Looking for some help please

[BeHereNow]

Beautiful answers, Lynne! Reading them allowed me to see deeply myself, I am grateful for your sharing.

Here are some of my favourites:

Life is actually very simple.

We make it so complicated when we forget :-)

Intention is just more thought, although it is conscious thought rather than unconscious thought - ie there is awareness of what the thoughts are rather than unconscious daydreaming.

So true.

there is freedom in having no free will...paradoxically!

YES!!!!

Trying to control is resistance to what is.

You got it.

allowing life to flow, living and loving with integrity, living life as consciously as possible.

I love this :-)

I will now send the thread over to other Guides to review, I will let you know if there are any further questions!

Have a beautiful day, Lynne!

Warm wishes,
Paula

[Lindylou]

Thank you so much Paula from the bottom of my heart. You have been an amazing guide.

I would love to help others with this at some point, whilst realising I'm just at the beginning, so if you have a process at LU then I would be happy to become involved.

Wahoo!!!!!

Lynne xx

[BeHereNow]

Hi Lynne,

Yes, absolutely! You would be a wonderful guide. Once we are complete we will send you a variety of supports and links for after-care including how to start the Guiding process.

Here is one more question from one of the other guides:


You say:

by keeping the channel (of thought) as clear as possible and being present in the now then life can flow with intention and purpose in a more conscious way, with greater richness and who knows, perhaps even more meaning than before. And certainly with a more conscious connection to all living things.

Now...allowing life to flow, living and loving with integrity, living life as consciously as possible. Because the experience is enriched from a conscious perspective, rather than living in a dream state. It's like in one we're switched on, and the other switched off. However...not being in control/having free will does seem to give us carte blanche to do or not do anything and not have to face the consequences??

There seems to be a certain belief about the division between being "conscious" and not being so (what you have called the "dream state"). On and off.

Could you please observe your daily activities and see where this division exists; in other words, when does one become "conscious," and when does one become "unconscious?"

Looking forward to your thoughts, Lynne!

Warm wishes,
Paula

[BeHereNow]

Hi Lynne,

Some additional questions from other guides, please see below:

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It feels ok - and peaceful. Life is actually very simple. Initially when I thought of there being no self, a lot of tears came, i couldn't see the point of life

Can you tell me more about how this felt and how it feels now not seeing the point in life?

Please clarify more about the overall feel of seeing through the separate self, and give more details by answering the following questions:

- What has changed and what hasn’t?
- Can you pinpoint when exactly you felt the shift when realization happened, and how the shift itself was felt?
- Is seeking still going on?

Now I think (forgive the "I" terminology and yes it's just a thought) that by keeping the channel (of thought) as clear as possible and being present in the now then life can flow with intention and purpose in a more conscious way, with greater richness and who knows, perhaps even more meaning than before. And certainly with a more conscious connection to all living things.

Please answer the following questions. Also please let me know what emotions arise in you when you answer them:

Where exactly is this “I” that is going to “keep the channel (of thought) as clear as possible and be present”?
Can you intend to see, hear, think, smell, taste or feel anything, or do they just spontaneously appear moment to moment? In other words, can you set an intention to hear, think, taste, feel or smell something in particular, or do they just spontaneously appear?

What is the actual experience of “intention”? Is it a sound, colour, smell, taste, sensation or thought?

If it is a thought, then how do thoughts arise? In other words, is there a thinker of thought? Is there a controller of what thoughts appear and when? If no, then what is it exactly that controls when or what intentions appear or not?

Looking forward to your answers, Lynne!

Warm wishes,
Paula

[Lindylou]

Hi Paula

Thanks for the extra questions. Challenging as ever!

Here goes...

There seems to be a certain belief about the division between being "conscious" and not being so (what you have called the "dream state"). On and off.

Could you please observe your daily activities and see where this division exists; in other words, when does one become "conscious," and when does one become "unconscious?"

