The Gate

Hi Leto, I hope you are well! While you note down your answers to my previous post please take a look at the time line of our experience below and report back:

Exploring our Experience

We are born and for the first couple of years we experience the ‘truth’ of the world around us directly. The world is adventurous, beautiful, wondrous, amazing, colorful and tactile.

Is this true?

We are given a name then taught language which we then use to label things and communicate with other people.

Is this true?

We begin to hear words out loud in our heads and look at things, people, events evaluating them using combinations of these word labels.

Is this completely true or were there other times when you would look at a thing, person or event and there would just be ‘knowing’ without content? In other words there would not be a ‘self’ telling you what to do?


We then begin to have internal mind made conversations and debates using our word language. This makes us assume that there is a person in our heads with whom to have a conversation and that the events in the outside world happen to that someone.

is this true?

What is the real truth of what we are? Is it the word constructed ‘Me’ or ‘I’ that suddenly appeared when we learned language?

Go back in your imagination to when you were a toddler exploring the world. Relax and go back to a time before language when you were maybe nine months or a year old. How does this baby Leto experience the world? Then report back.

Hey Steve,

I lookes, and I felt some feelings I thought they are an avidence of a self. But there are not. There are just feelings about whatever. But I see no evidence of a self. Neither behind my eyes nor behind my solar plexus. I looked for the keys but I didn‘t find them. I still have the feeling that the keys should be in my pocket but more and more I accept: They are not. It feels like there is no pocket. I thought there is a pocket but the pocket is in fact something total different like instead of a pocket it is a lunch box and was never supposed to be the keeper of my keys. Does this analogy makes sense? It feels like I misunderstand some feelings I have and thnik they are feelings of a self.

Exploring our Experience

We are born and for the first couple of years we experience the ‘truth’ of the world around us directly. The world is adventurous, beautiful, wondrous, amazing, colorful and tactile.

This is true. Fore a short time of our life everything is DE.

We are given a name then taught language which we then use to label things and communicate with other people.

This is true.

Is this completely true or were there other times when you would look at a thing, person or event and there would just be ‘knowing’ without content? In other words there would not be a ‘self’ telling you what to do?

It is true but there was also times when I looked and just knew without conten for examples when I saw beautiful nature, listened to a bird or had a peacful state during meditation.

We then begin to have internal mind made conversations and debates using our word language. This makes us assume that there is a person in our heads with whom to have a conversation and that the events in the outside world happen to that someone.

This is true. Thoughts made up somoene to direct there thoughts maybe bc they learned that if there is talking there have to bo someone to talk to.

Go back in your imagination to when you were a toddler exploring the world. Relax and go back to a time before language when you were maybe nine months or a year old. How does this baby Leto experience the world? Then report back.

Baby Leto lived in DE and was driven by curiosity. There was no labels, just world.

Hi Leto, some beautiful realizations happening,

I lookes, and I felt some feelings I thought they are an avidence of a self. But there are not. There are just feelings about whatever. But I see no evidence of a self. Neither behind my eyes nor behind my solar plexus. I looked for the keys but I didn‘t find them. I still have the feeling that the keys should be in my pocket but more and more I accept: They are not. It feels like there is no pocket. I thought there is a pocket but the pocket is in fact something total different like instead of a pocket it is a lunch box and was never supposed to be the keeper of my keys. Does this analogy makes sense? It feels like I misunderstand some feelings I have and thnik they are feelings of a self.

Yes, all of this makes perfect sense. There will be lots of feelings arising for you just now. Remember what i said Leto; question everything! Let me give you a basic example of this:

I while ago I was feeling hungry. I actually heard the voice in my head say, ‘Steve, get yourself something to eat, you’ll feel better.’ So I went to the fridge and just as I opened the fridge door it suddenly occurred to me that I hadn’t drank any water that morning. So I closed the fridge door and drank half a litre of cold water. 20 minutes later i wasn’t hungry anymore, as it turns out I was dehydrated and not in need of food.

