Finding Freedom

[Asterisk1]

Hi Harry

Please see my responses

Just to clarify, the questions I’m asking aren’t designed to be answered through thinking, or any methods or techniques besides LOOKING directly at experience. Please stay with this process as agreed to: thank you!

Agreed - please keep reminding me - assume my responses are from SEEING

Is now moving on a line of time EVER actually experienced?

NO

Does it depend on ‘you’ to be how it is?

No

No but it does feel continuous as long as I am Present

Does it depend on ‘you’ to be how it is?

No

Does now depend on ‘your’ recognition?

No

Is there ever an actual experience of now becoming the past?

No

Code: Select all

Try to stay with LOOKING, not thinking or remembering. LOOK as if it were the first time.

Thank You – Please keep reminding me - it really helps

The ‘past’ has gone & is just a memory & therefore not a direct experience anymore

Can you SEE this directly, or is this just in theory?

If thoughts come about a certain memory “I” can SEE they quickly come then quickly go & have a certain illusory quality – with DE’s there is a certain aliveness & involvement as if "I" am in the middle of it

No – just thoughts about time – the past has gone, the future has not arrived – there is only Now , however again “I” only recognise this when I am fully Present

Can you SEE this directly, or is this just in theory?

I can SEE this – my caveat is always about Presence though

It is difficult to answer questions without referring to “I” - “I” am fully aware that there is No self – No Ego – however “I” forget at times & that's the problem – especially when i am busy at work - when I am fully present which is happening more often with your help - it is much easier to recognise these truths - when I am not , it is like these truths don’t exist – hope this make sense

Is time ever actually experienced, regardless of your state?

No

[Harry]

Hi Asterisk,

Great work once again! You’re doing really well.

It is difficult to answer questions without referring to “I” - “I” am fully aware that there is No self – No Ego – however “I” forget at times & that's the problem – especially when i am busy at work - when I am fully present which is happening more often with your help - it is much easier to recognise these truths - when I am not , it is like these truths don’t exist – hope this make sense

Yes, I understand that this recognition can come and go, appearing to be absent in the presence of distraction. Sometimes this experience is called, ‘got it, lost it’.

Also, I appreciate that trying to articulate direct experience accurately is a bit finicky, as language is so dualistically structured.

However, it’s important that I can be clear when you are SEEING directly that there’s never a self in any state…


In addition to the SEEING of no-self, can a SEER who is doing the SEEING be found? Or is there just the SEEING?

In addition to Thoughts Arising, is there a thinker who is lost in thought? Or are there just Thoughts Arising?

What is actually experienced?



If something that is happening is SEEN, there’s no need to refer to an ‘I’ who is doing it.

For example:

• instead of saying ‘I am thinking’, or ‘I am hearing’, or ‘I am walking’

• you can say that ‘thoughts are happening’, ‘hearing is happening’, or ‘walking is happening’. Or, just ‘thinking’, ‘hearing’ or ‘walking’.

For the first option, there is a seperate ‘I’ who is doing whatever is happening.

For the second option, there is just whatever is happening.


Is this distinction clear to you?

If so, which one feels truer? Which one best reflects your experience?

[Asterisk1]

Yes, I understand that this recognition can come and go, appearing to be absent in the presence of distraction. Sometimes this experience is called, ‘got it, lost it’.

Cheers - now you understand the stage that i am at - Got it Lost It explains it perfectly

Also, I appreciate that trying to articulate direct experience accurately is a bit finicky, as language is so dualistically structured.
However, it’s important that I can be clear when you are SEEING directly that there’s never a self in any state…

Never ever a Self when I am in the “Got It” state

In addition to the SEEING of no-self, can a SEER who is doing the SEEING be found? Or is there just the SEEING?

Just SEEING

In addition to Thoughts Arising, is there a thinker who is lost in thought? Or are there just Thoughts Arising?

What is actually experienced?

Just thoughts arising – there is SEEING of these thoughts but No Seer

If something that is happening is SEEN, there’s no need to refer to an ‘I’ who is doing it.

