So lovely, happy with you and sending love. Can you please answer the final questions again? It's fine if you copy and paste a lot, just work it through so that it represents the clarity and experience that is accesible now. This is for the other guides who will look now.Wanted to write yesterday but could not come in here.
The storm is now over for now and the clear sky is seen. And the clear sky is always there even behind the clouds of the storm.
In a way it was very illuminating to see what getting stuck in the mind can create.
Right now here whatever is, is ok and if mindstorms come again that too is ok. Doubt, a thought believed is not here anymore. And if it arises, it is just a thought, nothing to believe in .There is nothing true whatsoever in thought! The minds creation is mindblowing.
This process with You have been so amazing actually.Years of meditating and reading has never given this seeing. The me character was niot seen to be untrue in direct experience, only in moments when the meditator disappeared in deeper states of metditationm. And yes there is a innerstanding that this is just the beginning and that the clarity will deepen and a lot of shedding the old will be happening. To welcome all of it, to love it and to acknowledge that it is there.Letting it be and be released when it is ready to be released.
A lot a words here written, just words. Just wanted to share and again thankful for Your guidance.
Thank You already
Re: Thank You already
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Thank You already
And so the format is easy to read question-answer, question-answer.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
-
Pohjantahti
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2023 3:43 pm
Re: Thank You already
Hi Elad,
Here we go. There is NO doubt about there being a separate self now. And now is all there is. If it would come back as a thought well there is this seeing now that it is only a thought and have no truth in it. There is thoughts yes, feeling yes, sensations yes, sight hearing and smell taste. All those are experienced but not any separate entity/self.. It is so obvious.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
ANSWER:
The "I" (me/self) is not real. It is not an entity/form and has no shape. It is just a thougt like all other thought. It is there attached (like an appendix) to other thoughts (I am hungry, I am sad, I am this or that etc) It was never there other than as thought and seems at times to be there when believing (lost) in the content of the thoughts.
There is a sense/feeling of the "I" at times in the body, but that sensation is not what thought says it is, just a contraction or sensation that thought says "I am here I feeling this". It is all thought. When not getting lost there in thought content then life just is immediatly here. Sensations, feelings, sight and sound and thoughts are there but no self living life. Just life happening, a sense of ease.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
ANSWER:
The illusion of separate self starts with thought and the I thought. It can start with a sensation/thought and thought intepreting that sensation as I am feeling this. Whe this is believed it feels like there is a me doing the feeling, a contraction. For example a sensation of fear/happiness and thought pops up "I am scared/ "I am happy" and then more and more I thoughts attached to other thoughts can pop up (memories of past or fantasies of future) and then there is a whole story of Me.
Also when something happens or is seen or heard, thought comes in and association happens to past memories of other similar happenings and filter that real experience so it is not seen/heard as it really is. Or thought goes to imagining a future and what the I will do, if not seen as a thought only it can give a contracted sense of being the me character.There is this filter that colours experience. For ex a noice just being what is heard/hearing the thoughts label it as very good or bad or nice or not nice or anything else
There is also habits of thought/repeating themes of thoughtpattern labeling immediately some sensations as something that they are not.
When attention get lost in the content of those thoughts and is believed then the I and the other thoughts seem real. There is a contraction.
The mind creates images, like the image of the body, yet there is no body in direct experience. We take the image to be real.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.
ANSWER:
The body feels much lighter, like some weight has been removed, more attention in the present moment to moment experiende (sounds, sights, sensations, thoughts coming and going...) It feels like a lot of tension and from the body has disappeared. There is more times with calmness and a feeling of everything being completely allright exactly as it is. Ordinary yet more alive and somehow soft and a bit delicate. Unknown territory.....More resting and less restlessness. One day it is like this and the next, when challenges com up, there are sensations, that thought automatically label as meaning something, but they are seen now for what they are, welcome to be and leave. It feels a bit turbulent and everything being the same, yet more sence of easiness and more often just beingness,When thoughts come and I thought arises it is seen for what it is and easier to be left alone.
What is different? The body feeling lighter, more presence here and now. Sensations and emotions arise but are not attached to en entity, just there without a story around it that thoughts make up.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
ANSWER:
I am not sure but it was very helpfull to see that sensations in the body have no inherent feelings or declaration of a self. Seeing that it is the thought that labels it so, but it is a misunderstanding. Without the label, what are they? Just sensation to be felt, just passing by till they leave.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
ANSWER:
Decisions are taken spontaniously, There is many factors that contribute, like preference, circumstances, what is available etc that togehter contribute to what decision is made. Many times when lost in not knowing what to decide afte a nights sleep, suddenly the decison just is there clear. Like the brain does the job.
