyone who hasn’t found a self?
Look again — not for “who,” but for where this “I” would even be.
No rush. This is the simplest thing — not hidden, not far away, just unnoticed because of habit. You’re very close. And yes, I’ll be right here through this and beyond.

Love
Rali

[LanieRO]

Hi Rali,

I seem to be shifting back and forth a fair bit lately. Sometimes it seems, maybe not obvious, but at least likely that there’s no self. Sometimes it seems a bit fanciful. I think the other seeing, like through choice and free will, seems much more settled and I can see that almost any time that I look for it, but the more vague areas, like awareness and simple a felt sense of a self, are a bit more challenging to consistently see.

in the shift, it is positively seen that there is no self.
Maybe ask yourself what is missing. What is not there now that you expected to be there? Or what is there that you expected to be gone?

I can hear the panic thoughts and something activated and frantically trying to fix something. It seems like things are really stirred up and automatically I find myself feeling guilty or confused or anxious - the feelings are claimed, automatically, by a thing that feels like a self.

This isn’t all the time, though. But when i do feel that way, I also feel like a self.

Can you find this self right now — not theoretically, but in direct experience? Is it anywhere in the sensations, in the thoughts, in the awareness, in the energy of this moment? When will it appear – in the future?

I keep thinking that there is certainly a self, but that it’s advantageous to not believe in it so I have to “see” that it’s “gone” and once that really sinks in everything will change.

When I look for a self, I see the blank slate upon which the conditioning and biology and experience have left their imprints. I think this might be another way of saying the self is the awareness that all things happen in. And it’s clear that awareness is a concept… but isn’t it also true that it’s a concept that awareness is a concept? I can see how what I’m picturing as awareness isn’t necessary and isn’t mine. But then getting rid of or disidentifying with this concept of awareness makes everything come up in a different way without the container of awareness. But that’s just a concept too.

Put another way, if I get rid of the container labelled “awareness” there’s just blackness left and I think I’m identifying with the blackness. I think the blackness is actually just another object? I don’t think this is a problem I can visualize my way out of… the visualization is the problem.

Is there anyone reading these words? Anyone who hasn’t found a self?

I think there’s a double negative here and I made myself dizzy with the last question.

[poppyseed]

Hi Lanie,
You're doing really well — and you're not alone in how this all unfolds. The mind is doing what it knows: circling, scanning, trying to find something solid — a self, a knower, or even a “right” kind of awareness. But it’s beautiful that you’re beginning to see that even those habits are just appearances within what’s already happening.

I keep thinking that there is certainly a self, but that it’s advantageous to not believe in it so I have to 'see' that it’s 'gone' and once that really sinks in everything will change.

This is such a helpful statement to see clearly. Do you notice the hidden assumption here?
That you — a someone/something — must see no-self for it to be true.
But that very assumption is the illusion.
When you look right now:
Is there actually a self here that is observing thoughts and feelings?
Or is that just another thought — claiming experience that is already unfolding?
Even the idea of a “container” — like awareness or blackness — is often just another fallback for the sense of self. But look closer. Is there really a black void? Or is even that just another sensation or image, made into a concept?
With eyes closed, is there even true blackness? Or is there a subtle reddish glow, floating specks, shadows and flickers? Maybe a sense of space, but also subtle sensations and colour? “Blackness” is already a label — and like all labels, it assumes a container that isn’t there. If it was an inherent thing it should be possible to be experienced on its own – nothing else, zilch. Is that possible? If there is always something else then it is a story about things arising in blackness/awareness. Also are there separate objects to be experienced (e.g. sensations, colours)? The blackness is glued to the inseparable colour_sensation_thought – this. There is no-thing to appear in no-thing – there is just inseparable, whole THIS.
Which picture describes best DE?


Not seems like/feels like. What is the actual evidence? If there are seems like things, LOOK directly and describe – colour, smell, taste, sound, sensation.
There’s no awareness “over there” holding things. There’s no self behind or inside any of this. It’s just what’s arising. No center. No watcher. Just experience experiencing itself. Even that is too much to assume – there is just this.
And in those moments of panic or confusion — who is it happening to? Can you find a “me” it belongs to? Or is that just a thought about a self, arising like all others?
This doesn't need managing. Even the effort to “do it right” is just more arising content — part of the flow. Let that be seen too, gently. When confusion shows up, just check – is the sensation confused, is the word “c-o-n-f-u-s-i-o-n” confused? Who/what is actually confused? Where is this “thing that feels like a self”?

And yes, if you want to keep going, I’m here. Even after the checkpoint questions, if it helps.
You’re doing just fine.
Love
Rali

[poppyseed]

just one more thing...

Is there anyone reading these words? Anyone who hasn’t found a self?

I think there’s a double negative here and I made myself dizzy with the last question.

