Having moments of liberation - wanting more!

[BlueRacoon]

I had the thought tonight that the experience of the body being much less solid than it seems is consistent with quantum physics, which would tell us that we are more space than we are mass. Less solid than we appear.

It also made me think of the quantum experiments where the observer had an effect on the observed - an electron observed one way is a particle, another and it is a wave. And there is no way to know where or what the electron is until it is observed.

It seems like our bodies are like this - experienced one way if observed through the lens of thought or vision, and experienced a very different way if experienced through sensations only.

Fascinating!

[Bluejay]

The longer I sat, the more there wasn't "a line" but rather something very open that didn't really feel like a "line" or "border" at all. It struck me that it was weird that the mind could have the idea of a boundary when the felt sense is nothing like that.

Yes. This is why it's important to sit for 10-15 minutes or more.

It was so wonderful to have the extended direct experience of "being" that was so peaceful and pleasurable. That comes easier now I know that I can connect with DE and differentiate DE from thought+DE. Before, I was (mostly) only sitting with reality narrowed through the confining filter of the mind. That reality was indeed boring, but it was not actually reality. It was like watching a black and white, simplified TV show of reality.

Eventually, meditation becomes natural.

Thanks again for the exercises Henri. They are additive, coloring my experience more and more as I go on. :-)

👍

It seems like our bodies are like this - experienced one way if observed through the lens of thought or vision, and experienced a very different way if experienced through sensations only.

Fascinating!

Fascinating indeed!

Let's explore seeing next. This is similar to the one we did on hearing.

The usual belief that 'I am this body' is usually tied in with the belief that the body as a separate item is responsible or 'doing' the senses - 'I see', 'I hear', 'I feel' and so on.

In this exercise, we'll focus on seeing.

So, close your eyes.

With eyes closed, you will now experience 'blackness'. There may be other things going on, but the specifics aren't important.

I'm going to keep things simple and use the term 'blackness' for whatever you can see while your eyes are closed.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?

2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?

3) Can what is witnessing the blackness be found?

4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?

What do you find?

Can an inherent see-er be found?

Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept, idea, or thought?

[BlueRacoon]

With eyes closed, you will now experience 'blackness'. There may be other things going on, but the specifics aren't important.

I'm going to keep things simple and use the term 'blackness' for whatever you can see while your eyes are closed.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?

Well, it wasn't black (as it was daytime). I've noticed that I often see patterns - sometimes based on what I was looking at before I close my eyes, or just something random that often moves.

2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?

I'm not sure what you're referring to here - possibly the patterns I mention before? I also am aware that the sense of "seeing" is broad somehow, and not really sensed at all times as if it is coming from my eyes. It's more like a big movie screen.

3) Can what is witnessing the blackness be found?

4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found? What do you find?

Can an inherent see-er be found?

Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept, idea, or thought?

There is no I/me, it is not connected with eyes ("the brain is seeing" is the thought my mind offers) - but it just happens automatically. And if my being-ness gets lost in thought, my awareness of that sense goes away until my consciousness comes back to the exercise. There is no I choosing to "see" - it is just going on.

[Bluejay]

I'm not sure what you're referring to here - possibly the patterns I mention before? I also am aware that the sense of "seeing" is broad somehow, and not really sensed at all times as if it is coming from my eyes. It's more like a big movie screen.

Explore the movie screen, is it actually there, or is it thought/image?

I'm not sure what you're referring to here - possibly the patterns I mention before?

Yes, whatever is there when eyes are closed is, for this exercise, just called 'blackness'.

And if my being-ness gets lost in thought, my awareness of that sense goes away until my consciousness comes back to the exercise. There is no I choosing to "see" - it is just going on.

When you say awareness/consciousness, does it feel like there are two things?

For example, awareness aware of a sensation, or awareness of a sound?

[BlueRacoon]

The movie theatre screen is definitely a thought (that there is a screen). The sense of seeing something (patterns) is a little stickier to define. I seems like "ringing in the ears" (tinnitus) - when there is no sound, the brain/ears produce "sound" that is not actually there. This to me seems like that - that the brain is producing something that is like "seeing" but if I had to classify it, I would label it as thought given it's a production from the brain and clearly not the eyes themselves.

That of course begs the question of what does the seeing - the eyes are the sense organ, but is that what we actually "see"? What we experience is in the brain (because the image can be edited/colored by the brain). So on some level that is thought/image as well.

When you say awareness/consciousness, does it feel like there are two things?

