The Gate

That's fine. There is already no self, so, of course, life goes on as usual.

Please keep practicing ButtChair.

Go back & re- read the instructions.

Report only Direct Experience.

Loving,

Please keep practicing ButtChair. Please LOOK for any place where your butt ends & the chair begins.

Trying: tension
Giving up: relaxing

The "place" is only a thought.

Is there any clear dividing line between them? Or only the Sensation with no clear division?
Report only Direct Experience.

Thoughts picturing butt/seat dividing line (vaguely). But no clear dividing line.

No direct experience of a place where the butt ends, chair begins.

Sensation only -- pressure with tingling, vibration

That is good. This is not about right answers; this is about cultivating a certain kind of awareness so that you can see the truth that there is no self.

Keep doing this. As I mentioned I did it for 3 months. Then my awareness shifted while I was sitting at a stop light not doing anything in particular.

Loving,

This is not about right answers; this is about cultivating a certain kind of awareness so that you can see the truth that there is no self. Keep doing this.

Stacy, yes.
So back with the butt today.

Noticing how doing this curtails thinking. Or at least thoughts are less predominant, more noticeable as thoughts.

For awhile, mostly focussed on the dividing line. It's a thought.
Sensations -- pressure, pulsing, etc . . . direct experience.

Dividing lines anywhere . . . . seeing them . . . realizing there's just seeing forms and colors.
The idea of a dividing line is just that . . . an idea, a thought.
Another "ah hah" feeling.

Wanting to keep at this,
thanks, e

You're doing great! Yes, I gave you ButtChair to help keep you on DE and off thinking.

Here is another similar variation.



Introductory Body Exercise

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes. Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is? Does the body have a weight or volume? In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

Loving,

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes. Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Stacy, ok, Eyes closed.
This exercise is like the one describing your socks without looking. The descriptions are thoughts.

Can it be known how tall the body is? Does the body have a weight or volume? In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

How tall? No. Some proprioception/sense of head in relation to foot. Actual height is a concept/thought.
No weight or volume. Only thoughts. There is only pressure, tingling, vibration, temperature, etc.
No shape or form. Some proprioception, but actual form/shape are remembered thought-images.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Tingling, light pressure feelings at the skin, but no boundaries between body and clothing.
Pressure, pulsing in butt, pressure in back... no boundaries with chair.
Boundary, clothing and chair are thought-images.

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

Inside refers to a thought of inside. Cannot locate an "inside" with sensation. There is only sensation.
Outside: imagined, a thought.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

With the eyes closed, "body" is a thought,and the actual experience of the body is feeling sensations.

In the morning I did this for about an hour and it at some point these thoughts/images of shape, boundary, in/out, etc., all felt like effort/work. Easier to just drop them and sit with sounds ands sensations. And then even got a nice hit of the "floaty" feelings.

Doing it it for shorter periods later in the day, I wasn't focussing as well, no floating.
Might be something to try some more?
thanks, e

Good!

Yes practice this, like ButtChair, as much as you like, as long as you're relaxed & not straining.

Here's another:

Deeper Body Investigation

Here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen.

Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations. Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror. Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colours and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen. Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?

Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?

Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

Loving,

Stacy, hi,
Managed to do this three times today.

2. Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

No, there's a sense that the mirror images are 'there"& sensations are "here" with no connection.
The mental images and thoughts do however suggest they're connected.

3. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

No connection, but the first time I did this there was slight (anxiety) twist in stomacch
The second time, no connecton, the mirror image moved puppet-like.
Third time: no connecton, mechanical doll (moving by itself, without "me")

4. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

No, the felt sensation is not the same as the image of movement
Again experienced twist in stomach
Thoughts suggest there is a connection
The third time felt the most bizarre, the most just like in the mirror-- a puppet-lke hand moving without agency.

5 Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colours and shapes?

The image is very familiar, but in reality the image itself is not "me," not "my body" --it's just an image
It is just colors and shapes.
Memory/thought suggest that it is a body.

The attention might shift quickly from seeing arm to feeling sensation in arm, (suggesting image and sensation are somehow the same: but actually they are different and only connected by thought).

6 Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

Mental images/memory/thoughts suggest "legs." Otherwise, they are not suggested by the image in the mirror.

7 Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

There are only sensations . . . . . more or less intense.
(and at one point, a slight stomach twist).

8. Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?

Ignoring images (not easy) there are only sensations. (& vague stomach twist!)

Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?

Images keep intruding, with thoughts ABOUT walking, ("going somewhere"/"walking")

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?

