The Gate

Hi Sebastian, well, another guide suggested I should read your thread, and I did. I'm glad I did.
I think the only thing we really need to do is work out a common language. I spot a couple of areas that we could clean up. The thing with liberation unleashed is that they are focused on seeing the illusory nature of a self. That is, an actual inherently indipendant, separate self. I think you actually see this already.
The way I see it is that what we take to be, the self is a mental construct that conditioning leads us to believe is something actual.
Most of us have arrived at what you experience through spiritual seeking. It appears that you arrived on a different train.
I want to invite you to a zoom meet up that happens once a week where we can tackle this in real time. There will be others there in a similar situation, as well as several guides.
Check your private messages up top for details.

with love

vince

Thank you, sounds awesome!

Hi Sebastian, After talking with you this morning, I'm inclined to think that there's very little work that needs attending.
Tell me what you think needs doing for you to be 'awake'? Keeping in mind that once 'through the gate', the work is just starting.

with love

vince

Thank you again for inviting me. There were many things said that resonated strongly.

Hi Sebastian, After talking with you this morning, I'm inclined to think that there's very little work that needs attending.

I think it may be to the contrary. Like the effect of the diminishing return. The less work left, the more effort for it to be done XD

Tell me what you think needs doing for you to be 'awake'?

I've spent a whole day thinking about your question. Perhaps I need to spend some time alone? Meditate perhaps? Listen to the recording of the conversation if you share it?
But that's only my mind talking. I cannot "feel" that any of the above is right. Actually, after talking with you I've got somewhat stuck in expectations again. Remembering how it was when I was "awake" in the past.
Summing up - I know nothing.

Hi Sebastian, check your private messages for a link to the recording.

I think it may be to the contrary. Like the effect of the diminishing return. The less work left, the more effort for it to be done

I get what you are saying, but effort is a trap. "what we resist, persists"
We need to be more skilful. For a start, stop thinking that something will happen in the future.
Each time a little 'shift' occurs it will be now. Nothing ever happens in the future.

Remembering how it was when I was "awake" in the past.

It was both a blessing and a curse.
Every person that is awake is different. The have different experiences. Every time anything is experienced it is unique.
Being awake now is unlikely to be anything like what you experienced then.

with love

vince

Yes, I see the "effort" as a mind trick and a trap. I see my mind getting entangled in the past ("awakened state") and the future (expected result). I know these are all projections and mirages. It's a mind thing to do the mind things ;)

Good evening Sebastian,

I know these are all projections and mirages.

Can you see that everything that stimulates a sense organ is perceived in a unique way (according to your lifetime of experiencing,) by the brain, & that this interpretation is then projected out onto whatever/whoever you come in contact with?

with love

vince

Yes. I experientially remember the difference when the mind was not engaged, when this interpretation was not applied.
As you said, a blessing and a curse.

Good evening Seb,

I experientially remember the difference when the mind was not engaged, when this interpretation was not applied.

If we look at this a bit closer, are you saying that thoughts were present but not insisting on engagement?
When that "interpretation was not applied", was another used?

vince

It is extremely hard to put this in words without bumping into a paradox. There were thoughts present at that time. I (?) was witnessing them but they were not attached to "me", they just were present. There was a strong sensation of witnessing and experiencing but a very weak sensation of a witness or an experiencer.
The interpretation was simply not sticking to anything. It was loose and not definite. Actually, there could be many at the same time, contradictory and co existent. And it was fine :)

Hi Seb,

It is extremely hard to put this in words without bumping into a paradox.

Ha yes. I'm happy with paradox (not that that makes it any easier to find the words)
It's excellent that you are sensitive enough to appreciate different intensities of sensation at this level.

but a very weak sensation of a witness or an experiencer.

Can d you separate sensations from the stories that imply a witnesser or an experiencer?

The interpretation was simply not sticking to anything. It was loose and not definite. Actually, there could be many at the same time, contradictory and co existent. And it was fine :)

Ecxellent!

with love

vince

Can d you separate sensations from the stories that imply a witnesser or an experiencer?

Yes,I can.
But I have a nagging feeling that all this is a mental process. This thought leads to another one that I have imagined or assimilated all of this and this projected image in fact prevents me from seeing the truth. There is always a thought that this may not be it :) It's not that I pay too much attention to this thought but it is there.

Hey Seb,

This thought leads to another one that I have imagined or assimilated all of this

This part does not matter. What matters is how you respond to it.

this projected image in fact prevents me from...

How does this work?

seeing the truth.

What truth is that?

There is always a thought that this may not be it :)

Every time that thought arrives, replace it with the thought that everything is IT.

It's not that I pay too much attention to this thought but it is there.

If this thought indicates an actual belief that it's better to give it sufficient attention and see what's behind it. That was a clumsy way of saying don't use this thought to bypass an issue.

with love

vince
ps, I missed you at the meet up.

Hey Seb,

This thought leads to another one that I have imagined or assimilated all of this

This part does not matter. What matters is how you respond to it.

That's a very important note.

this projected image in fact prevents me from...

How does this work?

I would say that there is a possibility that this thought is a belief that obscures something.

seeing the truth.

What truth is that?

Truth would be "no belief", just what is. Of course, belief is, just as well.

There is always a thought that this may not be it :)

Every time that thought arrives, replace it with the thought that everything is IT.

Yep, whenever I am conscious of this mechanism working, I do it.

It's not that I pay too much attention to this thought but it is there.

If this thought indicates an actual belief that it's better to give it sufficient attention and see what's behind it. That was a clumsy way of saying don't use this thought to bypass an issue.

That's exactly why I am mentioning it here. I think it goes well with all you said above.

ps, I missed you at the meet up.

Sadly I couldn't make it this time. I will be there next week!

Good evening Seb,

I would say that there is a possibility that this thought is a belief that obscures something.

What is the mechanism? How does a belief obscure?
Describe the nature of a thought that you label a. belief.
Say something that you believe. (say "it will get light tomorrow morning") and see how it feels. What are the sensations that come when you say it?
Then say something that you don't believe (like "the sun will disappear tomorrow forever") and notice what sensations happen.

Truth would be "no belief", just what is

Is that the same as "recognizing what is actual and what is conceptual"?

Of course, belief is, just as well.

Ha yes!, interesting (apparent) paradox.

whenever I am conscious of this mechanism working, I do it.

Test this to see if it's more (or less) accurate.. "whenever thoughts arise about this stuff, then other thoughts arrive saying "remember to think about the impossibility of separateness" ?

I will be there next week!

Great!

with love

vince