Feelings will arise but our interpretation of them can sometimes be incorrect. If you have feelings about all of this that you are finding upsetting or confusing, never resist them just allow them to be there and they will soon disipate. For baby Leto feelings flowed freely as one moment he was in joy and then curiosity and then…..

The false self has a tendency to take feelings that arise and interpret them in a way that will make itself feel good or feel bad. When you look in actual experience what comes up when you read this?

Hi Leto, while you answer my previous question…..

Thought with content (labeled thought) is perfectly ok Leto as long as you see it directly for what it is. I used thought with content to put part of this post together, it can be a useful tool and it can be entertaining but when I look and see my actual experience there is a deep knowing of the truth.

In our normal everyday thinking there is thought with content and there are gaps (or space) where there is actual direct sensory experience of the world not overlayed by labels but where thoughts arise in the form of insight, intuition and just plain knowing without description.

Have you noticed that most of what I communicate to you are questions (pointing) and you are doing all the work, these questions create a space and in that space there is an opportunity to Look and see what is true.

The mind can't destroy the mind or the self cant destroy the self or whichever reference we make to the 'I'; how can it, it is NOT real. We need to ask the questions and then look without ‘content loaded thought’ because, as useful as thought can sometimes be, it will always cloud the real truth.

In the space that a question opens up, you look and there is no 'I’ or mind or self in that space, so it allows for the seeing to take place or rather the experiencing without filters. All you are doing is Being what you already are.

If it's not clear then please let me know and I will come at it from another angle, but sit with it and see how it goes, there is a lot there. Always remember, question everything!

I think that you are now ready for one of my favorite pointers......

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold your hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now flip your palm over and then back over and then back over again...and so on.

Watch it like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your actual experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ be found in or behind the eyes?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Now using labeled thought, give your hand the command to flip over but DO NOT act on the thought, do nothing. What happens?

Now do the same but DO NOT think about it, just have AN IMPULSE to flip the hand to the over. What happens?

Who or what chose which hand (left or right) for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Hey Steve,

The false self has a tendency to take feelings that arise and interpret them in a way that will make itself feel good or feel bad. When you look in actual experience what comes up when you read this?

When I look in DE, nothing really comes up. But I absoluty agree and it underliens what my experience was.

How is the movement controlled?

I don‘t know. Thats crazy, I really don‘t know!

Does a thought control it?

No

Can a ‘controller’ be found in or behind the eyes?

No

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

I really don‘t know. Its just happening.

Now using labeled thought, give your hand the command to flip over but DO NOT act on the thought, do nothing. What happens?

Nothing happened, just the thought but no movement of my hand.

Now do the same but DO NOT think about it, just have AN IMPULSE to flip the hand to the over. What happens?

The hand moves.

Who or what chose which hand (left or right) for the exercise?

Noone, it was just insticnt. Just heppend.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

No.

This excersice is doing so much inside of me. It brings so much peace like everxthing is on its place. Its so quite. Like everything is like this impuls and it felles so natrual! There no self needed to hold the world together like glue. There is just that impuls needed.

Hi Leto, a very powerful shift in perception here!

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

No.

This excersice is doing so much inside of me. It brings so much peace like everxthing is on its place. Its so quite. Like everything is like this impuls and it felles so natrual! There no self needed to hold the world together like glue. There is just that impuls needed.

Absolutely Leto, there is no self needed to hold the world together. The self is just thought about something that does not exist.

From what you are saying, you now seem to be more present and enjoying more space (gaps) where thought without content arises. Let’s explore this a little more…..

Time Exercise

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is ‘thought’ to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future. Remember to keep LOOKING and QUESTIONING! LOOK in actual experience and tell me…….

Is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time Leto?

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?


Report back Leto and tell me what you find please.

Hey Steve,

Is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time Leto?

No, there is no moving on a timeline.

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

No

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

No

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

There is no moving, there is, what there is.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

No

How long does the ‘now’ last?

In DE, this question is obsolet. „how long“ implicates a timeline, but there is non.

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

It doesn‘t start, it doesn‘t end. The questuin is obsolet.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

Never, „now“ doesn‘t become anything. There is no „now“. There is what there is.

