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Re: Ready for this

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 10:51 am
by rubyjack
In the mean time I would like you to Look with pure DE (absolutely no thought and labeling) is there a subject seeing objects, if there is even a bit of subject perceived, please report ?
I'm sorry you are sick. Take your time! I am happy for a little break, anyway.

No,, there isn't. That's very clear.
And it's like there is a strong magnet snapping a sticky image onto experience, adding a "map" of shoulders and arms in space. Also caught a whiff of fear-ego fear-something like abandoning "myself", how will I monitor what I am doing without thought (which I don't for a minute actually believe, having experienced that no such problem arises) This comes as a little catch of breath and stiffening of neck, along with vague proto-thought.

Re: Ready for this

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:20 am
by CarefulDog88
Hi Ruby,
Thank you, all good now.
Without thought, "right here/just this" is all there is.
Is there a subtle experience of local?

Re: Ready for this

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 9:57 am
by CarefulDog88
?

:)

Re: Ready for this

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:38 pm
by rubyjack
Is there a subtle experience of local?
Sorry, I just saw this. I thought there would be a new email, but I didn't see one.
anyway-- Yes, there is. It may be a subtle movement of proto thought but I can't catch t before it happens, if that's what it is.

Re: Ready for this

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:46 pm
by CarefulDog88
Hi Ruby,
Yes, there is. It may be a subtle movement of proto thought but I can't catch t before it happens, if that's what it is.
I'm not familiar with a proto thought can you explain this to me using Direct Experience please.
And if you catch it before it happens what are you going to do with it?

Sit with the next 3 questions and when you are absolutely sure, please answer them.
Who or what is going to catch it?
Is there an expectation that a proto thought or any thought should not happen?
Are you 100% that there is no separate self?

Re: Ready for this

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 11:10 am
by rubyjack
I'm not familiar with a proto thought can you explain this to me using Direct Experience please.
And if you catch it before it happens what are you going to do with it?
In the stillness of direct experience there arises a sensation that could be clothed in words to become a thought. I could call it a direct experience of meaning, but I don’t really know what that means.
If I catch it before it becomes a picture of this body in space and time I might be able to strip off the sense of localness. I will find a gap before my mind turns it into form.

Who or what is going to catch it?
No one. Whoever it is that you are asking to “sit with” it, and “be absolutely sure” Isn’t that the mystery, the paradox we are having here? We use all this personal language-you ask “me” to “do” something , and yet it’s all happening by itself. Another thought can catch it, and somehow, sometimes, something changes. We do all this with thoughts and words, so whoever it is is whoever we imagine we are. It's all mind games, and yet somehow it works. Or more likely it's all window dressing, all just the illusion of agency.
Nobody's doing anything--, an invention to keep our minds amused while we "become" what we really are. Excuse the musing, but it's such a meaningless question.
Is there an expectation that a protothought or any thought should not happen?
No. they are thought, thoughts happen. This particular proto thought might be a key to direct experience without localness. I have no expectation that there is anything that shouldn't happen. But I do have an expectation that some things are useful in answering your questions/following this path.
Are you 100% that there is no separate self?
It depends on which me you are asking. I am 100% sure I have experienced that there is no personal self. I am 100% sure that is a real direct experience. I am also 100% sure I don’t operate that way in everyday life by way of forgetting it.

Re: Ready for this

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:12 am
by CarefulDog88
Hi Ruby,
I'm not familiar with a proto thought can you explain this to me using Direct Experience please.
And if you catch it before it happens what are you going to do with it?

In the stillness of direct experience there arises a sensation that could be clothed in words to become a thought. I could call it a direct experience of meaning, but I don’t really know what that means.
If I catch it before it becomes a picture of this body in space and time I might be able to strip off the sense of localness. I will find a gap before my mind turns it into form.

Who or what is going to catch it?

No one. Whoever it is that you are asking to “sit with” it, and “be absolutely sure” Isn’t that the mystery, the paradox we are having here? We use all this personal language-you ask “me” to “do” something , and yet it’s all happening by itself. Another thought can catch it, and somehow, sometimes, something changes. We do all this with thoughts and words, so whoever it is is whoever we imagine we are. It's all mind games, and yet somehow it works. Or more likely it's all window dressing, all just the illusion of agency.
Nobody's doing anything--, an invention to keep our minds amused while we "become" what we really are. Excuse the musing, but it's such a meaningless question.

