Readiness

[Deborah21]

1)

Ho

w many things do you find? Are there two things (hand and desk) or is there one thing – sensation?

when the bed thing happened, even though there was a sensation/contact with the mattress and the covers on top, in that moment, i didnt seem to feel it/or differentiate/or something.  in this exercise, i can feel that there is only the sensation

3) Do you notice 'one thing feeling another thing'? Or is there just 'a sensation'?

just the sensation

4) Do you find an 'I', a body, a hand 'feeling' . . . or is there just 'a sensation'? What do you find?

 

there is just the sensation, i couldnt find i in the sensation.

2) Can a ‘feeler’ be found in 'what is being felt'?

Can an inherent feeler be found?

Would anything that is suggested as the feeler, be anything other than a concept, idea or thought?

there were lots of loud thoughts that would go away and come back.  a lot about neurons and touch and pain receptors firing from this hand to this brain which made this shape argue that the sensations belong to it.  

[Bluejay]

there were lots of loud thoughts that would go away and come back. a lot about neurons and touch and pain receptors firing from this hand to this brain which made this shape argue that the sensations belong to it.

You didn't answer the question so was a feeler found? :)

[Deborah21]

You didn't answer the question so was a feeler found? :)

there was no feeler in the sensation

[Bluejay]

Good, good!

And what about this:

Seeing Exercise

The usual belief that 'I am this body' is usually tied in with the belief that the body as a separate item is responsible or 'doing' the senses - 'I see', 'I hear', 'I feel' and so on.

In this exercise, we'll focus on seeing.

So, close your eyes.

With eyes closed, you will now experience 'blackness'. There may be other things going on, but the specifics aren't important.

I'm going to keep things simple and use the term 'blackness' for whatever you can see while your eyes are closed.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?

2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?

3) Can what is witnessing the blackness be found?

4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?

What do you find?

Can an inherent see-er be found?

Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept, idea, or thought?

[Deborah21]

There may be other things going on, but the specifics aren't important.

sometimes when i do this there are images or colourful kaleidoscopic patterns, now just pinpricks of light moving or patches of light - can i call this the blackness?

[Bluejay]

yes, sure :)

[Deborah21]

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?

yes

2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?

no 

3) Can what is witnessing the blackness be found?

no, its there, like its everywhere but not in one place.

4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found

i had two experiences of witnessing the blackness.  initially as if from a vantage point somewhere in the distance, where i could find a hint of a me and the second like witnessing it while what felt like being in it, where there was just blackness to be found, theres no space between the witnessing and the blackness, the witnessing is just part of the happening?

Can an inherent see-er be found?

No

Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept, idea, or thought?

No

[Bluejay]

i had two experiences of witnessing the blackness. initially as if from a vantage point somewhere in the distance, where i could find a hint of a me and the second like witnessing it while what felt like being in it, where there was just blackness to be found, theres no space between the witnessing and the blackness, the witnessing is just part of the happening?

Yes, the witnessing is what is being witnessed, or they are the same thing.

If we take a sequence, it's not witnessing-sensation, witnessing-sound, but something like witness(sensation/image in head somewhere), sensation, sound. If that makes sense?

Now, can you say with 100% certainty that there is no inherent self anywhere to be found?

[Deborah21]

If we take a sequence, it's not witnessing-sensation, witnessing-sound, but something like witness(sensation/image in head somewhere), sensation, sound. If that makes sense?

please can you say that to me again, in a different way?

[Bluejay]

I'll try...

There's often a sensation somewhere that is labeled the witness.

Then if there's a sound, for example, attention jumps from 'witness' to sound, and it feels like the witness is watching/listening to the sound, when in fact the witness is just another sensation+thought.

So the witness is just one thing in the sequence of things arising and falling away.

Does this make any sense?

Feel free to ask more if not :)

[Deborah21]

Then if there's a sound, for example, attention jumps from 'witness' to sound, and it feels like the witness is watching/listening to the sound, when in fact the witness is just another sensation+thought.

is the thought - that there is a witness? as opposed to another sensation in the happening.

[Deborah21]

Now, can you say with 100% certainty that there is no inherent self anywhere to be found?

i can ......... i think im clinging on though, starting to let go of the attachment to it.

[Bluejay]

is the thought - that there is a witness? as opposed to another sensation in the happening.

Yes, sorry, I'm not describing it well :)

It's the idea that there is a witness within each of the physical senses or thought that is arising, compared to just each sense/thought arising with knowing of it already there.

In other words, no witness needed separate from what is arising. So the witness is simply another link in the sequence of what's arising, instead of the witness arising with each sound/sensation/image/thought.

i can ......... i think im clinging on though, starting to let go of the attachment to it.

What is the attachment about? Can you share more about that?

[Deborah21]

Heading to work shortly, will get back to you over next couple of days. Thank you Henri :-)

[Bluejay]

Understood!