Looking for 1 on 1

[Bill]

Liberation is not a thought, a feeling or a state. Its really so ordinary that we have almost totally missed it.
I can't convince you of it, in fact the only way I can help is to point you in the right direction to look so you can see it for yourself. You have to do the seeing.
It is through direct experience that it is seen. Its like we want you to look with fresh eyes at the truth of common everyday experience. Like a child sees... without any bias. Pure perception you could call it.
Its not hidden. Its been here all along. Its just a shift in perspective.
No one can give you anything to enlighten you.
Instead of a 'you' being fuller, its more of an emptying of a 'you' ...
Do not expect fireworks. they may or may not happen. Each person is different.
All of the emotions we have had in the past are still here.. it just seems there is much less stickiness to them.
There's no I in reality. It can't be found. Only the thought or illusion of an I.

To keep looking at thoughts, since they are so important to get a handle on..

Let's look at the concept of 'mine'

When you look at the computer in front of you, is it your computer, or just a computer?
How about your clothes and other personal items, are they yours, or are they just objects?
And then there's your family members..... are they 'yours' or just other people?

How do we possess something.... what is the process that we go through to possess something?
How does something go from being just a supposed object, to ours?
Can we possess something without a thought?

[GotIt]

Liberation is not a thought, a feeling or a state. Its really so ordinary that we have almost totally missed it.
I can't convince you of it, in fact the only way I can help is to point you in the right direction to look so you can see it for yourself. You have to do the seeing.
It is through direct experience that it is seen. Its like we want you to look with fresh eyes at the truth of common everyday experience. Like a child sees... without any bias. Pure perception you could call it.
Its not hidden. Its been here all along. Its just a shift in perspective.
No one can give you anything to enlighten you.
Instead of a 'you' being fuller, its more of an emptying of a 'you' ...
Do not expect fireworks. they may or may not happen. Each person is different.
All of the emotions we have had in the past are still here.. it just seems there is much less stickiness to them.
There's no I in reality. It can't be found. Only the thought or illusion of an I.

Okay.

Let's look at the concept of 'mine'

When you look at the computer in front of you, is it your computer, or just a computer?
How about your clothes and other personal items, are they yours, or are they just objects?
And then there's your family members..... are they 'yours' or just other people?

The computer is just a computer.

My clothes and other personal items and my family, as in my husband, my kids, etc. all feel like mine, but they are really just things and people.

How do we possess something.... what is the process that we go through to possess something?

We claim ownership of it. We mentally decide it is ours. We buy something and then claim it as ours, e.g. my shoes, as opposed to your shoes, as opposed to the shoes at the store.

How does something go from being just a supposed object, to ours?

We buy it. We claim ownership of it. We claim it as ours, things like that. We sort of decide it's ours, although we don't consciously decide to, e.g. make the pair of shoes we bought "ours", we don't decide with shoes we bought to make them ours. They become ours once we've bought them.

Can we possess something without a thought?

No (and yes, as in, we would say a dog holding a bone in his mouth possesses that bone, although on thinking about it if a leaf fell on a turtle making his way through the woods, we wouldn't say the turtle possesses the leaf. If a dog saw a treat laying on the floor and picked it up, we would say he has possession of it. That being said, we don't see animals as having a "self".).

[Bill]

On controlling thoughts, it does seem like we can control our thoughts. But when we really look hard, we see there's only the illusion of control. We can't know what our next thought is going to be....only in a very contrived situation maybe... And just think about some of the crazy thoughts that come to you! We all have them, and if we could control them, we'd probably choose not to have some to them. In fact most of us have thought that if we could only control our thoughts, we'd have it made. Most all self help programs run on that false assumption. Hasn't happened here yet. I can't imagine it ever happening.
Are you really in control of your thoughts?
Check for yourself.

Thoughts arise, labels are put on the thoughts and we have ownership.Ownership is just another thought.
All possession is through thought alone. We look at the nature of thoughts and see, that they are almost always possessive in nature, about me, mine or I in some shape or form. Or about how other things affect me. If we look at ownership, we see that it always starts with a thought.
So thoughts are huge.
We have taken them for granted as being who and what we are.
But is this true? Are we only our thoughts?

We have believed all along that this 'I' is a real thing. Solid...Real... We're going to find that its only a thought we've been let to believe since we were about two years old. We can look really hard but not find this 'I' in reality.

Do you see how literally all thoughts are stories? We see, a label is put on what we see, and a story is developed.
Every thought is essentially past tense in its nature. Describing something that has happened in the past.
The only thing that is real is what is happening right now and here. To see this we need a willingness to see that what we might have been thinking all along is wrong. Or at least open to the possibility that we have been wrong.
We need a willingness to see prior to labels being put on what we see. We only need a very short amount of this 'pure' perception or SEEING to see that I is truly illusory in nature.