They are the same thing and I use them somewhat interchangeably although I do have the sense of two separate states. My consciousness drifts around (from thought, to sight, to sensation) but there is an experience of getting lost in thought where my awareness/consciousness is in thought, but I'm not aware that I'm absorbed in thinking (so I guess I'd say I'm aware but not awake right then). The experience of the two states feels different - I have a sense of being on automatic pilot (asleep?) when lost in thought (or lost in another thing) and awake when I'm in the present and aware of / conscious of being here, now.

Hopefully that's clear...

[Bluejay]

The movie theatre screen is definitely a thought (that there is a screen). The sense of seeing something (patterns) is a little stickier to define. I seems like "ringing in the ears" (tinnitus) - when there is no sound, the brain/ears produce "sound" that is not actually there. This to me seems like that - that the brain is producing something that is like "seeing" but if I had to classify it, I would label it as thought given it's a production from the brain and clearly not the eyes themselves.

That of course begs the question of what does the seeing - the eyes are the sense organ, but is that what we actually "see"? What we experience is in the brain (because the image can be edited/colored by the brain). So on some level that is thought/image as well.

Be careful here not to go too deep into thinking. There are no answers there.

In direct experience, of what you said above, what is actually here?

Are eyes, brain, etc found in direct experience?

On the conventional level of course there are all these things, but that's not needed now. The conventional realm is the realm of thinking and concepts and delineation.

They are the same thing and I use them somewhat interchangeably although I do have the sense of two separate states. My consciousness drifts around (from thought, to sight, to sensation) but there is an experience of getting lost in thought where my awareness/consciousness is in thought, but I'm not aware that I'm absorbed in thinking (so I guess I'd say I'm aware but not awake right then). The experience of the two states feels different - I have a sense of being on automatic pilot (asleep?) when lost in thought (or lost in another thing) and awake when I'm in the present and aware of / conscious of being here, now.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant what is awareness in direct experience or/and what is consciousness in direct experience?

So when you say that you are aware of / conscious of being here, now, are there two things?
1) You aware
2) Being here / feeling of being here

Or if there's a sensation, is there awareness + sensation?

[BlueRacoon]

Are eyes, brain, etc found in direct experience?

I had a laugh reading that - of course not! Good pointer.

On the aware / conscious point, I will have to consider more. I definitely sense a present (now) that comes on the heels of a not present (lost in thought/experience and not aware of “now”) but I need to take some time to explore what indeed that is… I’m not sure…

I’ll let you know what I find!

[Bluejay]

Maybe this pointer can shake something loose:

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if it started at all) far in the past and advances to the future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and moving into the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?
Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began? How long does the ‘now’ last?
Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?
What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

Look at a thought about the past or the future, where is 'time' in that?

Is there actual experience of ‘time’ or just thoughts about ‘time’?

Enjoy! :)

[BlueRacoon]

Oooh, good one. Thank you! I’ll give that a go today! No, now! ;-D

[BlueRacoon]

This one was harder than the others Henri, but I got there. Initially, I couldn’t see past the thought that was part of my seeing time, so the answers I came up with were unsatisfactory. I was stuck in the idea that I know what was there a moment ago, and that is an awareness of the passage of time, unless I take “now” as a split second (but that seemed like a mental answer rather than an experiential answer.

Today, while I was driving to a friends, I had the idea to drive with “no mind” to see what the experience was like. By setting my mind aside for that time, I could see how time was clearly a construction of my mind, because if I took a “no mind” stance, then I couldn’t think about how the road was passing by, buildings were passing by, etc. If I m in the moment without thought, there is just the moment and no focus on the moment that is now gone.

I’ll be interested if you have feedback on that.

That drive led to the clarity that any existence of my “self” has to be in my mind. There was a clarity about the difference between being present and in the senses, versus being in my mind - that if the two are separated, then it’s clear what is one and what is the other. By considering what things are like with no mind, it made it clear that I can’t have a self if I don’t think about it. It’s impossible.

So it felt like I step forward in my progress.

[Bluejay]

That drive led to the clarity that any existence of my “self” has to be in my mind. There was a clarity about the difference between being present and in the senses, versus being in my mind - that if the two are separated, then it’s clear what is one and what is the other. By considering what things are like with no mind, it made it clear that I can’t have a self if I don’t think about it. It’s impossible.

So it felt like I step forward in my progress.

This is great.

Do you actually have an inherent self if you think about it?

There can be this sense that without thought there is no self, but the self is thought or is there when there are thoughts, but is this true?

Let a thought about self arise and look for the self. Where is it?

Be very specific. Look closely. Don't be satisfied with "the self is thought," but look exactly where in thought. Is it an image? words? something else?

[BlueRacoon]

Be very specific. Look closely. Don't be satisfied with "the self is thought," but look exactly where in thought. Is it an image? words? something else?

It is easy to see what the self is not. So where is it?

