ok

[Luchana]

Hi dear Indira,

i would say the body is experienced. Saying that the body is experiencing is saying, the body is real, someone doing it.

Notice how mind change the seeing:
Body is experienced. - Yes.
Therefor body is real - No, the experience is real and body is a label of the experience, but is there a real body?

With eyes closed - is there an experience of shape form wight? or there is experience of live energy?
Does the experiencing energy have a form?
Where it comes from?

Sending love,
Luchana

[Indira1]

With eyes closed - is there an experience of shape form wight? or there is experience of live energy?
Does the experiencing energy have a form?
Where it comes from?

Experience of live energy, with eyes closed, no seeing of shape, form and weight
Does the experiencing energy have a form?, with closed eyes, I see no form, formless
Not sure where this energy comes from, suspect nowhere

[Indira1]

Notice how mind change the seeing:
Body is experienced. - Yes.
Therefor body is real - No, the experience is real and body is a label of the experience, but is there a real body?

I could not see it right away until you pointed it out. No, when looking, I see no real body

[Luchana]

Hi Indira,

you did a very good looking.

Experience of live energy, with eyes closed, no seeing of shape, form and weight
Does the experiencing energy have a form?, with closed eyes, I see no form, formless
Not sure where this energy comes from, suspect nowhere

Beautiful.

Let's check what is happening when the eyes are open.

Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'what can be seen'?
Can what is witnessing 'what can be seen' be found?
Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', Indira be found that is witnessing 'what can be seen'?
Or is there just simply 'what can be seen' to be found?
What do you find?
Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found?

Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

Sending love,
Luchana

[Indira1]

Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'what can be seen'?
Can what is witnessing 'what can be seen' be found?
Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', Indira be found that is witnessing 'what can be seen'?
Or is there just simply 'what can be seen' to be found?
What do you find?
Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found?

Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thoughtLet's check what is happening when the eyes are open.

With eyes open, is there anything else in ''seeing, other that what can be seen??? I wold say with eyes open, in the direct experience, what i see is what is infront of me, objects, hands typing, colors, and shapes. What is infront me right in this moment...

Can what is witnessing what can be

seen be found? No, the witnessing cannot be found nor seen
Can a pair of eyes, an ""I /me, Indira be fond that is witnessing, when looking, i can see no pair of eyes an ''I, me or Indira to be found anywhere witnessing. Only thought does that claiming, or claims to witness as I, me and or Indira the character..Interesting! what can be seen? No one is doing anything
NO, there is nothing to be found but direct experience
what do i find? I find nothing and there is no inherent see-er to be found, that would mean that there is a person seeing and orchestrating everything. There is no one

[Indira1]

Thank you Luchana, deep questions

[Indira1]

Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thoughtLet's check what is happening when the eyes are open.

with eyes open, I do not see a see-er, with eyes open, only direct expereince..there are thoughts, ideas and concepts that come up while looking but that is all it is. Just thought. There is no see-er, only thoughts that come and go while looking with eyes open. I would say NO

[Luchana]

Hi Indira,

what do i find? I find nothing and there is no inherent see-er to be found, that would mean that there is a person seeing and orchestrating everything. There is no one

Nice:-)
How does it feel?

What makes things happen?

How does it work?

Sending love,
Luchana

[Indira1]

How does it feel?

What makes things happen?

How does it work?

It feels natrual, neutral, non reactive
What makes things happen? nothing makes anything happen, it just spontaneously happen
How does it work? I really dont know how it works...it feels like a never ending mystery

[Luchana]

Dear Indira,
sorry for delay in replying, the forum wants' working properly and somehow I've missed your message...

What makes things happen?

nothing makes anything happen, it just spontaneously happen
How does it work? I really dont know how it works...it feels like a never ending mystery

Beautiful!

Please have a look at these questions:
Is there control over colours?
Is there control over sounds?
Is there control over thoughts?
Its there control over sensations?
Is there control over experience of whatever is happening?


What are you responsible for?


Sending love,
Luchana

[Indira1]

Please have a look at these questions:
Is there control over colours?
Is there control over sounds?
Is there control over thoughts?
Its there control over sensations?
Is there control over experience of whatever is happening?


There is no control over colors, seeing is happening and there are thoughts/labels, blue, black, ect. only thoughts on color, no control

No control over sounds, only sounds appearing and dissapearing
Absolutely not, no control over thoughts...thoughts appearing and dissapearing
No control over sensations, sensations happening and dissapearing
Thats a good question.. This feels like a trap, not the question but this experience now...credit card debt, i feel that is within my control..feelings of stress over this...I somehow feel that I am responsible for this. Not sure how to look at this..when i really look, Is there control over experience of whatever is happening???Right in this moment, nothing is happening, only thoughts of 'Look what you have done' You got yourself into a pickle' Now what? SO many negative thoughts surrounding this problem...I am believing these thoughts and feel a bit lost today...credit card debt is happening now, i feel that i created all of this. At least only this situation, so on some level i would say yes, to this particular situation

[Indira1]

What are you responsible for?

Another good question...i am responcible for paying the bills and how i use the credit card

[Indira1]

Is there control over experience of whatever is happening?

I want to do this question again, in direct experience now, now, just thoughts appearing and typing out words. no control

[Indira1]

What are you responsible for?

i want to answer this question again, In this moment nothing. As far as what was written about credit cards, when looking, spending just happened, there was no control only just doing. The thoughts about it are just thoughts claiming responcibilty. Thoughts of dollar amounts, thoughts of the future, fear thoughts happening now all day today about it..Those thoughts, there is no control. There is slight relief in looking right now, really looking. There is no bad person or someone doing anything as the thoughts claim. Just fearful thoughts appearing about the card. Right now, nothing is happening just typing, sitting happening, breathing. All is well in this moment.WoW!

[Indira1]

Strangely, there is this peace that cannot be explained, especially after my second answer. In answering this twice. Like what was said, i love these questions, they are really grounding...Thank you