The Gate

Hi Vivien,

K: A pleasant states or feeling are also labels and in the game of "good" and "bad", but there could be tendency for me to cling to them.

V: So what is it that clings to pleasant states?

Can't find this as well. It is just how it is... This is namely the appearance.

Are states and emotions are happening to someone?

No, they just come and go.

What is it that experiences states and emotions? Where is the experiencer?

No experiecer. It is only what is happening.

So is there such thing as doership or doing?

No

Is there a doer?

No.

What is the difference between a happening and a doing?

Heppening is what happens. Doing is something to be done from SOMEONE.

Look around, all colours are given, they are happening. It’s not that the me-character can choose and make colours that are present into different ones. Or choose not to see green and see pink instead. Colours are happening. Shapes are happening. Sounds are happening.

Yes

What about sensations? Are they happening or the me-character doing them?

They just happen. But, even the ME-character (as you describe it) happens as well :D

And how about feelings? Are they something the me-character does or something that is given?

They too come and go. Me-character does not produces them.

Now look, what is not given?

Everything is given. I can not find something that is not given or that must be produced with effort.

What is not happening effortlessly and needs your doing?

Everything happens effortlessly.

Is there anything that is not just spontaneously arising?

Nope

Is the me-character doing anything in life?

What I say here is something that I don't like, but even me-character is the life... It is how everything happens.
If I try to get rid of it, it is how it happens, if I do not - again. But those are not personal decisions. It may seem so, but is not. So if it is seen as not personal ME, than it is how it happens to be.
But a desire to want to find something is again what is happening. :D When looked - there is no body to be found.

Or is the me-character given? As an idea? Or as a self-directed, autonomous entity?

The me-character-that-don't-exist-when-looked-in is given. It is what happens.Someday may happen another thing and there will be no me-character. It is an Idea, but it is how it is. It feels like autonomous entity, but when examined it is not. But that is also what is going on.
I wrote the last sentences with confidence, but please check if i go too far or I overlook something.
Because there are some consequences.

I do not have such desire to meditate or to inquire, to try to get out from this. When I do not feel good I know that is only how it is and that is for nobody. Sometimes a thoughts come, that if I do like this, I won't get out of this, but this thoughts is what is appearing to be and there is knowing that this me-character could not really be found.

But I would say that something have changed.

Warm wishes,
Kamen

Hi Kamen,

What I say here is something that I don't like, but even me-character is the life... It is how everything happens.
If I try to get rid of it, it is how it happens, if I do not - again. But those are not personal decisions. It may seem so, but is not. So if it is seen as not personal ME, than it is how it happens to be.
But a desire to want to find something is again what is happening. :D When looked - there is no body to be found.

You did a nice investigation.

Someday may happen another thing and there will be no me-character. It is an Idea, but it is how it is.

Is there an expectation that the me-character should stop appearing?
If yes, what for?

Is the me-character happening TO someone or something?

Is there someone experiencing the me-character?
And disliking it?

The me-character-that-don't-exist-when-looked-in is given.

And when it's not looked at, then is there a real me-character?

Is the me something that can be turned on and off depending on looking or not looking?

Ss there a me-character anywhere else, except in thought/story?

Is Kamen more real than a character in a novel?

Please investigate these thoroughly.

Vivien

Hello Vivien,

Please investigate these thoroughly.

I spent a lot of time today doing this.

I wonder, if it is up to you, how many hours would you recommend staying on the questions. Is it like 2 hours, or really the whole day sitting on a couch and doing this. I do not work now so I have plenty of time.

Is there an expectation that the me-character should stop appearing?

Stayed a lot on the question today. If i have to be honest, the answer will be - yes and no. I can not say what for, because when I investigate I can not find an entity that has expectations, but the second I stop the investigation there will be subtle desire for this.

