Seeing what is

[NoUserFound]

Hey Elad, 😊☀️

What self? Is there actually a self that gets in the way? Or what does the word refer to? What is actually there, getting in the way, when it seems like something is getting in the way?

Thoughts arise that I'm going in circles, and I'm not even sure anymore what is what (within LU exercises). The mind seeks to understand the difference between noticing, awareness, attention, etc. I guess the mind is trying to conceptualize THIS (like it always does with everything). Although I'm not even sure if analyzing these patterns or states is really helpful (even though I'd very much love to), since no self is seen in any of these states. Each state is seen through one by one, yet “the ocean never seems to stop making waves”, and for some reason, this doesn't bring me ease (which I had expected).

Then again, thoughts come up: "But what about now, this state right now? Is this state now selfless, or is it identified with the self?" And this too is seen through.

Back to the exercise: From time to time, when THIS is noticed, the sense of clarity is stronger, more vivid than at other times. So, when I say, "the self gets in the way of clarity," I mean that often it's not noticed or recognized that things are already clear.

There's a continuous fluctuation in the sense of self, and it seems especially strong when a state/pattern labeled as "attention" is present.
It's so sneaky: I now see there are several patterns when the sense of self is strong. Some of these patterns are labeled as attention, awareness, and so on. And I guess this is all fine by itself. The trick is that often it's forgotten that these are “just” thoughts, patterns, labels, and senses of self. And not The Self.

/Geza

Beautiful Geza!

It’s also noticed that no self is needed for the experience of clarity or freedom.

Yes!

It actually looks like that the self is in the way of this freedom…

What self? Is there actually a self that gets in the way? Or what does the word refer to? What is actually there, getting in the way, when it seems like something is getting in the way?


💗

[Elad]

When it seems like "your state" is not "right":

What exactly is it that is not right in what is actually there?

Not asking for the stories about it, those we know. I am asking, what in direct experience is there and "not right", "not awake"?

[NoUserFound]

Thanks for the gentleness☺️🤓

To your question:
Nothing is not right in DE. THIS is already complete.
THIS is “just” is (if that makes any sense).

When looking at the label “not right” then there’s this sense that such term can’t even “touch” (get close to) what IS.

/Geza

When it seems like "your state" is not "right":

What exactly is it that is not right in what is actually there?

Not asking for the stories about it, those we know. I am asking, what in direct experience is there and "not right", "not awake"?

[Elad]

Beautiful!

So: there is no separate self, no controller, no responsible one, standing outside of THIS, standing outside of experience, and choosing and controlling it. All is one, it has always been so. Is that true and clear?

[Elad]

Any doubts about it?

Any questions?

How does it feel to read that sentence out loud?

[NoUserFound]

Hey Elad,

I feel confused. It all seemed "so close" before this last pointer.

When saying it out loud, excitement comes first but then shifts into hesitation. Doubt arises about whether I've actually been seeing over the past few weeks or if seeing has turned into just another belief. However, even this doubting and the belief about belief are seen.

/Geza

there is no separate self, no controller, no responsible one, standing outside of THIS, standing outside of experience, and choosing and controlling it. All is one, it has always been so. Is that true and clear?

Any doubts about it?

Any questions?

How does it feel to read that sentence out loud?

[Elad]

Good, more layers of beliefs and doubts and the associated feelings are coming up to be seen and questioned... Deep awakening is not always fun... And if you had landed in confidence earlier without looking at this, it would just come up later... You are doing well... Keep looking, what is felt, what is real, what is being believed to be me/mine?



💚

[NoUserFound]

Thank you, Elad!

The experience consists of seeing, thoughts, sensations, and at times, a sense of awakening from a dream. It’s unclear why this specific sense (of awakening) feels so special, though, since it contains the same seeing, hearing, etc., as always. It comes with a sense of expansion: "this" feels spaciously larger than the "unawake" experience of just a moment ago. But then all this is seen through: even this momentary awake experience is within the boundary of all experiences. Although it feels "more expansive," it is still within (and not outside) experience.

