Feet first (or should it be head first?)

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jrm72

Re: Feet first (or should it be head first?)

Postby jrm72 » Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:15 am

Good morning Vince,

DE - too much to mention it all
Thoughts - It's nice, warm log fire, clock chiming, another half an hour before anyone else wakes up.




It seems to sit in the background and claims it runs the show after the fact.
Because I want to help you recognize the difference between what is conceptual and what is actual, I want you to notice how that statement is Not actual.
To be accurate (and literal), you would say "Thoughts arrive claiming ownership. Some sensations happen."

Yes, thoughts come and claim pretty much everything.




the delusion of agency still persists.
It's only a delusion if you believe it. An illusion is when your senses inform you incorrectly. (and you know it)

Yes, it's now an illusion, but the illusion tricks me most of the time.




(no decisions, choices, intent, responsibility) is not my lived experience.
Yes it is. As is the illusion of agency. It's just that you are focussing on the illusion more.
Are there moments when you feel confident that you could trust that life will deliver...?

OK, it's my lived experience, but the illusion is smothering it.
Life delivers - Yes. Confidence and trust don't feel like the issue, it's more having no clue how to let the illusion go, or better put as seeing through it more clearly and consistently.




Perhaps better put as not experiencing the teaching but somehow being the teaching.
That's too difficult. Just experience life-ing.

Always happy to keep things simple - life-ing it is.





J❤️🤣

jrm72

Re: Feet first (or should it be head first?)

Postby jrm72 » Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:15 am

Good morning Vince,

DE - too much to mention it all
Thoughts - It's nice, warm log fire, clock chiming, another half an hour before anyone else wakes up.




It seems to sit in the background and claims it runs the show after the fact.
Because I want to help you recognize the difference between what is conceptual and what is actual, I want you to notice how that statement is Not actual.
To be accurate (and literal), you would say "Thoughts arrive claiming ownership. Some sensations happen."

Yes, thoughts come and claim pretty much everything.




the delusion of agency still persists.
It's only a delusion if you believe it. An illusion is when your senses inform you incorrectly. (and you know it)

Yes, it's now an illusion, but the illusion tricks me most of the time.




(no decisions, choices, intent, responsibility) is not my lived experience.
Yes it is. As is the illusion of agency. It's just that you are focussing on the illusion more.
Are there moments when you feel confident that you could trust that life will deliver...?

OK, it's my lived experience, but the illusion is smothering it.
Life delivers - Yes. Confidence and trust don't feel like the issue, it's more having no clue how to let the illusion go, or better put as seeing through it more clearly and consistently.




Perhaps better put as not experiencing the teaching but somehow being the teaching.
That's too difficult. Just experience life-ing.

Always happy to keep things simple - life-ing it is.





J❤️🤣

jrm72

Re: Feet first (or should it be head first?)

Postby jrm72 » Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:15 am

Good morning Vince,

DE - too much to mention it all
Thoughts - It's nice, warm log fire, clock chiming, another half an hour before anyone else wakes up.




It seems to sit in the background and claims it runs the show after the fact.
Because I want to help you recognize the difference between what is conceptual and what is actual, I want you to notice how that statement is Not actual.
To be accurate (and literal), you would say "Thoughts arrive claiming ownership. Some sensations happen."

Yes, thoughts come and claim pretty much everything.




the delusion of agency still persists.
It's only a delusion if you believe it. An illusion is when your senses inform you incorrectly. (and you know it)

Yes, it's now an illusion, but the illusion tricks me most of the time.




(no decisions, choices, intent, responsibility) is not my lived experience.
Yes it is. As is the illusion of agency. It's just that you are focussing on the illusion more.
Are there moments when you feel confident that you could trust that life will deliver...?

OK, it's my lived experience, but the illusion is smothering it.
Life delivers - Yes. Confidence and trust don't feel like the issue, it's more having no clue how to let the illusion go, or better put as seeing through it more clearly and consistently.




Perhaps better put as not experiencing the teaching but somehow being the teaching.
That's too difficult. Just experience life-ing.

Always happy to keep things simple - life-ing it is.





J❤️🤣

jrm72

Re: Feet first (or should it be head first?)

Postby jrm72 » Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:17 am

Don't know what happened, but the reply got posted 3 times.
Don't know how to delete the extra ones.


J❤️🤣

jrm72

Re: Feet first (or should it be head first?)

Postby jrm72 » Fri Dec 22, 2023 1:56 pm

Morning Vince,

DE - Things feel heavy.

Thoughts - There feels like some sort of struggle going on. I have no idea what I am or what I am not.