Is there an expectation that a protothought or any thought should not happen?

No. they are thought, thoughts happen. This particular proto thought might be a key to direct experience without localness. I have no expectation that there is anything that shouldn't happen. But I do have an expectation that some things are useful in answering your questions/following this path.

Are you 100% that there is no separate self?

It depends on which me you are asking. I am 100% sure I have experienced that there is no personal self. I am 100% sure that is a real direct experience. I am also 100% sure I don’t operate that way in everyday life by way of forgetting it.
There is to much mind here. please try and answer with DE(senses).

It depends on which me you are asking. I am 100% sure I have experienced that there is no personal self. I am 100% sure that is a real direct experience. I am also 100% sure I don’t operate that way in everyday life by way of forgetting it.
Isn't forgetting it, implying that you have to remember and if you have to remember something isn't that also implying time and past events that you have to remember?

With DE, seeing, hearing, feeling, thinking(not content/stories) isn't this experiencing with DE 100% of the time?

Do you need to remember to do this?

Re: Ready for this

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:13 am
by CarefulDog88
Hi Ruby,
I'm not familiar with a proto thought can you explain this to me using Direct Experience please.
And if you catch it before it happens what are you going to do with it?

In the stillness of direct experience there arises a sensation that could be clothed in words to become a thought. I could call it a direct experience of meaning, but I don’t really know what that means.
If I catch it before it becomes a picture of this body in space and time I might be able to strip off the sense of localness. I will find a gap before my mind turns it into form.

Who or what is going to catch it?

No one. Whoever it is that you are asking to “sit with” it, and “be absolutely sure” Isn’t that the mystery, the paradox we are having here? We use all this personal language-you ask “me” to “do” something , and yet it’s all happening by itself. Another thought can catch it, and somehow, sometimes, something changes. We do all this with thoughts and words, so whoever it is is whoever we imagine we are. It's all mind games, and yet somehow it works. Or more likely it's all window dressing, all just the illusion of agency.
Nobody's doing anything--, an invention to keep our minds amused while we "become" what we really are. Excuse the musing, but it's such a meaningless question.

Is there an expectation that a protothought or any thought should not happen?

No. they are thought, thoughts happen. This particular proto thought might be a key to direct experience without localness. I have no expectation that there is anything that shouldn't happen. But I do have an expectation that some things are useful in answering your questions/following this path.

Are you 100% that there is no separate self?

It depends on which me you are asking. I am 100% sure I have experienced that there is no personal self. I am 100% sure that is a real direct experience. I am also 100% sure I don’t operate that way in everyday life by way of forgetting it.
There is to much mind here. please try and answer with DE(senses).

It depends on which me you are asking. I am 100% sure I have experienced that there is no personal self. I am 100% sure that is a real direct experience. I am also 100% sure I don’t operate that way in everyday life by way of forgetting it.
Isn't forgetting it, implying that you have to remember and if you have to remember something isn't that also implying time and past events that you have to remember?

With DE, seeing, hearing, feeling, thinking(not content/stories) isn't this experiencing with DE 100% of the time?

Do you need to remember to do this?

Re: Ready for this

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:36 am
by rubyjack
This isn't helping. these are the same questions rolling around in me all the time. Very little of that is mind-it's fishing around for words to describe my DE and failing.
Isn't forgetting it, implying that you have to remember and if you have to remember something isn't that also implying time and past events that you have to remember?

With DE, seeing, hearing, feeling, thinking(not content/stories) isn't this experiencing with DE 100% of the time?

Do you need to remember to do this?
Forget the word forgetting. Forget the word remember. No past event. They don't describe the experience. But I can't do any better. This is the crux of it. There is no will involved, so no "remembering" but there are two states of being.

I am going to take a break

Re: Ready for this

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:13 am
by CarefulDog88
Hi Ruby,
No Problem, take your time and when you are ready just post it and I will be waiting.