We have a little koan that can be helpful
just let it register and come back and read it from time to time.

Well its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.

Now how about the body? Is that owned and controlled in reality, by a self?

Now lets look at it and see if there is an owner or entity controlling it.
Lift one of your hands. either one.
Move it to the right. Now move it left. Look with your eyes what is happening. Did a self move the hand?
Or did the hand just move?
Direct observation. Move it again. Check it.
Which is more true, the hand moved, or a self moved the hand?

Next, as you move around in your normal activities, check and see if you can find a self moving the body around.
Walking, driving, typing, dressing yourself, etc.
Is there a WHO living your life?
Or are there just thoughts about everything, including a self, seeming to live your life?
Big difference.
Just look at the evidence. In your daily life, in all your actions, keep returning to this focus on the thoughts as you move around. Keep checking if there is something real, besides a thought, that owns and directs the body.

There's a bit in this post....take your time and be as thorough as you can.

[GotIt]

On controlling thoughts, it does seem like we can control our thoughts. But when we really look hard, we see there's only the illusion of control. We can't know what our next thought is going to be....only in a very contrived situation maybe... And just think about some of the crazy thoughts that come to you! We all have them, and if we could control them, we'd probably choose not to have some to them. In fact most of us have thought that if we could only control our thoughts, we'd have it made. Most all self help programs run on that false assumption. Hasn't happened here yet. I can't imagine it ever happening.
Are you really in control of your thoughts?
Check for yourself.

I would mostly agree with you. Thoughts come up on their own, and I have no control over them.
Where would you put the thoughts that I seem to control such as when I decide/choose to make the list for the grocery store and am thinking grocery store thoughts in my head.

Thoughts arise, labels are put on the thoughts and we have ownership.Ownership is just another thought.
All possession is through thought alone. We look at the nature of thoughts and see, that they are almost always possessive in nature, about me, mine or I in some shape or form. Or about how other things affect me. If we look at ownership, we see that it always starts with a thought.
So thoughts are huge.
We have taken them for granted as being who and what we are.
But is this true? Are we only our thoughts?

We are more than our thoughts as aren't we also this body and all of the experiences we have, e.g. seeing things, feeling the chair underneath my rear end, things like that.

We have believed all along that this 'I' is a real thing. Solid...Real... We're going to find that its only a thought we've been let to believe since we were about two years old. We can look really hard but not find this 'I' in reality.

Okay.

Do you see how literally all thoughts are stories? We see, a label is put on what we see, and a story is developed.
Every thought is essentially past tense in its nature. Describing something that has happened in the past.

That's true. All thoughts aren't now. Some are about the past and some are about the future (dreaming, figuring out which store I'm going to go to first when I go shopping, etc.). Wait, what about when I go outside, and it's cold and the thought comes to my mind "It's cold"? Is that still a thought about the past, e.g. a thought about the cold I just experienced when I went outside, or is it a current thought?

he only thing that is real is what is happening right now and here. To see this we need a willingness to see that what we might have been thinking all along is wrong. Or at least open to the possibility that we have been wrong.

Okay, yes.

We need a willingness to see prior to labels being put on what we see. We only need a very short amount of this 'pure' perception or SEEING to see that I is truly illusory in nature.

How do we make seeing prior to the labels being put on what we see happen? I agree with you that we only need a very short amount of this 'pure' perception or SEEING to see that I is truly illusory in nature. How do we get that/make that/let that/whatever happen? How do we get to that SEEING?

We have a little koan that can be helpful
just let it register and come back and read it from time to time.

Well its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.

Seeing "I" as a thought, it wouldn't/couldn't think. I wish I could see it as a thought rather than as an ownership/me/who I am thing.

Now how about the body? Is that owned and controlled in reality, by a self?

Probably not, because if it was owned and controlled, we wouldn't let ourselves get sick and stuff like that. That being said, we do seem to tell ourselves to go outside, drive to the grocery store, etc.

Now lets look at it and see if there is an owner or entity controlling it.
Lift one of your hands. either one.
Move it to the right. Now move it left. Look with your eyes what is happening. Did a self move the hand?
Or did the hand just move?
Direct observation. Move it again. Check it.
Which is more true, the hand moved, or a self moved the hand?

Looking at it like that, the hand just moved.

Next, as you move around in your normal activities, check and see if you can find a self moving the body around.
Walking, driving, typing, dressing yourself, etc.
Is there a WHO living your life?
Or are there just thoughts about everything, including a self, seeming to live your life?
Big difference.
Just look at the evidence. In your daily life, in all your actions, keep returning to this focus on the thoughts as you move around. Keep checking if there is something real, besides a thought, that owns and directs the body.