Then look for - who is looking for self or no self? No escaping this one:). Is there anything as an entity that sits in a mini arm chair somewhere looking for evidence? How exactly is it looking - with eyes, on screens, magnifying glass? Put some actual details to that story :)

[LanieRO]

Hi Rali,

I think I saw it. It was last night as I was going to bed I was still looking, and then the mind turned it around and I realized I was looking the wrong way. It was like I was looking at the finger pointing at the moon. I followed the finger and looked for the moon, and saw many things that were not the moon, and kept searching and growing increasingly frustrated. The question that came to me last night was “is there even a finger pointing” and I started looking for who or what was even pointing at the moon, and that turned out to be the assumption. (I know that’s not how that metaphor usually works but I can’t remember how it goes and that’s what came to mind as to how to describe it).

I couldn’t find a looker or a seeker. I previously assumed the seeker was in consciousness somewhere, but it was much closer than that.

Do you notice the hidden assumption here? (about trying to believe in no self enough for it to sink in)

Yeah, totally. That’s really apparent, and sometimes beliefs are subtle and sneaky.

Is there actually a self here that is observing thoughts and feelings?
Or is that just another thought — claiming experience that is already unfolding?

There is at least the thought that is claiming other thoughts and feelings. That has dropped (for now). The sense of a self with these things isn’t here at the moment.

Is there really a black void? Or is even that just another sensation or image, made into a concept?
With eyes closed, is there even true blackness? Or is there a subtle reddish glow, floating specks, shadows and flickers? Maybe a sense of space, but also subtle sensations and colour? Also are there separate objects to be experienced (e.g. sensations, colours)?

No, it’s not real blackness in DE. The blackness was more a concept. I don’t know that I can drop all concepts yet. There are still constructed mental images that are being relied on to make sense of what is happening.

Which picture describes best DE?

The one with just the line - there’s no boundary or container for it.

And in those moments of panic or confusion — who is it happening to? Can you find a “me” it belongs to? Or is that just a thought about a self, arising like all others?

When that comes up it’s like all the waters get stirred up and everything becomes murky and confusing. It has not yet been possible to see through all of the murkiness to notice that it’s just happening. I’m hoping that as things stabilize and increasingly feel grounded, it will be more possible to realize that it’s just happening and not personal.

[poppyseed]

Hi Lanie,
Reading your last post, there’s a real sense of something softening, loosening — like a subtle unwinding of the efforting that was once needed just to keep looking. It’s beautiful to witness.

I realized I was looking the wrong way. It was like I was looking at the finger pointing at the moon… and then I started looking for who or what was even pointing at the moon.

I love that! That lands with real clarity. You’re right — it’s not even about what’s being seen, but the belief in a seer, in someone doing the seeing. That assumed center has always felt just out of reach because it was never there. Not behind the eyes. Not in the body. Not anywhere. No mini arm chair or a magnifying glass. Just another thought, trying to tie experience together with a neat bow of “me.”
What really stood out too was:

The sense of a self with these things isn’t here at the moment.

That’s it. When the self is no longer assumed, the sensations and reactions don’t stop — but they’re no longer personal. No longer happening to someone. Just weather passing through, in an already-perfect sky. So is there a chance that self might come back? Has Lanie even been there for one second? Or it was always a wrong label assigned to subtle sensations, colours and thoughts?

You are right – the moon and the finger are not the same. You can miss and forget the pointing entirely if all you can see is the pointing tool. The moon is not the finger. But also the seer of that moon ... if you turn around the finger – what is it pointing to then?
Focus on an object – for example on a tree outside. Draw an imaginary line toward the tree. So on one side of the line is the tree. What is on the other side of the line? Is there a viewer sitting in an movie chair? Thought usually offers nothing but maybe a mental image of “blackness”/black empty space behind the head/eyes, but even the concept of emptiness is still an image.
Look further… How long is the line? Is there even a distance between that observation spot and the tree, or the tree is right here (not out there)? Disregarding the contrast in colours, is there even a tree in space, or just colour (multicolour)/the seen (with no black behind it)? Is that distance made of anything else but just colour?

When that comes up it’s like all the waters get stirred up and everything becomes murky…

Yes. That’s completely natural. Clarity comes and goes – noticing happens, not noticing happens. But even the fog is just more weather — not a failure, not a regression. If anything, it’s another opportunity to see: even this belongs to no one. There’s no ‘you’ underneath it trying to get out. No self playing hide and seek. The seeing itself is untouched.

It sounds like something has shifted, or is shifting. And whether it’s “final” or not doesn’t really matter — there’s clearly an intimacy with experience now that wasn’t available before. And from here, the mind may still come up with new doubts or questions… but they land differently, don’t they?
Keep gently looking. Not as a doing — but as a curious openness to what’s already here, without needing it to resolve one way or another. Let the dust keep settling, and let even the settling be just another arising.

Love
Rali