Feet first (or should it be head first?)

[jrm72]

Palm Flipping Exercise
How is the movement controlled?

From DE no idea how the movement is controlled, can feel everything working by itself.
Ignoring the content of thought and focusing on DE, the only sensible thing to say is the hand is controlling itself.

Does a thought control it?

Not any that arise and make themselves known, so from DE, no.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No other controller than the hand itself.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

No DE of how the decision is made to, turn the hand over. If the "I" appears to make a decision to turn the hand over, there is a delay before the hand moves. Have no idea what to make of that.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

From DE, no evidence of who or what chose. This body is right handed, so habit feels the right answer to how the hand was chosen, because the right hand was used.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

No





❤️

[Anastacia42]

Okay, good. You've stayed with DE. But it sounds like a struggle, like there's still a lot of doubt & no ease about SEEING.

Please keep practicing Palm Flipping until it's obvious & easy to see that there's no controller, no mechanism - not even the hand - doing it. That movement arises on its own.


Also, here's another pointer to play with:


Stream Exercise

Imagine for a moment a scene, one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source. It has been raining and so the level is quite high.

Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows to the right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over a small cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side.

Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

1. Can you find anywhere where "James" autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are colour preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!) etc.

Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find someone somewhere?

3. Can anything be found for which "James" is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

As always, relax & have fun!

Loving,

[jrm72]

Okay, good. You've stayed with DE. But it sounds like a struggle, like there's still a lot of doubt & no ease about SEEING.

Yes.

Stream Exercise
Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

The river and its direction are one and the same. The anthropic principle - it is the way it is for it couldn't exist any other way.

Can you find anywhere where "James" autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

No

Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are colour preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!) etc.

Thoughts appear, the answers to decisions appear, no autonomous intervention. Practical issues seem to be taken into account, like the tasks to be done, the weather etc, but who is doing the deciding? Unknown.

Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find someone somewhere?

No autonomous entity can be found by direct experience. There is something, doing something, but whatever it is, isn't the "me" that appears to claim responsibility.






Can anything be found for which "James" is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

Well "James", if that label is used to describe this body/mind, has been responsible for loads of shit.
But if by "James" you mean the "I", the "self", then what can an unfindable/non existent thing be responsible for - nothing.





James 🤣

[Anastacia42]

Yes, true.

Since everything is arising on its own there is nothing to be responsible for, even if James did exist.

How does it feel to see this?

Relax into it.

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Yes, true.

Since everything is arising on its own there is nothing to be responsible for, even if James did exist.

How does it feel to see this?

Relax into it.

Loving,

[jrm72]

Hello Stacy,

I've been driving all day.

The label associated with my DE is knackered.

Will relax into bed tonight and other things tomorrow.

Love from Jamesless 🤣

[Anastacia42]

Okay.

[jrm72]

Since everything is arising on its own there is nothing to be responsible for, even if James did exist.
How does it feel to see this?
Relax into it.

Currently no SEEING only KNOWING..
That difference between intellectual understanding as opposed to actual experience.
The difference between knowing about chocolate and then tasting it.

The reaction that came on reading, the above quote, for the first time felt weird, a bit like trying to hold a contradiction in mind, like thinking yes and no at the same time.
Relaxing into it felt ok, like, if that's the way things are, then that's the way things are.

There were thoughts about - "well if James isn't responsible for anything, then James can do what he likes"
Wondered about whether there would still be thoughts and suffering around guilt and embarrassment etc.

But then a realisation that James doesn't get to choose anyway, even though it still feels like he does.


Jamesless 🖖

[Anastacia42]

I suggest rereading your whole thread, revisiting am the pointers through LOOKING. LOOK & let thinking take care backsest.

Ok?

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

I suggest rereading your whole thread, revisiting all the pointers through LOOKING. LOOK & let thinking take a backsest.

(Sorry. Corrected 2 typos. it is 5 am here)

[jrm72]

Thank you Stacy,

Will. follow your instructions.

JL ❤️🖖

[jrm72]

All the way back to the first pointer in this thread -

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Driving a car

Seeing the road & other cars, simply= image/color
Smelling petrol fumes, simply = smell
Feeling the seat against my butt, simply = sensation
Tasting peanuts, simply = taste
Hearing the radio, simply = sound
Thought about driving in traffic, simply = thought

[jrm72]

Direct experience
Pay attention to how it FEELS to see this way.

It feels broader, more natural, less limiting with labels not getting in the way.

Does it fit with LU using the term 'focus' instead of 'see'?
For then it works with the other senses -

Focusing on hearing without labelling
Focusing on touching without labelling
etc



❤️

[jrm72]

This popped into my head -


When you look at someone, all you really know about them is the story you create around the little you know and the lot you make up.
Now since everyone is doing that about everyone else, and we're also doing it about ourselves, what do we do about a world of stories?
Is this important?


❤️🖖

[Anastacia42]

Hi

No. Use the senses please. "Focus" implies both choice & thinking, nether of which is true.

What I do about a world of stories is guide here.

Also sed folks to www.thework.com to question stories about each other that you mention.

You might like to read Byron Katie's books, particularly "Loving What Is" and "A Mind at Home With Itself "

Now.... Can you say 100% there's no separate "self" and never has been? That it was all made up?


If not, what is missing?

Loving,