In time and out of it.

[JanineJanaki]

Hello Alan.

How does it FEEL as you read it again?
Oh my, noticing all manner of arising stories, “personal” and “global” and “implications.” Drawing deep breaths, and setting aside the thought stream, there is calm. Forgive one story that may or may not be helpful. A great upset about “my sister backing out of another housing opportunity and revealing a harbored grievance about me to my mate.” At my job this morning, I watched the mental assault gathering momentum, reaching for “others” to gain power (agree). LOOKING out the window at the jewels on bare branches deposited by last night’s storm, I SAW what was actually happening. The mental chaos was plastered over everything else. Humbled.

You are suggesting that resistance is primarily mental.

Is there actually anything else that it could be?
What else could it be? Life does not resist life. Life flows. SEEING the “I” in the thought stream. Trying to notice when “I” gets added… seamless. Presently, SEEING the thoughts and not the identity as them… Resistance is only mental, an abstraction… a distortion.
A question – “On what can ‘I’ rely?”
Answer – No thing. And there’s a calm in that.

Peace.

Love,
Janine

[Alless]

Hello Janine,

The mental chaos was plastered over everything else. Humbled.

And that's the world we live in when we're caught in and identify with thought. That means we then inevitably believe the illusion - built out of thought - is real and the truth until we simply SEE.

What else could it be? Life does not resist life. Life flows.

And that's the truth. Beautiful Janine.


Speaking of FLOW .......

Imagine for a moment a scene, one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source. It has been raining and so the level is quite high.

Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over a little waterfall to cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side. And all the while is it ever separate from its source?

Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground, from the creatures who live in it and call it home, which becomes part of them and which would not exist without it? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

Can you find anywhere where "Janine" autonomously and independent of life intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?




Now in daily life when making a regular decision eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are colour preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!) etc.

Where in there is an autonomous, independent entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find anything like that anywhere you look?



Can anything be found for which a “me” called 'Janine' is responsible – if so..... responsible to what and for what?



With love


Alan

[JanineJanaki]

Hi Alan.

Can you find anywhere where "Janine" autonomously and independent of life intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?
No.

Where in there is an autonomous, independent entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find anything like that anywhere you look?
No.
Preferences are subject to change. Aware of a thought stream recently about color preference, a wonder about preference as a child… a memory about “favorite this and that” with friends at school… and sharing “my favorite” not because it was, but because it was the “thing to do.”
In painting, there is an awareness of the “color to place in this spot,” not a calculation or really a decision… Something is using “my” arms to paint. (Lately, signing paintings feels not quite the truth).

Can anything be found for which a “me” called 'Janine' is responsible – if so..... responsible to what and for what?
Janine, a mental bundle of preferences, opinions and perceived needs, conditioned in culture and time, a resistance pattern looking for somewhere to land. A story, alive in the past and future, but never right Now.


Thank you for the lovely picture of The Flow.

Love,
Janine

[Alless]

Hello Janine

Thank you for the lovely picture of The Flow.

Yes, it is a really lovely metaphor for the river of life.


Here is something for you to sink into and really feel into tenderly. It’s called Bāhiya sutta. Look at everything through this lens for a day and see what you notice.

In the seen, there is only the seen,
in the heard, there is only the heard,
in the sensed, there is only the sensed,
in the cognized, there is only the cognized.
Thus you should see that
indeed there is no thing here;
this, Bahiya, is how you should train yourself.
Since, Bahiya, there is for you
in the seen, only the seen,
in the heard, only the heard,
in the sensed, only the sensed,
in the cognized, only the cognized,
and you see that there is no thing here,
you will therefore see that
indeed there is no thing there.
As you see that there is no thing there,
you will see that
you are therefore located neither in the world of this,
nor in the world of that,
nor in any place
between the two.
This alone is the end of suffering.



It is one thing to look for something that is not there and another thing to know that there is nothing to look for.


What is noticed and what resonates with the truth stated in the Bāhiya sutta as you look through this lens and feel into your heart?



Is there a big YES to all of this? If not, what is it in particular that doesn’t quite “fit” with your experience?



With love



Alan

[JanineJanaki]

Hi Alan!

What is noticed and what resonates with the truth stated in the Bāhiya sutta as you look through this lens and feel into your heart?
The Way, the natural Flow.

Is there a big YES to all of this? If not, what is it in particular that doesn’t quite “fit” with your experience?
A yes (soft and sure), and a sense of relief… a willingness to melt into the Truth… a sense of mind’s inherent limitation, and tendency to lure… a Namaste to mind while dissolving into What Is… like on a run this morning… sounds… earthy scent… jumping obstacles… thoughts… words… breath… none of it “mine,” all belong to The Way.

Love,
Janine

[Alless]

Hello Janine,

The Way, the natural Flow.

Indeed !

