good place

[graceabounds]

Take the time.
There is no rush...
And ultimately nowhere to 'be' :)

[daisyrain]

I find myself staring at this forum again:)

Soooo. Control was (and is) a big one. Also so unexpected and a bit fun! (I say it's fun all the time, but it dawns on me, that I'm only writing you, when it's fun 😂 I'm not sure I'd wish this to anyone)

It's crazy how many thoughts are about control, almost every single one is implying it. But it's okay.
Not believing that, thoughts can get scary intimate. Rather the sensations coming with it.
it's all good.

[graceabounds]

They imply it, but do they have any agency whatsoever? That is the question…

Not believing that, thoughts can get scary intimate. Rather the sensations coming with it.
it's all good.

Yes. This is direct experience. No interpreter, witness, analyzer, go between or once who can predict.

It is all ‘good’ because it is as it is… :)

[graceabounds]

* ONE who can predict…

[daisyrain]

you know, I think I might need to revisit "time" here:)

They imply it, but do they have any agency whatsoever?

So, it's interesting.
Without recognition in the moment itself, it's like I completly forget about this.
I think I do realize, recognition can only happen "before thought" in the moment itself, or it's thought.
But what I mean is, that it's like I completly forget about control and stuff, when I'm not actively looking. Which may be fine.
So, about agency.
It's kind of just tension and resolve. There's a surporise really, that it's that and not proof of control.
So, "in the moment" it's seen through, but there's this story here, that it's not always like that.
Or rather I wonder what would be without effort spend on recognozing this.

it's SOO difficult to phrase this.
It's like the second I'm not keeping an eye on the controll illusion, it comes out and barks. Bad control illusion, down with you!

[daisyrain]

do they (thoughts about control) have any agency whatsoever

So, right now what is noticed/seen/felt is this implication of "someone who controls", rather than control.

Awful description incoming:

the thought "what do I do with this"
Implies: Ah, so theres a person who controls, rather than just control on its own

And it's felt like a blanket or tension, a thickness in the body.

[daisyrain]

Even without control that person is implied

[graceabounds]

Can an illusion bark? :)
Can an illusion do anything?

Is there a you who is responsible for forgetting or remembering, seeing or not seeing?

Here are the time questions again…

Is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?
How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?
Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?
How long does the ‘now’ last?
Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?
What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

[daisyrain]

Can an illusion bark? :)
Can an illusion do anything?

Best i can do is, in direct experience there is no illusion. Things just are.

Is there a you who is responsible for forgetting or remembering, seeing or not seeing?

I don't know..
I really don't.
It seems seeing and not seeing and getting lost in thought are treated as special here. Like they are different from other happenings.
"Oh, but I have control over focus" i love these silly little formatting options here.

it's hard giving that up, and you're gonna make fun of me for saying that*, but if not even here is control,
how can i do literally anything to awaken? there would be nothing to do. nothing.


*you probably won't make fun of me


Oh Becc. All if this makes me want to cry and lie down a bit. I don't understand anything.

I think I found core believes here. so, they are becoming more apparent at least. And it's like they are sort of really infected here, emotionally speaking.

"I am doing everything wrong"
"I should be doing X"
"I can't do that, I should be doing X"

and you, X is never something really defined it seems. I just try to sit with them it seems. But I think that might be what makes everything seem four times as hard as it needs to be. I think this is close to what really hurts here all the time.


SO, it's about time

Is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?

That seems like a thought.
More the opposite, where "now" is already there before looking, instead of being somewhere/somewhere not.
So, about time progressing. There is a feeling of time progressing, though that seems like a worry. OH, that's "I should be doing X instead right now"

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

There's memory of a "moment just before".
There are convictions (thought) about what happens next.

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

I notice the thought. Of different "nows".
Of a (narrow) frame of time around now.
I wonder, what to make of it.
I just "remember a moment ago" so much.
Things are sort of flowing, that's something.
Thought "Of, i have missed the moments in between X and now"

I don't know, what to make of this question.

there's not really an experience like that here

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

... normal amount



thought that was funny. Okay.
Using another the question first feels natural.

> How long does the "present moment" actually last?

Some of "present moment" is a concept (thought) here.
But it doesn't really end

> when did the "present moment" began?
I don't need to think about it, it's already here.

So, again

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

It feels like moving is a thought.
Don't know what to make of that.
It feels like there's something numb or blind to what that *means*
Somewhere else (around the stomach and belly) it feels like this is welcomed.
Like it's breathing here, the sight that this moment isn't moving.
Just writing this out, it's almost as if this (consideration? remembering?) travels.
Looking for an end, can't find it.

Looking at the next questions I want to say:
Oh boy, I am so ahead of you here 😄

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

You know, there's a "pinch" somewhere.
Right side of the face beside the right eye.
There's anxiety, feeling it in the legs. (that's a bit odd now)

detour time!
There seems to be quite a thought pattern going on here with
"I don't know what to make of this"
That already implies I should be doing something with this, doesn't it? Facinating. Now that can't be quite right.

I can't find a moment where now began.
I can't even find a moment where looking really began.

How long does the ‘now’ last?

unexpectedly long. it's still going strong.

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

these are thoughts. (but what does that mean?)

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

Not the now I just found, it doesn't become the past. (I probably really don't know what I'm talking about)

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

right now, there is no past.

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

thought: "i am way to confused to answer this right now"

Can't find an actual experience.
Still I feel it's time for bed. How does that make sense?

[daisyrain]

also sorry for making you dig out the questions about time.
I was aware I could just find them myself. I think I just didn't want to face them yet.
Thank you Becc

[graceabounds]

I think I found core believes here. so, they are becoming more apparent at least. And it's like they are sort of really infected here, emotionally speaking.

"I am doing everything wrong"
"I should be doing X"
"I can't do that, I should be doing X"

and you, X is never something really defined it seems. I just try to sit with them it seems. But I think that might be what makes everything seem four times as hard as it needs to be. I think this is close to what really hurts here all the time.

So you are trying to satisfy a non-existent requirement
for a non-existent self
toward a non-existent goal...

It feels like moving is a thought.
Don't know what to make of that.

So plug and play with the above. Wrong is a thought. X is a thought, not what is actually here. Can't is a thought. Should is a thought...

What is here that is not a thought?

"I don't know what to make of this"

GREAT! Don't make anything of it. Don't add meaning on top.

[daisyrain]

What is here that is not a thought?

Relief

[daisyrain]

Hi Becca :)
The "what's hear without thought" question seems very powerful.

There's a reoccurring thought saying "I'm close / I'm almost there / it will happen any day now probably".
It's been here since a while to say the least.

[daisyrain]

What is here without thought?

There's a kind of pleasant nothing.

It's just that looking at this nothing really confronts you with pain that's aaaaaaaaaaallmost there.

[daisyrain]

I truly don't live in reality.
There's such a myriad of "what if", "i have to", future and past coming.

I don't think I ever understood anything about control or time concretely,
but I notice, that thoughts get disconcerend and when looking for control or time, it's not really there.

Everything happens already, just these thoughts.
It's a bit like getting lost in them (instead of being in reality) inflicts mighty pain.
and I truly don't live in reality.