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

There is no past. I can think about something I label as past, but this is also just happening now. But in DE, there is no past. The question is obsolet.

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

In DE, there is no time. In labeld thoughts, there are thoughts labeld as „time“ but that doesn‘t mean anything.

Parden my radical answers, I don‘t whant to be rude but in DE there is everything so radical, so pure, so direct.

Hi Leto, your answers are very insightful. Thank you.

Take your time over the next questions and even look at your own answers to the following questions and ask, ‘is that true?.’

There is no self, no doer, no controller and there never has been.

Is this true?

Is it clear?

If anything is not clear, what is not clear?

Hey Steve,

Is this true?

This is true. And if I‘m fully honest, the question kind of disappeared or kind of doesn‘t make sense anymore, as well as the answer is.

Is it clear?

It is neither clear nor not clear, bc this question also kind of disappeared.

Hi Leto, this is a beautiful realization. I am so happy for you. Thank you for your honesty.

Although I am prepared to follow this path to the full and free myself from the illusion of the ego mindset, I also feel a certain fear that I will no longer exist at the end of the process. That I will no longer be able to enjoy things like Suhi or vacations, that I will no longer love when I cuddle friends or that I will no longer be able to put myself in other people's shoes. I'm afraid of becoming like Albert Camus' protagonist in his book "the stranger", who doesn't care about anything. There is also a kind of fear of death. So the fear that I, the one who perceives here, will then have died.

When you read your previous statement above, what comes up in your consciousness?

What is different now from when you first started your dialogue with me?

How does this feel now?

Do you have any remaining doubts?


Please take your time over these questions and without saying anything that you think that I might like to hear…answer all with complete honesty and frankness. Thank you Leto.

thank you!

When you read your previous statement above, what comes up in your consciousness?

I had to smile bc This fear has disappeared. I was with a close friend today and thought about my fear from back then. If we had a fight, I would still feel sad because I love her. But I know it's just emotions mixed with thoughts that say “oh I'm sad”. So I still feel and think everything like before, but my relationship has changed. It's just emotions and just thoughts. I still love sushi or ice cream. But these are also just thoughts and emotions. If I don't have ice cream, I can also feel sad about it, but that too: just emotions and thoughts. So my fear didn't come true, the fear dissipated. After all, it's just an emotion mixed with thoughts. So what :)

What is different now from when you first started your dialogue with me?

I don't know exactly. Actually, nothing has really changed, but somehow a lot has changed, see my post above. Things are what things are. Things happen as they happen. When I told my friend today what has changed, I said the following: Imagine you perceive the world as you did when you were 1 year old. Things are just what they are and you look around the world. That's how it is. It's DE and labeld thoughts are becoming more and more integrated in DE, they just appear. Before our dialog I knew on the surface that there was a truth without myself, but deep down I had so many doubts about it. That has turned around. On the surface I sometimes have doubts or I have the feeling or thought of a self. But deep inside I know: these are just emotions that I label as something specific but I don't even know if this label is true. It doesn't matter either. And the thoughts are just thoughts. A one-year-old child will certainly also have some thoughts, but that is no different in experience than a car that is being watched. Things are what they are, that's all I can really say. But everything definitely feels more direct. Much more direct and immediate. As if there was no distance. Sometimes this is clouded by label thoughts, but that's not a bad thing. They're just thoughts after all.

How does this feel now?

See my answer above. But this is also just feelings mixed with thoughts. So no big deal. Maybe tomorrow I don‘t feel that everything is so direct anymore but thats totally ok. Just feelings, just thoughts.

Do you have any remaining doubts?

Yes, but this is actually just a tight feeling in the solar plexus mixed with a tingling sensation. Then there are thoughts like “I'm lying” or “I'm imagining it all”. This feeling and these thoughts label my thoughts as doubt. But they are just thoughts and feelings. And the label regarding my feelings doesn't even have to be true. Maybe I'm just upset about something else. I don't know.

Hi Leto, it is such an amazing thing to realise this…..and yes I knew that you would still love Sushi lol. Even in darkness when we really LOOK we will always find the light Leto.