I'll do this.

[Bill]

I would mostly agree with you. Thoughts come up on their own, and I have no control over them.
Where would you put the thoughts that I seem to control such as when I decide/choose to make the list for the grocery store and am thinking grocery store thoughts in my head.

where would you put those thoughts?

That's true. All thoughts aren't now. Some are about the past and some are about the future (dreaming, figuring out which store I'm going to go to first when I go shopping, etc.). Wait, what about when I go outside, and it's cold and the thought comes to my mind "It's cold"? Is that still a thought about the past, e.g. a thought about the cold I just experienced when I went outside, or is it a current thought?

What would it be? a label?

How do we make seeing prior to the labels being put on what we see happen? I agree with you that we only need a very short amount of this 'pure' perception or SEEING to see that I is truly illusory in nature. How do we get that/make that/let that/whatever happen? How do we get to that SEEING?

Excellent question..... what is your answer to this?
How can you do it? How might it happen for you?

Just keep coming back to this and let it in without analyzing it or judgeing it..

Well its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.

Next, as you move around in your normal activities, check and see if you can find a self moving the body around.
Walking, driving, typing, dressing yourself, etc.
Is there a WHO living your life?
Or are there just thoughts about everything, including a self, seeming to live your life?
Big difference.
Just look at the evidence. In your daily life, in all your actions, keep returning to this focus on the thoughts as you move around. Keep checking if there is something real, besides a thought, that owns and directs the body.

Tell your experience with this...

[GotIt]

where would you put those thoughts?

They seem to me to be thoughts with an owner, e.g. a self making the grocery list.

What would it be? a label?

Okay. Yes, a label.

Excellent question..... what is your answer to this?
How can you do it? How might it happen for you?

Just keep coming back to this and let it in without analyzing it or judgeing it..

I like the arm thing you said yesterday (move your arm and watch it, is there a self in the moving). Looking at my arm while it moves makes it look like no there is no self in the moving.

I want to say I have no idea how to get to that SEEing. I will try to work on it (Just keep coming back to this and let it in without analyzing it or judgeing it).

Tell your experience with this...

I have to remember to look at my experience when I walk around, etc. and will get back to you on this.

Thanks!

[Bill]

Got it.... now Get this.... :)
(that's my attempt at a joke)

Its not in the answers you give that this will be found or discovered,
this thing you're searching for.

Its in the LOOKING.
I want you to LOOK.

Stop, be still and just LOOK.
LOOKING is what you must do to see this.
In the moment.
This is not hidden.
You have all the knowledge you'll ever need... more than enough.

Just take a moment and see that you answered all the questions..
but the very important one about LOOKING... has not been done yet.
See this.

Here it is again..
take your time and be with this.
LOOK.

Next, as you move around in your normal activities, check and see if you can find a self moving the body around.
Walking, driving, typing, dressing yourself, etc.
Is there a WHO living your life?
Or are there just thoughts about everything, including a self, seeming to live your life?
Big difference.
Just look at the evidence. In your daily life, in all your actions, keep returning to this focus on the thoughts as you move around. Keep checking if there is something real, besides a thought, that owns and directs the body.

[GotIt]

1. I keep forgetting to Look (I don't think it's subconscious avoidance or fear of what I might SEE, but I wouldn't say it couldn't be.).

2. When I do Look, especially when I look at my body parts moving, like moving my arm, it looks just like an arm moving with no "person" connected to it (It seems weird, but interesting.).

3. I'll be away for the next few days (from Friday April 12th-Wednesday April 17th). I don't know how much, if any, internet access I will have, but will write if I can. Either way (writing or not), I will keep Looking.

Thanks.

[Bill]

1. I keep forgetting to Look (I don't think it's subconscious avoidance or fear of what I might SEE, but I wouldn't say it couldn't be.).

2. When I do Look, especially when I look at my body parts moving, like moving my arm, it looks just like an arm moving with no "person" connected to it (It seems weird, but interesting.).

3. I'll be away for the next few days (from Friday April 12th-Wednesday April 17th). I don't know how much, if any, internet access I will have, but will write if I can. Either way (writing or not), I will keep Looking.

Thanks.

1) doesn't matter what it is.. just go ahead and do the exercise. while you are gone is a perfect time

2) :)

3) LOOKING is the key.
Its our goal - to point you to find how to look for yourself
Find out everything you can about it.

