The Gate

Heya Rali,

Haven’t you yet? Can you see the beauty, the perfection? Only thought can come up with faults or flaws, things to be desired or avoided. Everything is exactly right the way it IS, because it can't be any other way. Surrendering/peace/being/beauty is what is left when resistance to what IS ends.

I just sat outside and just was in nature. That was it. Powerful.

I've ate Psilocybin many times in the past and there was always this afterglow at the end that just felt as though everything was at peace, all was in harmony(many reading can probably relate :)) ). Memories from those times come because that's what this is. This is just being.

On another note, my teacher is/was following this thread and last night when we talked on the phone, he said, " I think you're ready to let go of all your monitoring practices." All the practices where I check in with myself, where I put into play techniques to control what's happening. Like the technique of "Mu," (a Zen Koan).

2 days ago while on my way to work I realized that I forgot to brush my teeth.
Side Note: There's some knowledge that I know about Red Cedar(Thuja plicata) and its antimicrobial and antifungal properties, and that it's great to use on any unbroken skin related infections. It's also great as a tea, but can be very toxic in anything larger than small quantities. So I use it to freshen my breath by chewing on the young sprigs. ]]]

As I was driving I thought, "Okay, I need to hold this thought in my mind that I need to find a Red Cedar when I get to work" and so I started holding a thought in my mind. Then it dawned on me that I can just let go and be. That I don't need to do anything, hold anything, be anything. So I let go and drove to work. The entire way, my breath let me know that it needed freshening and so when I arrived at work, I chewed on a Red Cedar sprig.

It was this that I did at all times after that. I don't need to hold on to anything. There's just a letting go into what IS.

We have some traditional final questions. Would you like to answer those?

Yay!!! Yes 😸

Love,
Mirrormoon

Hi Drew

Great stuff! Thank you for sharing this with me!
Here are the final questions. Please answer all questions in full, when you are ready. Please answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Love
Rali

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me', 'I' at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, there is not. In my experience, there is only seamless presence to what is.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The self that I thought I was is simply thought. There are still thoughts of self happening, but I see clearly they are just thoughts, not an actual identity that is separate. The separate self originates from a need to protect something that appears more precious than life itself (actual experience). The fuel that perpetuates the pattern of psychological separateness is holding on to thoughts as though they were truth.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I don’t need to try to be something anymore; I can just let go and be. I am completely vulnerable to life, and as a result, life is living life rather than “I am living life.”
“Awake Awareness Knows Itself” had some meaning, and now it’s just another way of saying, THIS. Look! Listen! Feel! The “Awake Awareness” is just LOOKING.
Before starting this inquiry, the “Knows Itself” was some sort of loop with an observer being present to life. Now, I see there is nothing here that is actively observing, and there never was to begin with. The true knowing of itself is like a primordial “Knowing,” except that this “knowing” had no beginning. It has no origin! It just IS.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The last straw was this:

Is seeking still going on?

...Just a little nugget of something out of place. Maybe it's just time to let go of the search and just be...

This “time to let go of the search and just be” felt so right. Also, sitting with your question,

If I say there’s no doer, thinker, experiencer, decision maker, or a witness, what comes up?

During those two days I spoke out loud, “There is no one experiencing this.” A subtle shift happened there too.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

A decision is simply a thought labeled as a decision. I can't provide specific examples because I haven't had thoughts supporting the belief that "I make decisions." Although on a regular basis I might say “I made a decision,” I didn’t and don’t truly believe that "I make decisions."