For example:


• instead of saying ‘I am thinking’, or ‘I am hearing’, or ‘I am walking’
• you can say that ‘thoughts are happening’, ‘hearing is happening’, or ‘walking is happening’. Or, just ‘thinking’, ‘hearing’ or ‘walking’.

For the first option, there is a seperate ‘I’ who is doing whatever is happening.

For the second option, there is just whatever is happening.


Is this distinction clear to you?

Yes

If so, which one feels truer? Which one best reflects your experience?

The 2nd One Definitively – there is more involvement – by putting I it feels one step removed - from the 1st exercises I try & do this during the day by noting experiences throughout the day – it helps to keep in the “Got it” state – it helps to stay as the witness of experiences

[Harry]

Hi Asterisk 1,

Never ever a Self when I am in the 'Got It' state

Is there ever really a self, regardless of your state? If so, can you pinpoint it exactly, referring to your actual, direct experience?

Just SEEING

Great work :).

it helps to stay as the witness of experiences

Again, is there really a witness, in your actual experience? Or is there just witnessing?

Is there a border or boundary separating experiences and the witnessing of them?

[Asterisk1]

Hi Harry

Apologies - i have been really busy - however i have been practising religiously - please see my replies

Is there ever really a self, regardless of your state? If so, can you pinpoint it exactly, referring to your actual, direct experience?

No there is never a self in DE

it helps to stay as the witness of experiences
Again, is there really a witness, in your actual experience? Or is there just witnessing?

Just Witnessing

Is there a border or boundary separating experiences and the witnessing of them?

No boundary can be found in my DE

What i will say is - Sometimes during a direct experience it initially feels it is happening to “me” – for example if a sound is heard – the initial reaction is “I” heard that sound - however under investigation No Self can ever be found & there is just hearing

In some cases during the exercises the glimpses occurred is that “I” seem to have merged into a field of experience where it is happening all around with pure involvement of all the senses - rather than just witnessing something "out there" - Its almost like going deeper into the moment where sights , sounds , touch etc become more defined - if that makes sense ?

To be clear – a self can never be found under investigation

[Harry]

Hi Asterisk 1,

You’re doing great! Good work. Lots of clear SEEING, that’s the idea.

What i will say is - Sometimes during a direct experience it initially feels it is happening to “me” – for example if a sound is heard – the initial reaction is “I” heard that sound - however under investigation No Self can ever be found & there is just hearing

In some cases during the exercises the glimpses occurred is that “I” seem to have merged into a field of experience where it is happening all around with pure involvement of all the senses - rather than just witnessing something "out there" - Its almost like going deeper into the moment where sights , sounds , touch etc become more defined - if that makes sense?

To be clear – a self can never be found under investigation

Yes that’s right, the sense of a seperate, ‘inside’ perceiver dissolves when you LOOK for it. Good work! You’ve SEEN this. This shows us that its an illusion and never actually there, because it always ‘vanishes’ when it’s sought!

Is this clear?

Keep going with this great work, and whenever you feel that your objects of perception are witnessed ‘out there’, look for the witness from which they are perceived. Is there anything to be found?


Doership Exercise

Look on your right.
Then look on your left.
Finally, bring your head back to centre, close your eyes and look in front.

When you look on the right, the view on the right is seen (whatever that is).
When you look on the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).
And then, when you look in front of you with eyes closed, the view in front is seen (ie ‘black space’).

When the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see?

I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes.

The question is; can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?
Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?
Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’? Can you turn off seeing?

What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?
If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

[Asterisk1]

Hi Harry - please give me a couple of days as usual on these exercises to get maximum benefit - cheers

[Asterisk1]

Hi Harry

Please see my responses from my Direct Experience of SEEING

Yes that’s right, the sense of a seperate, ‘inside’ perceiver dissolves when you LOOK for it. Good work! You’ve SEEN this. This shows us that it’s an illusion and never actually there, because it always ‘vanishes’ when it’s sought!
Is this clear?

Yes it is clear - the false identity can never be found when it is observed but i have always have to have my guard up - its almost like i have to keep watch out for the little voice in my head then question its validity - when thsi is done it disappears

Doership Exercise

Look on your right.
Then look on your left.
Finally, bring your head back to centre, close your eyes and look in front.