Maybe here is the moment to mention about the experience yestrerday. I was sitting on my chair and suddenly I started to go somehow "deeper". So asked myself, what is here - sounds, sensations, thoughts and massive energy of a me thought. So I was wondering why is this energy here when it is from the past. What is the reason to be here. So it started to disappear.
The peace was deeper and deaper so finnaly there was a deep relaxation and in this moment I think I saw FOR REAL through the separate Self. Till now, I got only glimpses. I got glimpses of what I am not, which is OK as well. But yesterday I saw what is going on. So - I am really the experience "right now". It is so pure, there was no suffering, there was stillnes and yet it felt utterly normal. In this moment I can say with 100% that I am this, but beyond the ideas of the mind. The "me" ideas were seen as something very fragile, illusory, a TOTAL Story. Being in this pure "state" it is very easy to see all the illusion. The experience lasted 20-30 min so till the end of the night everything was very peacefull. I didn't want to hold onto it, because it is what just happened. Today also, but if there is an expectation, it is because I see how this is a TOTAL illusion and yet if feels real even today.
I would like to ask you here 2 questions.
1. Have I been lying to you, about each question, that I can not be found? I am always in this Illusion. Yesterday I was not. Actually I am this and not the illusion. When you ask me, do you need to know what I see, for example that I can not be found, or you need to know if I get cought in the illusion even 1 %?

Is the me-character happening TO someone or something?

When I look for the question, I can find someone to whom it is happening. Today this was liberating.

Is there someone experiencing the me-character?
And disliking it?

No and no.

K: The me-character-that-don't-exist-when-looked-in is given.

And when it's not looked at, then is there a real me-character?

It is not real, but there is some suffering (is not that big of a deal) so I guess it is somehow staying there.

Is the me something that can be turned on and off depending on looking or not looking?

Maybe I do not or I can't look deep enough... yet. I still find for this, I do not find it, but this... "energy" is there.
Sorry, I have to be honest.

Ss there a me-character anywhere else, except in thought/story?

I can not find it elsewhere.

Is Kamen more real than a character in a novel?

Well, I saw that it is not. But we have to continue to do this...

Thank you for your patience,

Kamen

Hi Kamen,

You have some quite BIG expectations how seeing through the self should be like, but you are not seeing them as expectations. So please read post several times, to really let this sink in.

As I mentioned in the beginning, every expectation is a ‘hindrance’ in realizing what IS. Expectations result in comparison. Comparison between what is happening, and the imagined expectation. Thus what has been seen can be thrown out or ignored, since it doesn’t match the expected outcome.

I wonder, if it is up to you, how many hours would you recommend staying on the questions. Is it like 2 hours, or really the whole day sitting on a couch and doing this. I do not work now so I have plenty of time.

This is one of the misperception here. It’s good if you can do some looking while sitting and not doing something else, but it’s not about just sitting and doing nothing else. This inquiry is not a meditative practice. If you just sit then a big gap can develop between looking/sitting and your everyday life.

You might not see it, but you treat this inquiry as a meditative practice, as if seeing no self would be about getting into all sorts of pleasant states. It is not that! You have to accept this, because if you don’t you are undermining yourself.

Looking should happen in the midst of your busy life, not just when sitting. You have to incorporate looking into your life. And not by sitting and doing nothing else, but by looking WHILE you are doing something else.

Look, when you are having a shower, making a dinner, eating, having a conversation with others, when you are working… we are not trying to avoid life, it’s not about becoming a sage on the top of the hill and stop having a normal human life. Can you see what I am pointing to here?

Stayed a lot on the question today. If i have to be honest, the answer will be - yes and no. I can not say what for, because when I investigate I can not find an entity that has expectations, but the second I stop the investigation there will be subtle desire for this.

That’s all right. We are not trying to stop any desires… just as we are not trying to stop thoughts, including the me-thought.

If you expect that the me-thought should stop appearing then you can become quite disappointed.
Seeing that there is no separate self is NOT about not having thoughts on behalf of a self. Not at all.

It’s about seeing that no matter how many self-referential thoughts come, there is no real me behind those thoughts.

So - I am really the experience "right now".

Dear Kamen, can you see that you are still grasping to identify with something, to say that I am this or that?

Seeing that there is no separate self is not about moving the identification from the body-mind to “I am experience”. Can you see that this is still an identification?

What happens if you stop grasping for an indentity?

Look… “I am this or that…” is just a thought!. Can you see this?

“I am experience” – is this any different in essence than saying that “I am the body-mind”? – Look and see for yourself that there is no difference between the two. It’s just more story to trying to BECOME something. Can you see this?