Intention seems to be there, but is a thought arising and a feeling of intention. No self no doer of it.
Free will is a thought, a belief that there is a separate self that controlls life and makes decisions all by itself. The reality is that many things affect what happens, like conditioning, culture, life circumstances etc. Life unfolds as it does and a sense of choice can be there, but everything is interdependant and all connected and it is impossible to see what it is that affects that a decision is taken.
Choices are made but have many different aspects that contribute to what action is taken. It arises as a thought from nowhere
Like if I choose what to eat, it is what preference there is, what thought comes up of a delicious food of memory, what is here, what time there is, what resources is ther etc. All these and more are there togehter affecting the choise making. A sence of a I making choice happen can be there but looking carefully it is not so.
Controll: There is no controll over what the body does, what sensations and feelings arise, no controll over thoughts, no controll over what is happening in life. Some thoughts come and action happens , some other thought comes and action is not taken. Noby that chooses. There can be a sense of controll but that is a sense and the I thought claiming "I decided to do this," but that is just another thought. There is no controll of what happens next till a thought arises of "I want to do x".
6) What makes things happen? How does it work?
ANSWER:
Things happen, a seed falls on the ground and grows into a tree. Does the seed know it is going to be the so called tree? The leaves fall off in the autumn and new leaves appear in the spring. Life is lifing and it is amazing and not understandable by the limited mind. As for humans: Accidents, sickness, happiness, sadness, seeking a job, moving etc etc happens the same way, but the mind is there with thoughts and labels and claims that it makes things happen. Life happens and it is all interconnected, everything affecting everything else. It is like a flow and unfoldning of life
7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
ANSWER:
I am not responsible. How could a part of an everchanging Life be responsible for something.Life is just happening, unfolding. I am not responsible for anything at all, not for the breathing, what thehe body does, what happens in life, what thoughts come, what is done etc. That does not mean that I will go and rob a bank, because that is not the patterning that is in this body/mind. Another bodymind is doing it, but not responsible. with that I dont mean that we should not be compassionate and caring, but that comes naturally when we are not lost in thought but anchored in what is here now.
6) Anything to add?
ANSWER: Thank You for doing what You are doing and thank you for this opportunity to write this down so it can been seen if something needs to be clarified.It was kind of difficult to put words on all of this (enlish is not my native language). Very new experience.
Here we go. There is NO doubt about there being a separate self now. And now is all there is. If it would come back as a thought well there is this seeing now that it is only a thought and have no truth in it. There is thoughts yes, feeling yes, sensations yes, sight hearing and smell taste. All those are experienced but not any separate entity/self.. It is so obvious.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
ANSWER:
The "I" (me/self) is not real. It is not an entity/form and has no shape. It is just a thougt like all other thought. It is there attached (like an appendix) to other thoughts (I am hungry, I am sad, I am this or that etc) It was never there other than as thought and seems at times to be there when believing (lost) in the content of the thoughts.
There is a sense/feeling of the "I" at times in the body, but that sensation is not what thought says it is, just a contraction or sensation that thought says "I am here I feeling this". It is all thought. When not getting lost there in thought content then life just is immediatly here. Sensations, feelings, sight and sound and thoughts are there but no self living life. Just life happening, a sense of ease.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
ANSWER:
The illusion of separate self starts with thought and the I thought. It can start with a sensation/thought and thought intepreting that sensation as I am feeling this. Whe this is believed it feels like there is a me doing the feeling, a contraction. For example a sensation of fear/happiness and thought pops up "I am scared/ "I am happy" and then more and more I thoughts attached to other thoughts can pop up (memories of past or fantasies of future) and then there is a whole story of Me.
Also when something happens or is seen or heard, thought comes in and association happens to past memories of other similar happenings and filter that real experience so it is not seen/heard as it really is. Or thought goes to imagining a future and what the I will do, if not seen as a thought only it can give a contracted sense of being the me character.There is this filter that colours experience. For ex a noice just being what is heard/hearing the thoughts label it as very good or bad or nice or not nice or anything else
There is also habits of thought/repeating themes of thoughtpattern labeling immediately some sensations as something that they are not.
When attention get lost in the content of those thoughts and is believed then the I and the other thoughts seem real. There is a contraction.
The mind creates images, like the image of the body, yet there is no body in direct experience. We take the image to be real.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.