Next, as you move around in your normal activities, check and see if you can find a self moving the body around.
Walking, driving, typing, dressing yourself, etc.
Is there a WHO living your life?
Or are there just thoughts about everything, including a self, seeming to live your life?
Big difference.
Just look at the evidence. In your daily life, in all your actions, keep returning to this focus on the thoughts as you move around. Keep checking if there is something real, besides a thought, that owns and directs the body.Next, as you move around in your normal activities, check and see if you can find a self moving the body around.
Walking, driving, typing, dressing yourself, etc.
Is there a WHO living your life?
Or are there just thoughts about everything, including a self, seeming to live your life?
Big difference.
Just look at the evidence. In your daily life, in all your actions, keep returning to this focus on the thoughts as you move around. Keep checking if there is something real, besides a thought, that owns and directs the body.

One more thing...
watch this video a few times.. Looking with Honesty. Its a good one.

http://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c

[GotIt]

1) doesn't matter what it is.. just go ahead and do the exercise. while you are gone is a perfect time

2) :)

3) LOOKING is the key.
Its our goal - to point you to find how to look for yourself
Find out everything you can about it.

Okay. Thanks! I'll look to find out everything I can about it.

One more thing...
watch this video a few times.. Looking with Honesty. Its a good one.

http://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c

Yes, I've seen this video. I'll watch it a few more times.

[GotIt]

Finally back.

Things that I have been aware of:

1. Things happen to me, and I can't see that they will happen again (e.g. hip pain comes and goes, and I think I'm done with it, and a few weeks later it will happen again, and I still think it's a one time thing, and I do nothing about it--don't exercise, etc.!).

2. Haven't seen much with, e.g. moving my limbs. When I look at them while moving them they look like things just moving without a "me" attached to them. I haven't seen this much as maybe I don't have or don't take much time to do it.

Will watch the YouTube video, and will write more later.

[Bill]

Nice to see you're back...

Yes, keep looking..

Here's the question again:

Next, as you move around in your normal activities, check and see if you can find a self moving the body around.
Walking, driving, typing, dressing yourself, etc.
Is there a WHO living your life?
Or are there just thoughts about everything, including a self, seeming to live your life?
Big difference.
Just look at the evidence. In your daily life, in all your actions, keep returning to this focus on the thoughts as you move around. Keep checking if there is something real, besides a thought, that owns and directs the body.Next, as you move around in your normal activities, check and see if you can find a self moving the body around.
Walking, driving, typing, dressing yourself, etc.
Is there a WHO living your life?
Or are there just thoughts about everything, including a self, seeming to live your life?
Big difference.
Just look at the evidence. In your daily life, in all your actions, keep returning to this focus on the thoughts as you move around. Keep checking if there is something real, besides a thought, that owns and directs the body.

[GotIt]

I've watched the video. What am I supposed to SEE in it or get out of it? I don't know. Watching it I think I was expecting something to change or expecting to SEE something or have an understanding that would open me up to SEEing, but everything is the same. I do think/see that one little glimpse, one little beginning to see can lead to wanting to see more and looking to see more and seeing more. What am I supposed to be SEEing and how do I have/experience that first glimpse that leads to wanting and seeing more?

Thanks, and sorry to be sooo defensive.

[Bill]

Hello,

The video is on LOOKING.
This is the key, if there is such a thing... this LOOKING.

Nothing is going to 'give' you anything or make you do this or that.
You have to find out what this LOOKING is.
Its all over this site in various forms and different threads.

What will it take for you to dig and find it?
I know that after 50 pages you must really want this.
Most would have given up a long time ago.

Let's just stay with this looking until you grasp it.

How would you define it?
What do we mean when we ask you to LOOK?

[GotIt]

Thanks.

Let's just stay with this looking until you grasp it.

How would you define it?
What do we mean when we ask you to LOOK?

I think the looking has to do with being aware/awareness of things as in things being different like direct experience of things as they are being experienced. There is something behind the labeling of things, e.g. sitting in a chair and experiencing the feeling of my rear end on the chair is different than the mental stating of "rear end on chair". For me that direct SEEing/experiencing is hard to SEE. I did have the experience once of SEEing/knowing that roses and carnations have no reality, they don't exist as roses and carnations as those are just names we give them. Somehow that experience was a one time thing that has never occurred again and has never occurred in relation to anything thing else.

I've been looking at my self as I do things, e.g. looking at my hands moving. When I look at them and study the movement I see that there is no "self" moving them. My hands, arms, etc. don't have a "self" to them or behind them.

Question that occurred to me this morning: does the body move on it's own, like if I'm talking and then start gesturing related to the talking, are those gestures coming as a result of what I'm saying, e.g. if I say "go over there" and point in the direction I'm referring to, or do they come as a result of learned behavior from when I was a kid (e.g. did I learn to gesture in certain ways at certain times, etc. which would mean that gesturing comes from learned behavior and not from a self telling my arms to gesture and gesture in a certain way? I'm not asking you for an answer, I was just wondering about this to myself.