Re: Inquiry with forgetmenot
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:44 pm
No worries Kay. Take your time.
Allen
Allen
Liberation Unleashed Forum The Gate
https://liberationunleashed.com:443/nation/
https://liberationunleashed.com:443/nation/viewtopic.php?t=8121
The word/label "body" refers to thought content and the concept of a human body.What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
The actual experience of the body is thought. Thought points to sensation and labels it a ‘body’, but can a body be found as actual experience or only thoughts about a body?The actual experience of the body is just sensation.What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
The actual experience of the body is thought. Thought points to sensation and labels it a ‘body’, but can a body be found as actual experience or only thoughts about a body?
Is it a head, or is it just a sensation (labelled ‘pressure’) and thoughts ABOUT a head?
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?
And is there anything between the pressure points, or are there just thoughts about something being in between them.
Without thought, how big is your head?
Without thought, does it have an inside or an outside?
Without thought, does it have a location?
So, can a thought come from a sensation?
Can a thought come from a mental image?
Does the mental image suggest in any that it is a ‘forehead’?
Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘forehead’?
Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘me’?
Other than thought, can you find anything that suggests the sensation labelled as ‘forehead’ is a forehead or a me?
Can sight (colour) come from a sensation?
Can sight come from an image (of the eyes)?
Can a 'mental image' come from a sensation?
Does a mental image suggest in any way that it is eyes?
So you can see how much thought plays a role in the idea of separation? The complexity of the dream to ensure that the idea of separation is real…is absolutely amazingly mind blowing!It takes thought to imagine that there's distance or location for the two points or that there's something between them. In experience there's just sensation present.And is there anything between the pressure points, or are there just thoughts about something being in between them.
Wonderful! So it is seen that there certainly can’t be a me hiding in something called a head, no matter how 'real' it feels that a me is somewhere in something called a head!Just a sensation and some mental images (thoughts) are present.Is it a head, or is it just a sensation (labelled ‘pressure’) and thoughts ABOUT a head?

When we are ‘doing’ thinking - concentrating on our thoughts in solving a problem, doing a math equation, or being caught up in stories (heavy thinking), the focus naturally tends to go to the forehead and from this, gives the impression that “I am thinking’ and that thoughts are found in the head. Just something to keep in mind.No. But I don't really tend to think of the "forehead" as a me.Other than thought, can you find anything that suggests the sensation labelled as ‘forehead’ is a forehead or a me?
So let’s investigate the above to ensure that there isn’t a me to be found in the chest/neck/head.For me it's the sensations in the chest/neck/head that I mostly associate with a me. But these aren't really a me.
What part of the body did you point to?
What sensations did you feel in your body that identified "I/me”?
Were you able to find and feel "I/me" in a direct way like the other parts of your body?
What did you actually find? Something? Anything? Nothing?
Okay…so let’s do a couple of experiments to further look at the idea of the head and the idea of an 'inner voice'.The "inner voice" is usually thought to be coming from inside the head and this voice is thought to be coming from a me. The "head" sensation is thought of as a me.What sensations did you feel in your body that identified "I/me”?
On further inspection it isn't a me. Just sensation. The voice also isn't a me. And also isn't coming from the "head" sensation.
Have you actually ever heard your thoughts? Just like mental images, are they the actual object or just thoughts about the object?
How is it known that thoughts have a voice, and that the voice is your voice?
Have you ever been able to record thoughts as they spontaneously arise and then play them back in order to hear them, and to hear that they are in your voice?
So do thoughts actually have a sound? Or is the ‘voice in the head’ simply thoughts about sound?
Can thoughts be felt, smelled, tasted, heard or seen, or are they just known?
But is there really music playing, someone singing, someone playing a guitar? Or there are just thoughts about sound?
Does the sound appear in a different place to thoughts, or do sounds appear in exactly the same field that the thoughts appear in?
There's no divide between them. location is a mental construct.Can you find an actual line/wall/boundary that divides the thoughts and the sound? Or is the line a mental construct?
Do you have to overcome any obstruction in order for sound to appear in exactly the same field that the thoughts appear in?
Do the colours appear in a different place to thoughts and sounds, or do colours appear in exactly the same field of awareness as thoughts and sounds?
Can you find an actual line/wall/boundary that divides thoughts, sounds and colours, or is that division a mental construct?