In this moment I can say with 100% that I am this

Then you are still dreaming… this is more grasping for an identity…. Seeing that there is no self at the core is seeing that there is NOTHING to IDENTIFY WITH.

As long as there is any identity, the work is not done.

Have I been lying to you, about each question, that I can not be found? I am always in this Illusion. Yesterday I was not. Actually I am this and not the illusion.

This is your sticking point. You have a strong desire to identify with something, and when it’s seen that the story is just a fiction, then you are trying to identify with something else.

Can you allow to not have an identity at all?
Can you allow that the expression “I am this” not to stick to anything?

You are actively sticking the post-it of “I am this” to anything you can find. If I am not this, then I must be this. But look, this is just more story!

There is no I to be anything.
Life/existence is, but NO I.

When you ask me, do you need to know what I see, for example that I can not be found, or you need to know if I get cought in the illusion even 1 %?

Your question is not a question, but a statement. It states that there is an I outside of the illusion who/what can be caught up in the illusion. But this is just more story.

Show me the one who is caught up in the illusion?
Where is this one? Where?

When I look for the question, I can find someone to whom it is happening. Today this was liberating.

Liberating for who? For the imaginary entity who sometimes being caught up in the illusion?

It is so pure, there was no suffering, there was stillnes and yet it felt utterly normal.

Good, you had an experience. And you can let it go.
Since seeing that there is no inherent self does not come with the lack of suffering.

When there is any form of suffering, it’s not just because there is a belief in a self. Suffering happens when certain stimuli poke or touch our ‘wounds inside’. Those wounds are not a person/self. The self is just an added narrative.

And the personality stays almost completely intact when the self is seen through. All the conditionings from childhood, all the traumas, all the gathered emotional pains won’t dissolve in an instant just because the self is seen through. These most likely will stay, however, they are much more accessible and easier to work with after seeing through the illusion. This is just the first step, just the beginning, and not the end. The falling away of conditioning can last at the end of the organism.

It is not real, but there is some suffering (is not that big of a deal) so I guess it is somehow staying there.

Just notice the expectation here. You have an idea that seeing no self = no suffering. But it’s not for the above reasons.

Kamen, you have strong beliefs and ideas how it should be. And now you are hunting for your ideas to try to verify if the self is seen through or not. But you are hunting for stories, fantasies only. It’s not how you imagine it to be. It’s simply not.

Can you let go ALL of your ideas? Or you are trying to hunt of your imagined version of how it should be?

Vivien

Hello Vivien,

thank you so so so much for this post. This is so good. I have no words.
You are absolutely right.

You have some quite BIG expectations how seeing through the self should be like, but you are not seeing them as expectations. So please read post several times, to really let this sink in.

I did it. You are right. I have big big big expectations. I just realised it today... I will tell you more about them a bit latter in the reply.

This is one of the misperception here. It’s good if you can do some looking while sitting and not doing something else, but it’s not about just sitting and doing nothing else. This inquiry is not a meditative practice. If you just sit then a big gap can develop between looking/sitting and your everyday life.

Yes... Thank you for poiting this. It is like this.

You might not see it, but you treat this inquiry as a meditative practice, as if seeing no self would be about getting into all sorts of pleasant states. It is not that! You have to accept this, because if you don’t you are undermining yourself.

I didn't see it, but I saw this. Yes.

Look, when you are having a shower, making a dinner, eating, having a conversation with others, when you are working… we are not trying to avoid life, it’s not about becoming a sage on the top of the hill and stop having a normal human life. Can you see what I am pointing to here?

Yes!

I will continue here with your last question. It was amazing.

Can you let go ALL of your ideas? Or you are trying to hunt of your imagined version of how it should be?

I found out actually, that I have so many expectations and missunderstandings. I saw many of them today so I will write some of them below.

1. There is a way to stop suffering, so I have to go there.
2. Suffering is bad.
3. Not suffering is good.
4. I have to do this or that to stop the suffering.
5. I saw "a place" without suffering many times, so there is such a place.
6. My mission in life is to go there.
7. I have to work hard to do it.
8. People are bad, because they don't work towards this.


And there are ofcourse more. I maybe forgot to mention some of them.