ANSWER:
The body feels much lighter, like some weight has been removed, more attention in the present moment to moment experiende (sounds, sights, sensations, thoughts coming and going...) It feels like a lot of tension and from the body has disappeared. There is more times with calmness and a feeling of everything being completely allright exactly as it is. Ordinary yet more alive and somehow soft and a bit delicate. Unknown territory.....More resting and less restlessness. One day it is like this and the next, when challenges com up, there are sensations, that thought automatically label as meaning something, but they are seen now for what they are, welcome to be and leave. It feels a bit turbulent and everything being the same, yet more sence of easiness and more often just beingness,When thoughts come and I thought arises it is seen for what it is and easier to be left alone.
What is different? The body feeling lighter, more presence here and now. Sensations and emotions arise but are not attached to en entity, just there without a story around it that thoughts make up.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
ANSWER:
I am not sure but it was very helpfull to see that sensations in the body have no inherent feelings or declaration of a self. Seeing that it is the thought that labels it so, but it is a misunderstanding. Without the label, what are they? Just sensation to be felt, just passing by till they leave.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
ANSWER:
Decisions are taken spontaniously, There is many factors that contribute, like preference, circumstances, what is available etc that togehter contribute to what decision is made. Many times when lost in not knowing what to decide afte a nights sleep, suddenly the decison just is there clear. Like the brain does the job.
Intention seems to be there, but is a thought arising and a feeling of intention. No self no doer of it.
Free will is a thought, a belief that there is a separate self that controlls life and makes decisions all by itself. The reality is that many things affect what happens, like conditioning, culture, life circumstances etc. Life unfolds as it does and a sense of choice can be there, but everything is interdependant and all connected and it is impossible to see what it is that affects that a decision is taken.
Choices are made but have many different aspects that contribute to what action is taken. It arises as a thought from nowhere
Like if I choose what to eat, it is what preference there is, what thought comes up of a delicious food of memory, what is here, what time there is, what resources is ther etc. All these and more are there togehter affecting the choise making. A sence of a I making choice happen can be there but looking carefully it is not so.
Controll: There is no controll over what the body does, what sensations and feelings arise, no controll over thoughts, no controll over what is happening in life. Some thoughts come and action happens , some other thought comes and action is not taken. Noby that chooses. There can be a sense of controll but that is a sense and the I thought claiming "I decided to do this," but that is just another thought. There is no controll of what happens next till a thought arises of "I want to do x".
6) What makes things happen? How does it work?
ANSWER:
Things happen, a seed falls on the ground and grows into a tree. Does the seed know it is going to be the so called tree? The leaves fall off in the autumn and new leaves appear in the spring. Life is lifing and it is amazing and not understandable by the limited mind. As for humans: Accidents, sickness, happiness, sadness, seeking a job, moving etc etc happens the same way, but the mind is there with thoughts and labels and claims that it makes things happen. Life happens and it is all interconnected, everything affecting everything else. It is like a flow and unfoldning of life
7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
ANSWER:
I am not responsible. How could a part of an everchanging Life be responsible for something.Life is just happening, unfolding. I am not responsible for anything at all, not for the breathing, what thehe body does, what happens in life, what thoughts come, what is done etc. That does not mean that I will go and rob a bank, because that is not the patterning that is in this body/mind. Another bodymind is doing it, but not responsible. with that I dont mean that we should not be compassionate and caring, but that comes naturally when we are not lost in thought but anchored in what is here now.
6) Anything to add?
ANSWER: Thank You for doing what You are doing and thank you for this opportunity to write this down so it can been seen if something needs to be clarified.It was kind of difficult to put words on all of this (enlish is not my native language). Very new experience.
Re: Thank You already
Dear Mica, three other guides and I reviewed your answers. No one had more clarifying questions, meaning you have "graduated LU" :) Nerina will contact you about post-gate continuation. I will meet you at the Unleashed forum on Facebook and will share with you about possibilties for continued exploration also. And you will always be able to reach out to me in FB after as well. It's been a real pleasure to have this process with you! Love, Elad
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
-
Pohjantahti
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2023 3:43 pm
Re: Thank You already
Dear Elad,
Thank You so very much for the guidance and support here.. Gratitude here and I really sense that I do want to connect with others and explore this more and go deeper. I have not been active on FB for a long time but have an old account there and will be there again just for this :). Feels like the support groups is important, like friends/family....
SeeYou there and I wish you all the best!
Much love! mica
Thank You so very much for the guidance and support here.. Gratitude here and I really sense that I do want to connect with others and explore this more and go deeper. I have not been active on FB for a long time but have an old account there and will be there again just for this :). Feels like the support groups is important, like friends/family....
SeeYou there and I wish you all the best!
Much love! mica
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