When you look on the right, the view on the right is seen (whatever that is).
When you look on the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).
And then, when you look in front of you with eyes closed, the view in front is seen (ie ‘black space’).

When the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see?
During these exercises there is no choice to see - the seeing is always there – it cannot be switched off – this is a direct experience

I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes.

The question is; can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?

No – the SEEING is always there - all the time

Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?

The SEEING is constant - it is always there

Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’? Can you turn off seeing?

No – the SEEING cannot be switched off

What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?

Under investigation a chooser could not be found

If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

A Chooser cannot be found during these exercises - Apologies if i give a more detailed explanation - it’s almost like a certain amount of trust in the whole process needs to occur. A Doer / Chooser cannot be found during the exercises so does that mean this is the case for every single action & decision in life? - which is big !!!

I particularly do these exercises whilst out walking & I can SEE my body moving without a DOER which is a strange but liberating feeling - I even do this whilst watching TV at times

[Harry]

Hi Asterisk 1,

Lots of SEEING here. Great work!

Yes it is clear - the false identity can never be found when it is observed but i have always have to have my guard up - its almost like i have to keep watch out for the little voice in my head then question its validity - when thsi is done it disappears

Great work.
Just to make sure this process is seen clearly…

is there a self who has to watch or have their guard up? A ‘guarder’ or ‘watcher’? Or is there just the watching/guarding?

Great answers for the next few! Well done.

Apologies if i give a more detailed explanation - it’s almost like a certain amount of trust in the whole process needs to occur. A Doer / Chooser cannot be found during the exercises so does that mean this is the case for every single action & decision in life? - which is big !!!

No worries. That’s right, the fact that there’s never a doer/chooser is big! However, don’t take my word for it, or settle with an account of memory, LOOK to find out if there ever is a doer/chooser, every time as if it’s the first time.

On the other hand, there’s never been a doer or a chooser, so nothing is lost. As well as being ‘big’, it’s also absolutely ordinary: the way things already are.

[Asterisk1]

Hi Harry

Please see my responses

Yes it is clear - the false identity can never be found when it is observed but i have always have to have my guard up - its almost like i have to keep watch out for the little voice in my head then question its validity - when thsi is done it disappears

Great work.
Just to make sure this process is seen clearly…

is there a self who has to watch or have their guard up? A ‘guarder’ or ‘watcher’? Or is there just the watching/guarding?

Under Investigation – No Watcher or Guarder can be found

No worries. That’s right, the fact that there’s never a doer/chooser is big! However, don’t take my word for it, or settle with an account of memory, LOOK to find out if there ever is a doer/chooser, every time as if it’s the first time.

Agreed – the exercises are done as much as possible during the day - the witnessing of No Doer is paticularly clear during walking

Can I explain where I think I am having difficulty & that is at work – I run a team & have a reputation of being a bit of a maverick & not particularly following rules but I do have a good reputation of getting things done & working to a high standard.
However whilst observing myself constantly I have noticed a lot of my decisions are very ego based - in other words I go against the grain at work not because it’s the best decision but to be seen to be different to the others – if I get challenged it instantly feels like somebody is “attacking me” & then my ego is enraged in which I hit back to colleagues / managers quite hard in either verbal or email clashes – quite often I am correct on the actual matter at hand as I have been doing my job role for over 25 years , but the way I go about the matter is quite confrontational which creates the reaction in others in the first place.
Observation of myself has shown me that this approach is just inflating my ego & there is simply no need to do it – the obvious one being is that now I understand the ego doesn’t even exist in the first place . I can spend sleepless hours during the night thinking about these situations in which i have created them in the 1st place !

During my quiet periods out of work , my mind is calm & the exercises you have shown me hit home straight away - i think i have made real progress & this is where “I “ want to be all the time – however during the week when I am busy at work I can tell the difference - especially working in a busy office.

If you have any advice in this matter to keep me grounded – I would be gratefully appreciated.

[Harry]

Hi Asterisk 1,


Thank you for your message and for sharing. Also, good work once again for your responses.