So, what actually happens. When the mind is not so loud, a peace come. So the ME starts to describe it. Maybe, because if there is a verbal description, then it can "go" there again. But the problem with this is, that it is actually ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, and not A THING. But the ME makes a THING from it and then wants to go back. I am not sure if there is a lot of desire to cling onto something. I watched this, maybe very little, but when there is SOMETHING that is made from FALSE identity, then expectation arises. When there is expectation, there is suffering.

So, after your reply today, there was a feeling of frustration, maybe because there was a life, with so many rules and efforts. But it faded. So I didn't really gave a F*** what will happen next. I was thinking "If it happens, will happen", I can not noctrol this.

Then later, I silence started to come. This was accepted as just something that is happening and comming and going.
Then I sat on the couch and this stillnes deepened again. So here I would like to tell you about my biggest fear of dying.
My parrents had many fears. So I maybe get this fear from them. After playing on PC for 17 Hours a day as a teenager I had something like panic attack and then a fear came that I could die. After this day I started seeking. I was depressed and I was constantly thining about, how we are going to die someday and why do we actually live. With the meditations it became better. Now I would say that I am healthy. This was before 12 years. But this fear from death is still with me.
Everytime the stillness comes then this fear arises somehow.
So on the cоuch today I just felt how the silence is comming. Then the fear came. But I thought "who will die" and what if I die. What do I expect to do here in general. If I die I will go home and the suffering will stop. So I just let this go.
So the stillnes deepened and I saw how massive this energy of the fear is. Then I started laughing a lot with some body convulsions and then I saw how the idea of expecting that to contiue arose.
I then said, if this continue will continue, if not it wont. And nothing really happened. It is jsut the thoughts that tell something. This came in waves 5-10 times. So then a time came when this was over and the other activities continued.

I do not want to speak about stillnes or peace, wanted just to mention that when I just accepted the idea of dying I actually didn't and I saw this energy more closely. So I wanted to thank you.

Dear Kamen, can you see that you are still grasping to identify with something, to say that I am this or that?

Yes, Ive been thinking if that is like this or not. I would say NO, but actually there is something that tries to explain everything. There is no fear of not holding onto anything. Maybe this is just the habbit of trying to label everything and to know everything. Anyway, doing this I make from NO-thing A thing. And then I expect to get there. And I then thing that there is SOMETHING, where is not. Because in reality what is seen is absolutely nothing with label "WOW, this is amazing".

Seeing that there is no separate self is not about moving the identification from the body-mind to “I am experience”. Can you see that this is still an identification?

Yes

What happens if you stop grasping for an indentity?

Can't say it is better or not, because the grasper has a pause.

Look… “I am this or that…” is just a thought!. Can you see this?

Yes

“I am experience” – is this any different in essence than saying that “I am the body-mind”? – Look and see for yourself that there is no difference between the two. It’s just more story to trying to BECOME something. Can you see this?

I know what happens. When the mind is still, a peace come. So there is nothing there and no one. The me character is seen as something instable. BUT it then comes and start putting labels - "Ah, yes, this is it baby, we are home." "Thats the place", "This is what the masters point to", "This is the message of Vivien". "I want to get there again", "If I stay here I will get rid of my traumas and pains". But the "state" itself is absolutely nothing. Zero. It doesn't want anything. It does not even exist. This is just a mind story. But then a BIG BIG BIG expectation comes. "Let s go there again". Yes, I see this.
I asked myself today. If I can never go "there" again, what? So after this, the expectation started to decrease it's power.
Knowing even taht this "there" is a mind story. But I accept this as well. It is how it is.

Can you allow to not have an identity at all?

I think yes. It is ok.

Can you allow that the expression “I am this” not to stick to anything?

This is huge. But now I saw how many expectations there are. I think they will be seen only as that from now.

Show me the one who is caught up in the illusion?

I can't find this.

Liberating for who? For the imaginary entity who sometimes being caught up in the illusion?

Yes.


Thank you so much. What you do is amazing and you are really good!

Much appreciation,

Kamen

Hi Kamen,

It seems that what you really want is to stop suffering, and not to see that there is no self at the core. The reason you think want to see that there is no self at the core is because you have the idea if the self were seen through, all suffering would stop. Please look into this… it could be very good if you were deeply honest with yourself.

Just to open up to truth… to your truth… your ultimate goal… to stop suffering.