Having said that however, now is the time to put the lens of truth on this again, to look at the subtleties of belief. I remember asking you a little while ago what you meant by The Way.

And this is what you said .....

For me, when I say that I wish to align with The Way, that means getting out of the way, and yielding to what is present, like a leaf in the wind.

In the light of the Bāhiya sutta what is it that wants to align with the Way?



Is the Way and what wants to align with it separate?



What is this leaf in the wind?



Is there really a leaf?



In conventional life we have to use labels to navigate day to day living. The issue with any label, any naming, using nouns in any way in trying to communicate what is being experienced directly in experiencing can unconsciously create a sense of a "thing.' This is why we ALWAYS need to take a fresh LOOK in responding to any question while we investigate and report what we see in a way that eliminates as best we can any opportunity for interpretation to intrude.
What is experienced as you read this? Please report only what you SEE and FEEL

A yes (soft and sure), and a sense of relief… a willingness to melt into the Truth… a sense of mind’s inherent limitation, and tendency to lure… a Namaste to mind while dissolving into What Is… like on a run this morning… sounds… earthy scent… jumping obstacles… thoughts… words… breath… none of it “mine,” all belong to The Way.

Lovely. I feel the the relief that you describe. And this also comes with being very conscious of reiterating what was covered in the paragraph above as well.



Let us now turn to the phenomena of memory

Past and memory go hand-in-hand as almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened; that a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

What is memory exactly?
Please don’t go to thought explanation, but just let a memory be there, and look at it.

What is memory “made of”? What are the building blocks of memory?



When does memory appear?



What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?



How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?



Then, look at a thought about the future.




What is the future thought ‘made of’?




WHEN does the future thought appear?



What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?



How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?



Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.



What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?



If there is difference, how that difference is known exactly?



Again, look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say… but what actually is.


With love


Alan

[JanineJanaki]

Hi Alan.

In the light of the Bāhiya sutta what is it that wants to align with the Way?
There is nothing specific to align with The Way. ALL is The Way. The Totality, “before,” “after,” “during,” and “beyond all apparent splits.”

Is the Way and what wants to align with it separate?
No!

What is this leaf in the wind?
The Dance, and not the imposed separate components in It.

Is there really a leaf?
Only one imposed, delineated, picked apart.

What is experienced as you read this? Please report only what you SEE and FEEL
Alert. Energy gathering. Thought stream interpreting, planning.

What is memory “made of”? What are the building blocks of memory?
Thoughts and images (also thoughts), entangled with an “I.”


When does memory appear?
When it wants to. Thought thinking.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?
No difference.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?
Not known. Thought.

Then, look at a thought about the future. What is the future thought ‘made of’?
Thoughts and images (also thoughts), entangled with an “I.”

WHEN does the future thought appear?
When it wants to.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
None.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?
Not known.

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future. What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?
Thoughts and images only, not direct experience. So, no difference.

If there is difference, how that difference is known exactly?
No difference.

Presently, while thinking (sorry, reporting thought) about the soup at lunch or the chocolate to come, there is salivating…

Thank you.

Love,
Janine

[Alless]

Hello Janine

There is nothing specific to align with The Way. ALL is The Way. The Totality, “before,” “after,” “during,” and “beyond all apparent splits.”

Simply "this"?

What is memory “made of”? What are the building blocks of memory?

Thoughts and images (also thoughdts), entangled with an “I.”

Yes. And the entangled "I" is only a thought entangled with other thoughts.
And is this "I" thought entangled with other thoughts what you refer to as the "leaf" earlier?

When does memory appear?

When it wants to. Thought thinking.

Yes. And can the "when" be any other than simply NOW?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

No difference.

Yes !

Then, look at a thought about the future. What is the future thought ‘made of’?

Thoughts and images (also thoughts), entangled with an “I.”

Yes again.

WHEN does the future thought appear?

When it wants to.

Yes. Which can only be NOW

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Not known.

Yes - it cannot be known what will happen. And how do you know its a future thought? Simply another thought telling us that.

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future. What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

Thoughts and images only, not direct experience. So, no difference.

Beautiful !

If there is difference, how that difference is known exactly?
No difference.

Yes indeed. And if we thought there was a difference it is only a thought that claims there is a difference - even when there actually is none.

Presently, while thinking (sorry, reporting thought) about the soup at lunch or the chocolate to come, there is salivating…

Ha ha .... The experience that the illusory world of thought creates. Hope you got to get a bowl of soup and a square of chocolate rather than having to be satisfied ?? (can thought ever satisfy) with just the thought of it!!!

So memory is thought upon thought upon thought however enchanting it may be.

Exploring Time

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But .....LOOKING DIRECTLY is there actually an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?



Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?



Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?



How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?



Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?



How long does the ‘now’ last?



Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?



When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?



What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?



So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?


With love


Alan

[JanineJanaki]

Hi Alan.

Simply "this"?
Yes.