Please answer this…

Referring to your actual, direct experience, can you choose the next emotion, mind state, or attitude that will arise? Can you find any selection point where you willingly chose any emotion that appeared?

If you have any advice in this matter to keep me grounded – It would be gratefully appreciated.

What you have already been doing, such as LOOKING while waking and driving is really great.

If you can continue to LOOK and SEE in the midst of other activities, it will help to gradually integrate these glimpses into your daily life. All situations can be just as suitable opportunities for LOOKING as sitting quietly. See if in this way, you can continue to expand the contexts of LOOKING.

However, what’s most important in my view is not to try to force or secure a permanent recognition, but to remember that LOOKING is available.


Is LOOKING ever not available?


So, next time you feel defensive, or angry, LOOK to find out:

Where is the self on whose behalf anger/defensiveness is arising? Is there anything to be found?

Is there a self who defensiveness is trying to protect or defend?

Who is the ‘I’ who feels attacked?

[Asterisk1]

Hi Harry

Please give me a couple of days to review - but i would like to Thank You yet gain for taking time to coach me - it is really Appreciated

[Harry]

No worries - you’re very welcome!

[Asterisk1]

Hi Harry

Please see my responses

Referring to your actual, direct experience, can you choose the next emotion, mind state, or attitude that will arise? Can you find any selection point where you willingly chose any emotion that appeared?

At first glance the answer is we do choose – I can decide to think happy thoughts or I can decide to think miserable thoughts - however under investigation there is never a chooser or a doer to be found - so the answer is no !

The same applies with the hand exercise - at first glance I can decide to turn my hand over or not – however a doer is never found if I try to look for it - so again there is no chooser

I need to work at this exercise - like I said previously walking in the countryside is particularly helpful for me to witness non doership & its happening all the time now – however during my working day, especially whilst talking to people I am not usually in the witness position where I can capture the non doeship whilst its happening – if that make sense - definitively better when i am on my own

However – to clarify again - DIRECT LOOKING is now my primary focus in life – I always investigate afterwards & I can never find a person , a chooser , a witness , a doer – in essence there is No Self & this is a direct experience !!

However, what’s most important in my view is not to try to force or secure a permanent recognition, but to remember that LOOKING is available.

Thanks , i'll keep reminding myself of this

Is LOOKING ever not available?

From my Direct Experience – LOOKING is always available

So, next time you feel defensive, or angry, LOOK to find out:

Where is the self on whose behalf anger/defensiveness is arising? Is there anything to be found?

Under Investigation – the person is NEVER found

Is there a self who defensiveness is trying to protect or defend?

No – there is nobody there

Who is the ‘I’ who feels attacked?

My false identity that does not exist in the first place & can never be found under investigation

Thank You – this has really helped me

[Harry]

Hi Asterisk 1,

Great work, once again. I’m happy to see how well you’re doing and I’m glad this has helped you, so thanks for letting me know.

At first glance the answer is we do choose – I can decide to think happy thoughts or I can decide to think miserable thoughts - however under investigation there is never a chooser or a doer to be found - so the answer is no!

The same applies with the hand exercise - at first glance I can decide to turn my hand over or not – however a doer is never found if I try to look for it - so again there is no chooser

Good work. How does it feel to see that there’s no chooser?

I need to work at this exercise - like I said previously walking in the countryside is particularly helpful for me to witness non-doership & its happening all the time now – however during my working day, especially whilst talking to people I am not usually in the witness position where I can capture the non doeship whilst its happening – if that make sense - definitively better when i am on my own

However – to clarify again - DIRECT LOOKING is now my primary focus in life – I always investigate afterwards & I can never find a person , a chooser , a witness , a doer – in essence there is No Self & this is a direct experience !!

This is good too, let’s investigate a few things though:

Is witnessing non-Doership something you do? Or does it also happen on its own?

When you’re talking, speech and listening can be found, but can that which talks and that which listens be found? Is there some self there that is authoring/controlling/doing it? Or is there just what’s happening?

Does witnessing happen from some point or position, by a localised witness? If so, can you pinpoint it exactly?


Is there any distance, separation or edge between that which is witnessing, and that which is witnessed?


Great work for the rest of your responses.