When the mind is still, a peace come. So there is nothing there and no one. The me character is seen as something instable. BUT it then comes and start putting labels - "Ah, yes, this is it baby, we are home." "Thats the place", "This is what the masters point to", "This is the message of Vivien". "I want to get there again", "If I stay here I will get rid of my traumas and pains". But the "state" itself is absolutely nothing. Zero. It doesn't want anything.

Yes, the state doesn’t want anything. The state is not an entity to want anything. Only entities could want, right?

When there is peace, there is only peace. There is NO you to be in peace.
Peace is NOT a place to be YOUR home.
Peace is just a temporary state… and it comes and goes just as any states or emotions.
When there is suffering, there is ONLY suffering.
There is NO you to suffer.

But as long as you believe that there is an I who could FEEL peace and suffer, then you will continue to run away from experiences.

Just notice and be very honest with yourself… you want to see through the self with the hope that you can ESCAPE suffering… right?

You are running away from suffering, aren’t you?

You have an idea that there is a place called home where there is only peace, and you can stay home, then suffering cannot reach you. But do you see that this is a belief in a me, who is trying to run away from suffering?

What happens if you STOP RUNNING altogether? What if you stop escaping suffering. What happens then?

Look deep within… running away from anything in life will never ever give peace… why? Since no matter how far you run and hide, you will be in fear, what if…. WHAT IF… suffering will find me and reach me again?

Do you see that the ‘state of peace’ is just a hiding place for you?

So why running? Why hiding in a state of peace?
Why not face the thing that you are running away from?

What if freedom is not in running and hiding, but it MEETING what is here now? In meeting the ‘thing’ that you are running away from?

Are you up for this? Are you willing to immerse into the ‘thing’ you perceive as suffering to find out what it is exactly? Are you willing to stop hiding in peaceful states to meet and allow whatever is unfolding here now, even if this unfolding is being labelled as ‘suffering’?

Sit, close your eyes, and bring up a thought or a memory that makes you suffer.
Let it be.
Allow it.
Go to the roots.
Go to the EXPERIENCE of suffering.
What is it? What is the EXPERIENCE of suffering?

Vivien

Hi Vivien,

It seems that what you really want is to stop suffering, and not to see that there is no self at the core. The reason you think want to see that there is no self at the core is because you have the idea if the self were seen through, all suffering would stop. Please look into this… it could be very good if you were deeply honest with yourself.

Yes, you are right. I couldn't realise thise before.

The state is not an entity to want anything. Only entities could want, right?

Yes, the wanting could only be from a thought.

Just notice and be very honest with yourself… you want to see through the self with the hope that you can ESCAPE suffering… right?

Yes. I think, just seeing this is good.

You are running away from suffering, aren’t you?

Yes. Right.

You have an idea that there is a place called home where there is only peace, and you can stay home, then suffering cannot reach you. But do you see that this is a belief in a me, who is trying to run away from suffering?

Yes. I was asking who is this one al day. Just beliefs.

What happens if you STOP RUNNING altogether? What if you stop escaping suffering. What happens then?

Everything is as it is. And here I tell you how it is. Colours, smells, another sensations are percieved and a dreaming about a character is also percieved - sometimes less, sometimes more. An enjoyement of the seeng that the character is not stable also exist. Thats happening. It is how it is.

Look deep within… running away from anything in life will never ever give peace… why? Since no matter how far you run and hide, you will be in fear, what if…. WHAT IF… suffering will find me and reach me again?

Yes. 100%.

Do you see that the ‘state of peace’ is just a hiding place for you?

Yes. It is amazing how i didnt see this before. I don't know how it is possible. It is obvious.

So why running? Why hiding in a state of peace?
Why not face the thing that you are running away from?

Yes. Right!

What if freedom is not in running and hiding, but it MEETING what is here now? In meeting the ‘thing’ that you are running away from?

Yes.

Are you up for this? Are you willing to immerse into the ‘thing’ you perceive as suffering to find out what it is exactly? Are you willing to stop hiding in peaceful states to meet and allow whatever is unfolding here now, even if this unfolding is being labelled as ‘suffering’?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Sit, close your eyes, and bring up a thought or a memory that makes you suffer.
Let it be.
Allow it.
Go to the roots.
Go to the EXPERIENCE of suffering.
What is it? What is the EXPERIENCE of suffering?