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Intentionality involves holding a thought in mind to direct my mind towards a desirable outcome. However, there’s no need to manipulate or direct thought; it goes against the natural flow of what IS. Now, I just trust, let go, and remain aware. Interestingly, there is no "I" doing any of this.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

This belief faded from my pattern of thoughts in 2022, primarily due to my sitting practice. I observed that the activity of “making a decision” occurred before I was aware of it. I was retroactively witnessing decisions being made and realized that choosing or making a decision was merely an assumption.
When I let go of the belief in “free will,” it led to self-forgiveness and forgiveness of others. I saw clearly that everyone is always doing the best they can, regardless of how it appears in the narratives of the mind.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

What’s the difference between choice and decision? I wish I knew how to answer this one. I looked up the differences and they're so subtle.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

Control… hmm… I’ve come to understand control as letting go.
The Tao Te Ching says something like, “The cow herd controls his cattle by giving them a spacious pasture to graze.” Every time I tried to control an aspect of my life with guilt, shame, or other typical tools for self-retribution, it always resulted in chaos.
For instance, I have a severe addiction to video games. When I used to play, I’d punish myself in some psychological way. But as my practice deepened, I discovered that I needed to just be present while I played. During play, I experienced immense shame, guilt, frustration, fear, sadness, and anxiety. Instead of being consumed by it, I saw and felt all of it with a loving presence, just being.
I realized I had no sovereignty over my addiction, and the only way to stop the pattern was to remove the triggers from my life completely. Though before doing that, I let my body have what it wanted and faced all the pain associated with the addiction. I gave it the wide pasture to graze and felt a natural movement towards ending the pattern.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

I sat outside in nature and investigated the origin of all the happenings and wow…
I looked down to see a jumping spider on its way somewhere, and then there was a dragonfly landing on a leaf. I don’t know what’s making this all happen, but it just IS. It’s all happening, unfolding, revealing itself like a flower blooming in response to the rising sun.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

What am I responsible for? I might as well be responsible for everything. I am responsible for responding appropriately.
I am not immune to error and miscalculations, and as a result, it is my responsibility to continue to train. A major change of administration recently happened at work, and many people are very stressed. The thought, “I must be the peace that everyone so badly needs,” came to mind many times. So my responsibility in this case is to be relaxed and resilient in the face of uncertainty.

Anything to add?

I still have a ways to go and am not "fully baked."

To my Dharma brother, friend, and teacher, William C. After meeting 18 months ago at the Green Gulch Farm (GGF) January Intensive, we continued a dialogue, and he continuously supported my practice. The words he spoke illuminated the way and gradually led to this very moment. You’ve dedicated so much time to helping me out of “the washer machine,” as you also call it, “grasping, dwelling and storytelling.” Thank you, Will, for trusting in my capacity to recognize what this is all about :,)


To my Dharma brother and friend, Ethan, who initially shared LU with me while we were roommates at GGF. There was so much that I learned from you and your practice. I appreciated your hospitality, allowing me to come into your room unannounced so I could talk. You listened so deeply to me, even though I was just rambling on about whatever, but those memories struck me so sweetly.


To my Dharma brothers and sisters, especially Tim, Emmet, Chetan, Ann, Fanglin, Jonathan, KWAH, Nathan, Jo, Sivoham Sivoham, and many others who have been a radiant light on this path.


To you, Raliza :) Your BS detector is so spot on! I have enjoyed every moment of our interactions, and I felt great vibes and playfulness coming from us both. You are great at what you do here on LU, and I’ve learned much from your highly refined process. You can call me on my BS anytime! Hahaha…
Thank you.

To all those who are seeking :) May you continue your inquiry until there’s nothing left to seek.

And thank you to everyone who supports Liberation Unleashed :-)

Love,
Drew

Hi Drew

Thank you for your beautiful answers!
There are some questions from the guides that reviewed your answers:
1) "there is only seamless presence to what is"
Are you saying there is some sort of "presence" separate from "what is "?
2) Control and letting go
Are you saying that there is control when there's letting go? Or that there is control when there isn't letting go? Or something else?
3) if "the belief in “free will" is gone, why the need for "self-forgiveness and forgiveness of others"?
What is there to be forgiven (what others)?
And who is there to forgive?
4) Q: What are you responsible for?
Try again, please. Look.
Is there anything in your control? Are you the "doer" of things? Are you the thinker of "responding"? Are in in charge of emotions (sensations+thoughts)?
Love
Rali

Hi Rali,

"there is only seamless presence to what is"

Are you saying there is some sort of "presence" separate from "what is"?