Is there an inside and outside to your field of awareness?
Does your attention ever leave your field of awareness?
Try to leave your field of awareness. Try to come in contact with or attend to something that appears just outside of your field of awareness. Is this possible?
So is it clearer that there cannot possibly be a 'me' that resides in the head (or body) somewhere, and that it is only thought, a concept that seems to strongly suggest this with a 'feeling tone' of "I am located in a head"?
So where are you at now with our explorations to date? If you can give me an update that would be great. Just how you are, how you feel about what we have explored, any insights that have brought any differences, any perception shifts, and so on?
Great! Next time a sensation arises which gives thought to it being me, check to see if that sensation is any different to any other sensations that arises and subsides. Yep, intensity may be different, however, that aside, is there any differences between sensations?Yes, this is clear. When I break it down into AE it's very clear. Any sensations are not a me and any thoughts are also not a me.So is it clearer that there cannot possibly be a 'me' that resides in the head (or body) somewhere, and that it is only thought, a concept that seems to strongly suggest this with a 'feeling tone' of "I am located in a head"?
Yes, there is no personal me that is the doer, feeler, thinker or sayer. In other words, you are not responsible for any personal doership of any sort. Doings, feelings, thoughts etc happen, but you are not the creator ie doer of them, you do not make them happen.I'm doing well! It's pretty clear that there's no entity that's a me in experience. There's also less doubt from the mind about this compared to when we first started. Although I can't say that doubt is completely gone. But when there's doubt I can easily break things down into AE and check.So where are you at now with our explorations to date? If you can give me an update that would be great. Just how you are, how you feel about what we have explored, any insights that have brought any differences, any perception shifts, and so on?
Yes, that me isn’t going to go, as this exploration is not about getting rid of the me that is living life. It’s to see that the me you thought yourself to be, the me that is finite, separate, autonomous self that suffers, is not you. However, that doesn’t mean that there is nothing happening, that there is no you. I DO not exist and the I DOES not exist are very different!As far as my day to day experience, things are pretty much the same, just less doubt about a me somewhere. I still find myself operating from the perspective of being a me a lot, thinking from the perspective of a me, still getting caught up in thoughts, etc. But all this still doesn't mean that there's a me in existence.
Insights come out of the blue. It is no more a doing than the heart beating. So you don’t have to do anything to have insights/realisations. Many people have insights in the shower, or when walking, for example. So what I mean is, you can’t think insights into happening. They just happen when they do. However, observing is just a good practice that allows you to be aware of what IS, as opposed to what thought says is going on.I have to admit that lately I haven't been doing the best job of being the observer at all times. I will try to do better in this area. A key thing that you told me was that realization and insights don't come from the realm of thought, so I realize how important this is.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?
There's only colour and shapes that by themselves don't suggest anything.Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colours and shapes?
Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?
Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?
Yes, it can seem more difficult because the belief is that I am located in the body, and that the body’s eyes are seeing and as I am in the body, then I can be located walking in or through a room; therefore I am walking (moving) through the room. When in actuality the body and the room are appearing within You (not Allenself), and moving through You. That is the idea of pointing to their being no AE of a body, and an internal and external experience of a body cannot be found as AE. The exercises we did on whether thoughts appeared in a head and sound outside of a head, also alluded to the fact that the head cannot be found as AE, so can experience be divided into internal and external. Everything is appearing in/as You, consciousness, and consciousness is not housed in a body.This one was more difficult I think because the image of the "room" was moving. It was hard not to feel like I'm moving through a room. But I can see how only sensation and colour are present.Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?
When in actuality the body and the room are appearing within You (not Allenself), and moving through You.
Has this body image + story ever appeared before - or is this the only time you have ever been aware of these *exact* colours and this exact story about the body?
Can you find any previous appearances of the body? Where are they? If not how can it be known that the body has appeared before?
Is the appearance just appearing 'now' with only a thought-story claiming you've seen this body before?
There is a better way of spending your time. What will sitting still and observing reality do? If you want to sit and contemplate the different perspectives that have opened up for you ie you aren’t moving through the room, the room is actually moving through you, Consciousness…by all means, do so. Contemplate the body and so forth and see where those contemplations lead.Kay, I also wanted to ask you, would it help if I took some time out of my day to sit still and just observe reality? Kind of like a practice.