Natestari

[Natestari]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

ANSWER:

There is no separate entity, self, me at all, anyway in any shape or form. There never was. I am all that is.



2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

ANSWER: The illusion of separate self starts in early childhood as one becomes identified with a name and adapts beliefs and personality based on experiences.



3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.

ANSWER: To see this brings peace. A real seeing it's all just happening and there is no need to label anything as right or wrong, to judge it, and to just allow it to be exactly as it is. This allows a feeling of flow.



4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

ANSWER: Seeing there is no choice in anything that happens. It's happening. I am awareness/consciousness experiencing everything. Experiencing that awareness and letting go of the narrative.



5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.

ANSWER: No decision, intention, free will choice or control. Just the happening and then mind/narrative over the top creating the illusion of each of the aforementioned....that is the illusion of being a separate self-----that there is a choice when there isn't.



6) What makes things happen? How does it work?

ANSWER: Consciousness makes things happen.



7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

ANSWER: Nothing , everything is happening in perfection.....any idea of responsibility is believing I am the doer and have a choice. Whatever is happening is just happening.....in perfection always.



6) Anything to add?

ANSWER: No

[Elad]

Thank you. Does "consciousness make things happen"? How? Or is that just a story and "how things happen" is a mystery?

[Natestari]

Well yes, I guess in direct experiencecconsciousness too is a label/story.

[Elad]

Well yes, I guess in direct experiencecconsciousness too is a label/story.

You guess or you see? Can you in direct experience see something called consciousness make other things happen? If yes, how? Or is direct experience just one flow and it's ultimately a mystery?

[Natestari]

So I have experienced what I would call consciousness multiple times and it was absolutely outside of anything I'd experienced before....in direct experience it was me, it was everything and it was looking out from me and almost driving me. I have also felt it outside of me. This was using mushrooms but it was undeniable and now I am having more experiences like when not taking mushrooms - it's nowhere as strong but it is feeling similar. But it wasn't making anything happen - it just was happening - it was just being experienced where it hadn't been before. A feeling of absolute love never experienced before too.

[Elad]

So I have experienced what I would call consciousness multiple times and it was absolutely outside of anything I'd experienced before....in direct experience it was me, it was everything and it was looking out from me and almost driving me. I have also felt it outside of me. This was using mushrooms but it was undeniable and now I am having more experiences like when not taking mushrooms - it's nowhere as strong but it is feeling similar. But it wasn't making anything happen - it just was happening - it was just being experienced where it hadn't been before. A feeling of absolute love never experienced before too.

Precious. What we attend to here is what is clear across so-called "special states" and so-called "normal states". And as you say we don't find consciousness "making things happen" in direct experience, that's a story.

[Natestari]

Yes....got it. Narrative over what's happening - can see that.

[Elad]

Yes....got it. Narrative over what's happening - can see that.

Nice.

Another guide reviewing asked this in terms of clarification, starting with quoting you:

I am awareness/consciousness experiencing everything. Experiencing that awareness and letting go of the narrative."

So what experiences what? What experiences "awareness"? Is there a big Self/entity replacing the smaller one? Is THIS/what IS happening like in language where you have a subject and an object - awareness and the experiences?

[Natestari]

It feels like expansion and contraction of the same awareness

[Elad]

It feels like expansion and contraction of the same awareness

Okay, now is this awareness in any way a subject experiencing objects, or might we as well call it "awarenessing" with no I and no subject and no objects? Is subject/objects in direct experience or only in language and thought?

[Natestari]

So the awareness in my current experience is an I experiencing objects in direct experience. This is the current state. I have experienced that which feels like there is no I and I'm one with everything but that is not the current experience. I am writing on this laptop which very much feels like an object, seeing through these eyes .....as words appear on the screen....but which seem to be coming with little thought.

[Elad]

So the awareness in my current experience is an I experiencing objects in direct experience. This is the current state. I have experienced that which feels like there is no I and I'm one with everything but that is not the current experience. I am writing on this laptop which very much feels like an object, seeing through these eyes .....as words appear on the screen....but which seem to be coming with little thought.

This sense of I and objects is not direct experience. You are mixing direct experience with "what I believe in and therefore think is direct experience". In normal everyday life we don't pay full attention to direct experience. We need to understand the difference between how things seem and what we really see in direct experience. This needs more investigation.

Let's investigate. For example it seems as if there is a boundary between you and a chair you sit on (subject and object). But if you just pay attention to the direct experience of the butt on the chair, can you actually sense a real boundary? Or can you only feel sensation, no boundary, no butt, no chair. Can you see that the boundary can only exist outside direct experience, with "the help/construction" from images/thought/beliefs. The "boundary" is just sensation plus an image or belief that there is boundery. Investigate and tell me what you discover!

[Elad]

I'm wondering if this is based on a misunderstanding of the term "direct experience" in this investigation.

Direct experience does NOT mean "how things really appear to me right now", not in this investigation.

Direct experience means what is seen with full attention to what is there, as opposed to beliefs. It is seeing the flow in the five senses (taste, touch, sensation, sound, sight) plus thoughts appearing and disapearing (but not the content of thoughts, which is not direct experience).

Please respond to both this message and the last one.

[Elad]

I'm wondering if this is based on a misunderstanding of the term "direct experience" in this investigation.

Direct experience does NOT mean "how things really appear to me right now", not in this investigation.

Direct experience means what is seen with full attention to what is there, as opposed to beliefs. It is seeing the flow in the five senses (taste, touch, sensation, sound, sight) plus thoughts appearing and disapearing (but not the content of thoughts, which is not direct experience).

Please respond to both this message and the last one.

Ups, the five senses: taste, smell, sensation, sight, sound.

[Natestari]

Ok yes, I was confused about the idea of direct experience.

If I just pay attention to the direct experience of my butt on the chair there is just sensation, no boundary, no butt, no chair. I can see the boundary can only exist outside direct experience, with help of images/thought/beliefs. It's helpful to shut my eyes apparently.