No, there is no presence separate from what is. There really only is what is. Presence is just another name for THIS. My language shows my struggle to explain what exactly this is.

“Control and letting go”

Are you saying that there is control when there's letting go? Or that there is control when there isn't letting go? Or something else?

What IS doesn’t control anything. There only is what is. In other words, I might say, “I am relaxing into being” and “letting go.” I am releasing any tension of control. As a result, there is just life expression that is free to be.

if "the belief in “free will" is gone, why the need for "self-forgiveness and forgiveness of others"? What is there to be forgiven (what others)? And who is there to forgive?

Great question. This is an expression of my past patterns.

Here’s a story: As a child, I was a victim of a physically and mentally abusive household.

When I grew up, I couldn’t forgive my father. I was extremely dysfunctional, narcissistic, with a burning rage within me, a red-hot hatred. I went through 8+ years of therapy to finally hold a job and live away from home. In 2022, when I was living at GGF, I realized that free will was an illusion, and as a result, I saw clearly that my dad, as a person, didn’t do all those things when I was a kid. He was just acting out what he thought was right. This recognition allowed me to finally forgive him, forgive myself, and forgive the world. I was surrounded by loving friends within that community (sfzc), and the sadness and pain welled up inside me and came out all at once. I cried a great cry - finally relieved of the burden.
...
So, there is no one to forgive. There is only coming home. Coming home to no roof, no walls, and no fixtures, just what IS.

Q: What are you responsible for? Try again, please. Look. Is there anything in your control? Are you the "doer" of things? Are you the thinker of "responding"? Are you in charge of emotions (sensations + thoughts)?

There are thoughts thinking, but there is no “doer,” “thinker,” or “responder.” There is no one in charge of emotions. There is only THIS.
___
I’m happy to answer more clarifying questions if needed.

Love,
Drew

Hi Drew

There are more questions:
>

In other words, I might say, “I am relaxing into being” and “letting go.” I am releasing any tension of control.

Can "being" be "relaxed into"? How exactly would that happen? Anyone doing the "relaxing?"
Can "you" release" anything?

>He was just acting out what he thought was right.

Not even that he thought it was right. He did what he did because he could not have done otherwise - that's no free will in action. Can you see this?
Again, is there anything to be forgiven?
>So what are you responsible for, if anything?

I still have a ways to go and am not "fully baked."

What does it mean to be fully baked?
Who is not fully baked?
What is this about?

"The thought, “I must be the peace that everyone so badly needs,” came to mind many times."

Who/what is the referent of this thought?
Love
Rali

Hi Rali and friends,

I will need a bit more time to answer this. I just got home after a long day and it's past my bed time already. I will have more time tomorrow at the end of the day, though I'm also behind on homework, so we'll see. Thanks yall!

love,
Drew

Hello Rali and friends,

I will be posting tomorrow morning. I've had a busy week. Thanks for your patience.

love,
Drew

Can "being" be "relaxed into"? How exactly would that happen? Anyone doing the "relaxing?"
Can "you" release" anything?

No, being cannot be relaxed into. "I am relaxing into being" is a thought and there's no one who is doing the "relaxing."
No, "I" cannot do anything, in actuality.

>He was just acting out what he thought was right.

Not even that he thought it was right. He did what he did because he could not have done otherwise - that's no free will in action. Can you see this?

I see that he could not have done anything other than what he did because there was no "him" to begin with.
Just thoughts about thoughts.

Again, is there anything to be forgiven?

No. There is no one to forgive in the first place. This moment is perfect. No need for anything extra.

>So what are you responsible for, if anything?

Nothing is coming in response to this question.

I still have a ways to go and am not "fully baked."

What does it mean to be fully baked?
Who is not fully baked?
What is this about?

Fully baked means, full and boundlessly awakened. whereby the "practitioner" no longer has karma to work through and are an Arhat.
There are still patterns of thought that play and a being absorbed in those thought patterns, but I am not fooled by the patterns of thought and clearly "witness" the thoughts as formations arising.

"The thought, “I must be the peace that everyone so badly needs,” came to mind many times."