The recurring belief is that this sense of self, at the moment of awakening, is a separate Self existing outside of experience. But then it's recognized that whatever it is, it remains within experience. Escape is not possible.

Am I even looking in the right place? It feels like I'm spending a lot of time on this "sense of self," especially on its visual aspect. But I don't see "me" there. Perhaps identification is happening somewhere else (in the body?)?

/Geza

what is felt, what is real, what is being believed to be me/mine?💚

[Elad]

Okay Geza, we are rolling :)

If you where to just stay with one question that feels deep to you heart and leave aside any attempts at intellectual understanding, what would that question be?

Here are some options/examples:

Who am I?

What am I?

What is Self?

What is This?

What is real?

What is experiencing?

What is aware?

What is thinking?

What makes things move? (including body, thoughts, sensations)

----------

What would you chose?

Don't try to chose the question that your understanding of LU or this says is most right.... Rather feel in your heart.... What would be the one question? (Could be one of these, could be another one that comes up for you).

[NoUserFound]

What am I? :)

Okay Geza, we are rolling :)

If you where to just stay with one question that feels deep to you heart and leave aside any attempts at intellectual understanding, what would that question be?

Here are some options/examples:

Who am I?

What am I?

What is Self?

What is This?

What is real?

What is experiencing?

What is aware?

What is thinking?

What makes things move? (including body, thoughts, sensations)

----------

What would you chose?

Don't try to chose the question that your understanding of LU or this says is most right.... Rather feel in your heart.... What would be the one question? (Could be one of these, could be another one that comes up for you).

[Elad]

Great. So stay with that question and just continue discovering what happens, what is seen...

Remember no thought is "the answer".

At the same time, no need to try and surpress thought ansewrs, or any other emotional and mental reaction to asking "WHAT AM I?" Just seeing that they are part of what spontaneously and freely happens, and return to the question...

Stay with that for a while and let me know what unfolds.

[NoUserFound]

Hi Elad, thank you!

When asking "what am I?", what is noticed repeatedly is a sensation of a gentle glow/flow across the body, especially in the throat, chest, and stomach areas. It comes with a sense of calm, connection, and expansiveness.

As a side note, this sensation (especially around the throat) feels somehow so familiar. As if it was always present in my life.

Then, after some rounds of asking "what am I?", the above sensation intensified, and some sadness and fear came up. And some thought of losing control (worrying about my safety if it turns out that the self is not in control). Tears appeared, and the sensation shifted again to something more calm and neutral.

/Geza

Great. So stay with that question and just continue discovering what happens, what is seen...

Remember no thought is "the answer".

At the same time, no need to try and surpress thought ansewrs, or any other emotional and mental reaction to asking "WHAT AM I?" Just seeing that they are part of what spontaneously and freely happens, and return to the question...

Stay with that for a while and let me know what unfolds.

[Elad]

Beautiful, all of it! Continue like this!

WHAT AM I?

Is it true that there os no separate self in control at all?

And just continue seeing all the difference feelings and thoughts about it, not resisting or trying to get rid of any of it...

[NoUserFound]

Hey Elad,

WHAT AM I?

I repeated the exercise a few times, but this time what was noticed was much more subtle than before. It was more about the lack of thoughts, sensations, etc., rather than what was coming up. There was a sense of neutral openness and a very subtle feeling of something "melting away" (perhaps the sense of self?).
Usual worry also came up that perhaps I'm doing it wrong or that I'm too tired today for this, but then noticing these thoughts as well.

Is it true that there os no separate self in control at all?

There's a sense of openness when asked this question, but then again there's a lack of confidence in stating the answer.

/Geza

Beautiful, all of it! Continue like this!

WHAT AM I?

Is it true that there os no separate self in control at all?

And just continue seeing all the difference feelings and thoughts about it, not resisting or trying to get rid of any of it...

[Elad]

Beautiful.

1) Continue with WHAT AM I?

2) Feel into the sense of a self being there, when it is there. What does it actually consist of, what is it??

Do NOT try to answer this properly on a mental level. LOOK deeply. It is all about looking/experiencing and not about the intellectual.

Things are unfolding beautifully.