There are only sensations and colors/forms . . . . no body
"Body" is a label for images, sensations
"Body" exists in thought.
"Body" is a whole thing/idea that is not a form/color,sensation

Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

There are just shifting sensations ....( slight stomach twist)... "Walking" is a label.
(changing images keep popping in despite attempts to ignore them & they re-affirm thoughts: "going somewhere/walking," but in reality they're just changing forms/colors)

There are also thoughts of "walking."
There is no need for the label 'walking'

9 Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

There are just images, labeled "room" and different sensations, just happening, separate from the images.
(and a sudden brief experience of being nowhere with a slight stomach twist!)

Sometimes (especially standing still) there's non-localized sensation, but then sometimes (more with walking) there's reverting to sense of "being in a room."

Questions 8 and especially 9 were the most challenging . . . ignoring forms and images when they're changing (and when I might bump into a wall) could be difficult . . . and they would trigger labeling thoughts.
And it seems, with the little stomach twists that popped up, (mostly only the first time I did the exercise), there was some anxiety there about losing the sense of self . . . .

Altogether pretty fascinating,
thanks, e

Good morning.

Yes. Good.

Go back & look at these lie feelings, the "little stomach twists. "

Any time your thoughts suggested an untruth, isn't that when your stomach said, "no?"

Loving,

Stacy, hi,
The stomach tightening seemed to mostly occur only the first time I went throught yesterday's excercise."

Any time your thoughts suggested an untruth, isn't that when your stomach said, "no?"

The slight twisting feelings felt like mini-anxiety attacks -- like a fear of losing the sense of self & wanting to hang onto it.

For instance, -- the recognition that there was NO connection with the felt sense in the hand and the visual image of movement in the mirror. Two seperate perceptions, that historically the thinking would have labeled as one connected event, "me, moving my hand."

This was even more true when looking at the actual hand moving. The visual image and the felt sense of the hand moving were two separate experiences, and NOT the usual thought of it as one seamless experience: "Me seeing me moving my hand." The hand seemed to be moving on it's own, without "me" making it happen. This was bizarre and thrilling and a touch scary.

No me? As much as I get this intellectually, an actual recognition can carry elements of fear, upending what I thought I knew.
thanks, e

Yes. it does up end it all.

[quote]slight twisting feelings felt like mini-anxiety attacks -- like a fear of losing the sense of self & wanting to hang onto it.[/quote]


There's no "self" to hang onto & never has been..To think so is the lie that's causing the twist.

But let's look at that fear. Fear & expectations are the only things that can prevent seeing there's no "self."

There is a Direct Looking process for fear.

[url]https://youtu.be/jKX1llYtlKE?si=jHXuuyyVtp7c-1R2[/url]

And this one:

[url]https://youtu.be/fSTT8nc8cvQ?si=Alcukpbi7SUlXpfi[/url]

Loving

Stacy, hi,

But let's look at that fear. Fear & expectations are the only things that can prevent seeing there's no "self."

Thanks for the videos. . . .
Very helpful to confront fear directly, with interest and curiosity.
The little anxiety feelings were low intensity and brief. . . . and usually not even happening by the time I''d done the execises two or thee times. So wasn't really able to conjure them up again . . .

Have been attempting to notice/separate seeing from feeling.
And noticing the tendency to cover them in a thought of "I".
Especially feelings.

thanks, e

Sounds good.

Do ButtChair regularly. You can repeat any of them if you like.

Pay attention to all the truth feelings of lightness and openness.

Loving,

Stacy, hi,

Do ButtChair regularly. You can repeat any of them if you like.
Pay attention to all the truth feelings of lightness and openness.

So back to basics today: butt/seat. At one point able to spend a straight hour . . . .
Some mind wandering, but when focussed, again there were only sensations -- pressure, etc

The "dividing line" notion seems more elusive -- only vague/fleeting thought-images.
But popping up over and over again.

Occasional feelings of lightness in upper body.

You wrote that:

Fear & expectations are the only things that can prevent seeing there's no "self."

Wondering how to recognize/see through expections.

Good morning,

Wondering how to recognize/see through expectations.

The first 4 questions I asked you were about your expectations. You can review those and there may be others.

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?


Your reply is here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9862#p406142

Again, we are looking for a shift in perception. Those feelings of lightness are a part of that shift.

Regarding ButtChair, you are right, there is no dividing line; however, the practice of looking can help you with the shift in perception. When you see, hear & feel that you cannot find any "self" anywhere in Direct Experience, at some point, the penny will drop. It will be like knowing there is no Santa Claus. You may see a man in a red suit, but you are not fooled. You know it isn't real.

Loving,