Who/what is the referent of this thought?

There is no one there. These thoughts point to someone exists there, but there is no one. They are hollow thoughts patterns.

Though I do see that in order for these thoughts to exist there must still be alive the pattern of thought of self identity, which is absorption in thought. Though after absorption there is clear seeing that the thought that occurred is not this thing that I've always called, "me."

That is why when looking at the thought there is the seeing the pattern of thought pointing at an "empty seat" with no one in it. It's like a shell game, but under each shell there is nothing there.


My language today is not solid. I was about to go to sleep, but remembered that I promised I'd answer these questions today. Super drowsy.

Goodnight yall!

Love,
Drew ( 🛌 😴💤 )

Hi Drew
A bit more...

I see that he could not have done anything other than what he did because there was no "him" to begin with. Just thoughts about thoughts. ... There is no one to forgive in the first place.

I may be wrong, but it sounds like you're trying to rationalise. That's not what we are looking for. Not that there's anything wrong with your statement, but - as a human - can you really see that there is nothing to forgive? In connection to there being no free will?

Love
Rali

Hi Rali,

I see that he could not have done anything other than what he did because there was no "him" to begin with. Just thoughts about thoughts. ... There is no one to forgive in the first place.

...it sounds like you're trying to rationalize. That's not what we are looking for. Not that there's anything wrong with your statement, but - as a human - can you really see that there is nothing to forgive (In connection to there being no free will)?

Forgiveness doesn't occur because there is no held resentment. There is no held resentment because there is no one doing things with self directed thought(free will). There is no one with self directed thought because there is no separate self.

There's no one to hate. No one to love either. No preference for anything other than this.

Love,
Drew

Hi Drew

Welcome home!

It appears that the Gateless Gate has been crossed, but as you know there is no Gate. It has been such a pleasure to walk beside you! Your openness and willingness to look were simply awesome and made guiding you a joy.

There have been no more questions for you, which means that you will receive an email notifying you of a PM from the forum, inviting you to join LU's Facebook groups. It also has other information that might be of interest to you. I will inbox you my contact details if you want to stay in touch. If you have any questions, just ask, or you can drop a line on your thread here and I will respond.

Your username will change from green to blue which indicates that you have had the realisation of no separate self. This thread will be moved to the ‘Archive’ section of the forum, but you will be able to access it.

Please don’t forget that this is just the beginning of exploring. It’s the beginning of cleaning up of all sorts of old beliefs. Emotions and feelings can show up to be seen and felt, so don’t stop looking! Please feel free to contact me, so we can have a look together, if you like.

You can also consider being a guide, if you’re willing to explore it, when you feel ready. It can be very rewarding and it help you deepen your understanding.

We have a couple of support groups that are meeting via teleconference, which you will be able to access once your name has turned blue, join in any group discussions on FB, or make use of LU online support groups run by senior guides free of charge.

There are three of those, and they meet on Zoom – do contact the organisers for extra info, links and schedules:
1) Vince runs one on Wednesdays and weekends. Contact: vinceschubert@gmail.com
2) Luchana and Lubo run one on Thursdays. Contact: Luchana at luchanauzunova@gmail.com
3) Ilona holds a monthly meeting. Contact: admin@ilonaciunaite.com

viewforum.php?f=49

Love
Rali

Please don’t forget that this is just the beginning of exploring. It’s the beginning of cleaning up of all sorts of old beliefs. Emotions and feelings can show up to be seen and felt, so don’t stop looking! Please feel free to contact me, so we can have a look together, if you like.

This is so true. There's still so much to explore and this was what I was trying to express when I said that I'm not, "fully baked".

You can also consider being a guide, if you’re willing to explore it, when you feel ready. It can be very rewarding and it help you deepen your understanding.

This might be a fun, but I'm going to give this some space before I give that a try.

Although my friend, teacher and Dharma brother, Will C., expressed his interest in guiding in the future. How might he move in that direction?

Thank you Rali! Also, thank you to those who support this organization!

Love,
Drewsef