And is this "I" thought entangled with other thoughts what you refer to as the "leaf" earlier?
Yes.

Yes. And can the "when" be any other than simply NOW?
No, only and always now.

But .....LOOKING DIRECTLY is there actually an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
No.


Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
No.

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?
No.

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?
The present moment is not moving.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?\
No.

How long does the ‘now’ last?
Forever.

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
Now is not in time.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?
Never.

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
A thought occurring presently.

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?
Just the thoughts about time.

Thanks!

Love,
Janine

[Alless]

Its me again Janine


Christmas and New Year are here again so a quick note to give you a heads up on the situation over the next week or so at this end.

Christmas and New Year in Australia is also summer holidays when many businesses close their doors. People taking breaks and are on the move and our family does not seem to be exempt !

In the context of our exploration I would prefer to be in touch over this period, especially if life at your end made it possible for you. However over the next week or so my connectivity will be patchy to say the least. So at this end the practical approach is to take a break until January 1 when I’ll be back in connectivity range full time again.

And there are some wonderful ways to keep the momentum going in the meantime.
1. Going over the exercises already covered.
2. Going through other threads on the forum. A number of people over the years have seen the truth of no-self by doing just that.
3. Reading Gateless Gatecrashers. A free download available here
https://www.liberationunleashed.com/wp- ... ashers.pdf
4. Reading Liberation Unleashed (available on Amazon)
5. Continually FEEL and LOOK directly in day to day experience and recognize the way in which THOUGHT captivates our attention.
6. Family time over these festive times are a great opportunity to LOOK and SEE where this phenomena of a separate “me” appears and the reactions that can be evoked
7. And last but really it is the first thing to turn to – your own intuition, the Inner Guide - continually being aware of the incomprehensible (but so often oh so subtle) synchronicities of life and your response to them

Hopefully you will be able to make the most of this time.

How does all this sit with you Janine?



I'm so enjoying our exploration together that I reluctantly am suggesting this break !!

I’ll respond to your next post before we take the break over this festive season which I trust you will thoroughly enjoy.

With love


Alan

[Alless]

Love your responses here Janine to the exploration of time.

The NOW is regarded as a moment in time in the relative world whereas as you say "It is not in time"

It actually is the "door" to Infinity.

Now I see your post responding to the time exploration actually arrived before I sent the note about the Christmas break. But I hadn't caught sight of it.

Is there anything you would like to say in response to that note?



As I've said already I'm so enjoying our exploration together that I reluctantly am suggesting this break !!

However that's where peace always is - in, and with, what is

With love


Alan

[JanineJanaki]

Hello Alan!!


How does all this sit with you Janine?
That is just fine! I’m content with the “homework!!!”

I, too, am very much enjoying the investigation!!! I appreciate the humor, directness, simplicity, and care in your writing. “I” feel in “good hands!!” (whatever that means!)

I’m relieved to hear that you are enjoying the exploration, as well. Sometimes I feel quite ridiculous in my mind-identification and “slow progress” (whatever that means!) Laughing!

I wasn’t certain if “it was allowed” to check out other threads or the Gate Crashers text. I’m quite interested!

Peace and much love and good cheer!!!

(I’ll respond to your last post by the first of the new year!)

Janine

[Alless]

That is just fine! I’m content with the “homework!!!”

That's great! Beautiful Janine !

I, too, am very much enjoying the investigation!!! I appreciate the humor, directness, simplicity, and care in your writing. “I” feel in “good hands!!” (whatever that means!)

It's a joy ! And I so appreciate your dedication,willingness and honesty in all of this. And we know the "good hands" is truth itself. 😊😊😊

I’m relieved to hear that you are enjoying the exploration, as well. Sometimes I feel quite ridiculous in my mind-identification and “slow progress” (whatever that means!) Laughing!

I'm glad you know I'm enjoying it. It's a bit of a mystery isn't it. Sometimes it gets a bit confronting and that in itself seems so necessary to shake the ingrained habits. And then the sun shines through again and we can really chuckle and laugh at what is happening !

Look forward to be back in touch on January 1

With much love from Downunder


Alan

[Alless]

Hello Janine

It's really good to be back and I'm really looking forward to getting back to this exploration with you as 2024 gets underway.


Before we dive in I'm very interested if there anything that you would like to report from your experience over the break


With love


Alan

[JanineJanaki]

Hi Alan.

I am in the hospital presently with a bacterial infection that impacts the jaw and swallowing.
Trying to investigate the pain and the mental atmosphere, a whirl of anxiety and sadness.
Let’s pause our dialogue until I feel better.

I’ve been reading other dialogues in the forum, and the book, Liberation Unleashed, just arrived.

This experience feels very difficult (I know that’s a thought). Ill-equipped to maneuver (another thought).
Sorry I’m intoxicated by indirect experience…

Breathe. Be.

Peace,
Janine