J❤️🖖

jrm72

Re: Feet first (or should it be head first?)

Postby jrm72 » Sat Dec 23, 2023 12:11 pm

Morning Vince,

Things feel less heavy today, the struggle has slipped into hibernation.


J❤️🤣

jrm72

Re: Feet first (or should it be head first?)

Postby jrm72 » Sun Dec 24, 2023 12:13 pm

Merry Christmas Eve Vince,

Have a great day tomorrow and everyday.

Nuff said, see you on the other side.


J❤️🤣🖖

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vinceschubert
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Re: Feet first (or should it be head first?)

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Dec 24, 2023 12:27 pm

'evening James, How much are you wanting?
How much are you working at this?

vince
liberation starts with recognising some illusions

http://www.1ness.info

jrm72

Re: Feet first (or should it be head first?)

Postby jrm72 » Sun Dec 24, 2023 6:16 pm

evening James, How much are you wanting?
How much are you working at this?

Wanting lots, working less recently and letting things happen.

Happy to work as hard as needed, but that doesn't seem to be what helps.


Assuming there's no meeting this evening (my time) as it'll be Christmas morning for you.


J❤️

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vinceschubert
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Re: Feet first (or should it be head first?)

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Dec 24, 2023 7:06 pm

Assuming there's no meeting this evening (my time) as it'll be Christmas morning for you.
I am here...
liberation starts with recognising some illusions

http://www.1ness.info

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vinceschubert
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:02 am
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Re: Feet first (or should it be head first?)

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Dec 24, 2023 7:16 pm

Good morning James,
Wanting lots, working less recently and letting things happen.
Has wanting any tangibility without stories (about how it might be)? Can you focus on the sensations to the exclusion of any mental chatter about them or what they might mean?
In other words, do the sensations themselves contain any information or instructions?
What is your experience of "letting" (things happen) ?
Happy to work as hard as needed, but that doesn't seem to be what helps.
Not only does it not help, but it hinders.
How long has it been since you experienced a sense of play?
Can you project your memory/focus into playing and describe what the experience is?

with love

vince
liberation starts with recognising some illusions

http://www.1ness.info

jrm72

Re: Feet first (or should it be head first?)

Postby jrm72 » Sun Dec 24, 2023 7:42 pm

Has wanting any tangibility without stories (about how it might be)?



Maybe on a very basic level, like hunger or thirst. But for anything more complicated thecstoriesxarexwhatvcreate the wanting.




Can you focus on the sensations to the exclusion of any mental chatter about them or what they might mean?

On the surface, yes I can focus for a short time on only the sensation, but then mental drift or lack of focus happens and the mental chatter creeps in and takes over.
And there's something there, under the surface, even when I think I've excluded the chatter, thatbis subtly affecting me.




In other words, do the sensations themselves contain any information or instructions?

I want to say yes, the sensations must contain some information, but I'm not sure if they really do. Maybe something like dodge the incoming rock, eat the juicy fruit.




What is your experience of "letting" (things happen) ?

Its a lot more relaxed than seeking, but it feels like nothing is changing.




How long has it been since you experienced a sense of play?

In relation to seeking - never.




Can you project your memory/focus into playing and describe what the experience is?

Playing is fun, the experience is relaxed, in the moment, not thinking or concerned about things outside the playing.



J❤️

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vinceschubert
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Re: Feet first (or should it be head first?)

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Dec 24, 2023 7:49 pm

Hi James, go back over your responses and consider if your answers were a description of experience or something else.

v
liberation starts with recognising some illusions

http://www.1ness.info

jrm72

Re: Feet first (or should it be head first?)

Postby jrm72 » Mon Dec 25, 2023 9:49 am

V,
Hi James, go back over your responses and consider if your answers were a description of experience or something else.

Will do, it's harder separating experience and thought than I expected.


J❤️

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vinceschubert
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Re: Feet first (or should it be head first?)

Postby vinceschubert » Mon Dec 25, 2023 1:15 pm

Hi James.
it's harder separating experience and thought than I expected.
Yes. The words carry stories that are based on fantasy.
The illusion of DOing comes into play.
The image of getting between a sensation and thoughts and pushing them in opposite directions is totally a story.
A good technique is to keep honing in on the sensation. The closer you get to it, the less thoughts have a place.
When you are experiencing the pure sensation, there will be no thoughts hts. It is at this point when you examine the sensation to confirm that the sensation contains no information or instructions.

with love

vince
liberation starts with recognising some illusions

http://www.1ness.info


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