“I think therefore I am” - that thought from a college philosophy course keeps coming up but that is proof of (automatic) thinking, not of an inherent separate self.

There is a felt sense in “my brain” that represents the continuity of awareness over time that seems like the closest thing to an actual self. Like a sense of a spirit. An energy.

As I sit with that energy, it does not feel like a separate self (or a self at all) but more like consciousness (witnessing, that which is aware of this body and this experience).

There is a tree outside our bedroom window and “I” love to watch the birds as they come and go. There is a smile and a good feeling watching them, a distinct perspective from “my” eyes, and the thought that “I like watching them.” The story of liking watching is clearly separate from the experience of watching them and I can find no I in the experience. There is no actual I in the thought either, just the thought of an I, as the thought comes and goes.

So the closest thing I can find to a separate self is the fact that there is continuity in thoughts of an I connected to various experiences that come and go in the ground of a witness to those thoughts and experiences.

I have yet to find anything consistent that is a “self” beyond a collection of things that are thought about as a self. Like yesterday - I could have thought “I am driving the car” but the body and the mind drove the car and went where it was planned to go without a “self” doing it. I was aware while operating in “no mind” that actions just happened, both about driving and a spontaneous errand that I ran) without needing “me” to think about it.

I will keep looking. It was helpful to write as I looked this morning.

Happy Sunday evening to you (or Monday morning if that’s more correct)! :-)

[Bluejay]

There is a felt sense in “my brain” that represents the continuity of awareness over time that seems like the closest thing to an actual self. Like a sense of a spirit. An energy.

What is awareness in direct experience without the label awareness?

How do you know there is continuity? (check back to the time exercise for hints if needed)

So the closest thing I can find to a separate self is the fact that there is continuity in thoughts of an I connected to various experiences that come and go in the ground of a witness to those thoughts and experiences.

Feel a sensation, or watch a thought, something that brings up the sense of a witness/experiencer.

What is this sense made of? Below is the separating the senses exercise:

We have direct experience, which is seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling + thought.

When there is a sense of self, separate it into the senses that are involved, and inquire into each sense.

For example, let's say I feel a sense of self behind the eyes, and there's a thought 'this is me'. I would inquire:

Sense of self behind the eyes = sensation = are these sensations the self?
Thought 'this is me' = thought = is this thought the self?
Image of self behind the eyes = thought = is this image the self?

Objections will likely rise up. If so, keep inquiring into those, such as 'Of course there is a self, I'm right here'.

Thought 'Of course there is a self, I'm right here' = thought = is that thought the self?

Then maybe there's a feeling/contraction in the chest, so you inquire into that. Are those sensations the self? Where is it?

If you end up in a quiet place, rest there. Remember, no answer is the answer. There is no answer possible from thought. This needs to be felt into and repeated over and over.

There is a smile and a good feeling watching them, a distinct perspective from “my” eyes, and the thought that “I like watching them.”

This perspective of watching from behind the eyes remains even after separate self illusion.

Happy Sunday evening to you (or Monday morning if that’s more correct)! :-)

Still Sunday here :)

[BlueRacoon]

What is awareness in direct experience without the label awareness?

Presence. Consciousness. But of course, those are just other labels. It is just "now" + an awareness to now. Words do not suffice...

What is this sense made of? Below is the separating the senses exercise:

We have direct experience, which is seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling + thought.

I am quite clear there is no "separate self" in DE. It's just not there. There are thoughts of I, sensations of I, but none of them are a separate self. It is always a construction by the mind, sometimes constructed with elements of direct experience. But there is no "thing" that is a self.

I have been reading/learning about some of the "gatecrasher" stories. Most refer to fear that they will go crazy, anxiety, their life will fall apart should they wake up. I don't know why I'm different, but I have none of that. The only thing I find there that might be considered resistance is that I have believed the story of me for so long. Habit. I look forward to losing the habit. Curious if you're interested in sharing your experience...

I spent the day working to release thought and be present. And of course I got lost in whatever also. But when I was working on this, it was really pleasant. The moment I wake up more fully is waiting for me. I don't need to rush to it. Which is nice, because that's impossible.

:-)

Happy Monday!

[Bluejay]

Presence. Consciousness. But of course, those are just other labels. It is just "now" + an awareness to now. Words do not suffice...

Keep going, what is now in direct experience?

What is beneath the labels that is not another label? Remember, direct experience is:

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

I don't know why I'm different, but I have none of that. The only thing I find there that might be considered resistance is that I have believed the story of me for so long. Habit. I look forward to losing the habit. Curious if you're interested in sharing your experience...

If you're interested, I recently wrote about my story here: https://www.wakeupcloud.com/journey-to-awakening/