It is a me-character and an experience. Then the experience is labelled as "bad". Then the "bad experience" is labeled as "bad" as well and a thoughts come "avoid this", "avoid this", "avoid this". SO if the label of the thing is dropped, then suffering dissappears, atleast the suffering with not so high intensity (hadn't and I couldn't imagine so much suffering that I could explore). So if one wants to reduce this he must drop the me character or to stop labelling experiences as bad. Or both. Actually if they are jsut abd, but for no one, than there could not be suffering.

Thank you,

Kamen

Hi Kamen,

Yes. It is amazing how i didnt see this before. I don't know how it is possible. It is obvious.

We cannot see something until we see it :)

So if one wants to reduce this he must drop the me character or to stop labelling experiences as bad. Or both. Actually if they are jsut abd, but for no one, than there could not be suffering.

This answer a bit conceptual… Don’t make it a thought exercise… actual trigger suffering itself.
Dive into it. FEEL it. Let it be there.

When I ask you what is the experience of suffering, then I mean it literally.
Is suffering a color? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? What is it in experience?

Since emotions play a big role in the illusion of the self, let’s start to investigate them, and see what they really are.
Bring up an emotion, feel it, and let’s examine what is really going on.

An appearing ‘emotion’ like ‘fear’ or ‘happiness’ has two main ‘components’:

(a) a pure bodily sensation, like contraction or relaxation
(b) a mental label stuck to (layered over) the sensation, like “this is fear” or “this is contraction in the stomach” or “uncomfortable” or “I am happy”

So when an emotion is present, identify the sensation, and investigate:

Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that this is ‘sad’, ‘happy’, ‘peaceful’, ‘uncomfortable’, ‘bad’ or ‘good’?

Or ‘happy’, ‘sad’, ‘good’ or ‘bad’, ‘uncomfortable’, are just mental labels on the pure sensation?

Does the pure sensation have any innate attributes, or is it totally NEUTRAL?

Is there REALLY ‘sadness’ or ‘sorrow’ or ‘suffering’, or are there only thoughts about ‘sadness’ or ‘suffering’?

Is there a sufferer in experience?

Is there suffering in experience?

Or there are only thoughts ABOUT a sufferer and suffering?

Vivien

Hi again,

wanted to share something with you.

As there is comming and going of things, there are moments when there are less thoughts and less "me" thoughts in general.
So I see how there is merging with everything. If the "me" was asked, the answer would be that this is "just awareness" or "presence". But in the experience there is no "awareness". There is nothing. This is "nothing-experience". So I saw how I go after something. I go after idea of enlightement, or how i had 2 months in 2018 where there was no "me". But those moments are so pure, just because there is nothing and noone. So i finaly understood, that I WON'T EVER REACH ENLIGHTEMENT:
This is totaly impossible. There is huge seeking energy and I see how this is just an idea. There is no such thing as enlightement. If there is enlightement - there is no one. So the one who seeks it will not get it. Another question is who is it, that seeks enlightement, but just knowing that it is impossible is very good. So the attitude for me now is, everything comes and goes. What will happen will happen, and what will not happen, won't happen and for who will ot won't happen.

Kamen

Didn't see your new post. I haven't red it yet. I will work with it today.

Thank you.

Kamen

Hello Vivien,

When I ask you what is the experience of suffering, then I mean it literally.
Is suffering a color? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? What is it in experience?

Yes, sorry. So, it is a sensation only + a thought that is telling if thats good or bad. The sensation itself is nothing bad or good. It doesn't really couse suffering. Just an energy wave.

Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that this is ‘sad’, ‘happy’, ‘peaceful’, ‘uncomfortable’, ‘bad’ or ‘good’?

No! 100%. This is a job of the thought.

Or ‘happy’, ‘sad’, ‘good’ or ‘bad’, ‘uncomfortable’, are just mental labels on the pure sensation?

Yes. Pure sensations with labels. I see this.

Does the pure sensation have any innate attributes, or is it totally NEUTRAL?

Absolutely!

Is there REALLY ‘sadness’ or ‘sorrow’ or ‘suffering’, or are there only thoughts about ‘sadness’ or ‘suffering’?