There are some final questions that are reviewed by other guides at LU, just to see if there are any areas that need clarification.

If it is ok with you Leto, would you be ready for those questions?

Hey Steve,

Even in darkness when we really LOOK we will always find the light Leto

This is absolutly true. The last three days was emotional not the best (but it was really fine, don‘t worry) but I handeled it so much different! Before this realization I would say it have been shitty days but I looked so often in DE and the emotions and thoughts where there but I knew: Just thoughts, just emotions. Deep inside of me everything was ok and sometimes I was just in a good mood dispite everything! It feels like there is a centerless center what is always calm and strong.

If i

t is ok with you Leto, would you be ready for those questions?

I am.

Hi Leto,

Here they are… You will see questions that you may have answered already in our previous posts but please answer all questions in full when you are ready. Only answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer.

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

Explain in detail what the illusion of the separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Do you have anything to add Leto?

Hey Steve,

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No there is not and there never was. I‘m thinking what I can add but I really don‘t know what to add, bc I feel sort of incapable to make any statements about a „self“.

Explain in detail what the illusion of the separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of the „self“ is just thoughts and sensations interpreted by thoughts as „sensation of a self“. I don‘t know when its starts but right now I see it just as thoughts. So thoughts about when it starts and how it works are thoughts as well. I don‘t know how it works, I know its just thoughts.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels light, direct, like zero gravity. Different is my relationship regarding thoughts and feelings, not really the content of thoughts and feelings. If there is a thought like „I am“ I know now, its just a thought, nothing more. And if there is a sensation my thoughts interpretate as a sensation of a self, I know, its just a sensation like tightness in my solar plexus and this sensation could actually be something totally different. Maybe I‘m just nervous about something. It feels like the glue I thought holds the world togheter is not there anymore but the world still hold together. Or like an Orchester notice the conductor is missing but they play anyways and ist sounds as beautifull as it sounds with a conducter. The rest I described in the post from May 09, 3:35 pm.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

When Steve wrote this:

There is no self, no doer, no controller and there never has been.

Is this true?

Is it clear?

If anything is not clear, what is not clear?

I knew, the dialogue is coming to an end and I was so frightend and full of doubts. But I noticed how I dealt with this thoughts and sensations. I noticed them just as thoughts, mixed with sensation and it was totally fine. I had thoughts like „I‘m not ready“ and sensation like thightness in my solar plexus. So what? Things are what things are.

Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Decisions are simply thoughts that come up like “I'm going to Burger King today”. That's just a thought. It doesn't even have to be a decision, another thought just interprets this thought as a decision. There is an impulse in my body and I may or may not go to Burger King. But there are no thoughts that are anything special like this is a „decision-thought“. In its nature, every thought is the same, only the content is different. So there is no real decision.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Same like decision. There are also no special thoughts labeld as „intention-thought“. Its just a thought with the content „this is an intention“. If I have the intention to go to Burger King its just a thought and another thought is interpret this as an „intention“ but its also just a thought, no different to the thought interpreted as an „intention-thought“.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

There is no free will bc there is no control about thoughts. Thoughts are just arising and maybe the thought is interpret by another thought in a certain way which provoke an impuls to do something but there is absolutly no control abouth this. Things just happen, things just arising. Example: A thought just arised with the content „Oh I wanna go tu Burger King“. But there was no control about the arising of the thought. So there was never a free will about the Burger King-Thought.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Same like intention. A choice is just a thought, interpret by another thought as a choice. But that doesn‘t mean anything. Thoughts are just thoughts. Example: „I make the choice to go to Burger King“. This is just a thought and doesn‘t mean anything. Maybe there is an impuls make me go to Burger King buts just an impulse without control as well. Things are random. They just arise.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

There is no control as there is no free will. There are thoughts ans sensations but they just arise without control.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

I don‘t know. Things just happens. There is nothing what makes things happen. They just do. Like thoughts. Just arising.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

There is no responsibility. Thins just happen without control, so there can‘t be someone who could be resposible for anything!

Do you have anything to add Leto?

Just thank you <3