Those are the thoughts about it.

Is there a sufferer in experience?

Is there suffering in experience?

No and no. I see this. Thank you!

Or there are only thoughts ABOUT a sufferer and suffering?

Yes. They are less than before though.

Thank you Vivien, thank you for showing me the false ideas of the mind.

Kamen

Hi Kamen,

Thank you Vivien, thank you for showing me the false ideas of the mind.

Mind? What mind?
Is there a mind producing thoughts?

Is there a mind full of ideas?

What is the experience of a mind?

Is there a mind outside of thoughts that talk about one?

Spend a whole day looking at these questions.

Vivien

Hi Vivien,

Mind? What mind?
Is there a mind producing thoughts?

This is just a label. There is no actual mind there.

Is there a mind full of ideas?

No. Just thoughts that come and go.

What is the experience of a mind?

This is just a thought.

Is there a mind outside of thoughts that talk about one?

Nope.

Spend a whole day looking at these questions.

I did.

Thank you.

Warm wishes,

Kamen

Hi Kamen,

Great, nice looking.

Now let’s examine the raw sensations without the labels. In reality, there are only 3 kinds of sensations. Pleasant, unpleasant and neutral. But usually the neutral ones are ignored, we hardly notice them. All the negative emotions generate unpleasant sensations, and in reality there is no difference in sensation of ‘sadness’, ‘anger’, ‘fear’, etc. There might be differences of the location and the intensity of the sensations, but the ‘feeling’ is the same. All these sensations feel contracted (actually the muscles are contracted). That’s why they are unpleasant.

The pleasant sensations are just the opposite of contraction, they feel open, expanded (because the muscles are relaxed) That’s why they feel pleasant. ‘Love’, ‘peace’, ‘calmness’, ‘gratitude’… these are all expanded sensations. The pure sensations of them are the same. There might be difference in location and intensity, but that’s all.

For the exercise you’ll have to bring up certain emotions, both pleasant and unpleasant ones. You don’t have to dive deeply into the unpleasant ones, you just bring up them lightly, just enough intensity that you can observe the underlying sensations.

So bring up the memory of ‘sadness’. When the sensation is present, don’t pay attention to the thought story, just stay with the pure sensation for a minute.

After about a minute let go of the sensation labelled ‘sadness’, and try to slightly feel ‘fear’ (just gently). Let go all thoughts, and just feel the pure sensation.

Now try to feel the sensation of ‘anger’ for a little while. Then let it go. Let your body calm down.
So, could you see that all the negative emotions felt very similar, contracted and unpleasant?
And only the labels make them seemingly different?

Now bring up the feeling of ‘love’, and pay attention only to the pure sensation. Let it be there for a while.
Then bring up the feeling of ‘peace’, observe the sensation carefully.
Now bring up the feeling of ‘gratitude’, and stay with a sensation as long as you like.
So, could you see that all the positive emotions felt very similar, expanded, pleasant?
And only the labels make them seemingly different?

And now the last step. Bring up just the feeling of an unpleasant sensation. You don’t even have to label it, just feel it. When the sensation is present observe it very carefully.
Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that it’s ‘unpleasant’?
Does the pure sensation itself is REALLY unpleasant?

Now, bring up a pleasant sensation, stay with it for a while, and observe it carefully.
Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that it’s ‘pleasant’?
Does the pure sensation itself is REALLY pleasant?

Vivien

Hi Vivien,

So, could you see that all the negative emotions felt very similar, contracted and unpleasant?

They feel like a contraction - yes, but I am not sure if they are unpleasant. Maybe if they are super strong, but I hadn't that strong emptions to examine. Yes they are similar.

And only the labels make them seemingly different?

Yes

So, could you see that all the positive emotions felt very similar, expanded, pleasant?

Yes.

And only the labels make them seemingly different?

Yes

Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that it’s ‘unpleasant’?

Exacty - no!

Does the pure sensation itself is REALLY unpleasant?

Actually - it is not. Atleast if it isn't extreme. In this case I can not say, becasue I didn't examine that strong emotion.

Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that it’s ‘pleasant’?

No

Does the pure sensation itself is REALLY pleasant?

Pleasant and unpleasant are labels of the mind.

Thank you,

Kamen