What I meant by that...perhaps best described as an experience from a walking meditation. Looking at everything as though it was the first time it had ever been seen, without thought labelling things....listening, all the senses alive and aware...noticing. Present moment awareness. This feels conscious. Then later noticing that there was no memory of say the last 5 minutes because the mind had wandered and drifted, become distracted, chaining one thought into another and another (this feels unconscious) until...aaah, noticing, bringing awareness back to present moment. So actually not an on/off switch, definitely blurring/transitioning between the two. The feeling is of having being away somewhere, not present, then gently bringing the attention back home, back to the present. So a constant flow in and out of present moment awareness rather than on or off switch

Whilst making dinner, chopping veg while thinking about whats in the diary next week - unconscious, not in present moment. Off somewhere else in thought. Chopping onion and noticing sound of chopping, smell of onion, colour of onion, sizzling of onion in pan - conscious, present. But again there is flow in and out of conscious and unconscious behaviour, not a solid division between them.

[Lindylou]

Can you tell me more about how this felt and how it feels now not seeing the point in life?

How it felt - the thought that everything I had strived for was based on a lie - that everything that was so important to me, that I had worked so hard for no longer had any importance. I lost my frame of reference. The foundation stones of my house crumbled. It was deeply upsetting. The "me/myself/I" - the ego? was deeply wounded. It felt like a personal attack.

How it feels now - there will be a period of adjustment, finding a new frame of reference. What do "I" want or like to do once there is no need to uphold the image of self? A voyage of discovery to come. Allowing life to happen, following intuition. The ideas are new and still take getting used to. No control, no free will. But that's ok.

[Lindylou]

Please clarify more about the overall feel of seeing through the separate self, and give more details by answering the following questions:

- What has changed and what hasn’t?

Nothing has really changed, life is still living itself, just perceiving things differently. Nothing carries as much importance as it did.

- Can you pinpoint when exactly you felt the shift when realization happened, and how the shift itself was felt?

"I" was flying in an aeroplane doing the hand exercise - lifting one hand. Then asking why that hand and not the other. And "I" realised it was just happening, that there was looping of thought until a decision was made, but that it was just happening, not being controlled by a "me". I kept doing it and watching, looking. And it just kept happening all by itself. And it was just - oh! That's interesting! But it wasn't "wow I get it".

- Is seeking still going on?

Ironically I wasn't really seeking this - I stumbled across a non-D group, discussion took place, idea of no self floated out there, told about the LU website....so it all sort of just happened.

Thought has lots of questions, but no doubts in relation to separate self. "My" understanding is perhaps still a mental construct? Except "I" can't get my head around it. And "I've" answered questions from looking rather than theorising ("I" think) ;-)

The answer is, "I" don't know

(Communication and language are challenging without using "I/me/myself")

[Lindylou]

Please answer the following questions. Also please let me know what emotions arise in you when you answer them:

Where exactly is this “I” that is going to “keep the channel (of thought) as clear as possible and be present”?

Yes quite. No controller, no one in control so HOW can anything be actioned or influenced or made to happen or intended or allowed? It can't. Emotion that arises - confusion, feeling of pointlessness. I wrote earlier "allowing things to happen" and "following intuition". This also presumes there is someone allowing and intuiting (which there isnt).

Can you intend to see, hear, think, smell, taste or feel anything, or do they just spontaneously appear moment to moment?

Can't turn off seeing, hearing, thinking, smelling, tasting or feeling. So things will just spontaneously be seen, heard etc. moment to moment. Emotion - struggling.

In other words, can you set an intention to hear, think, taste, feel or smell something in particular, or do they just spontaneously appear?

They do spontaneously appear. But yoga teacher says "set an intention for your practice tonight". So thought comes in "my practice tonight will nourish "my" body". And we are told "send that intention out to the Universe and it will come back."
Is it a) meaningless thought
b) useful thought
c) complete waste of time setting an intention?
This is intention to "DO" something, not setting intention to experience anything. But of course there is no doer. And no intention setter. So intentions may arise in thought, or may not, that's it? Can't be set. I've followed the logic round but struggling with this. But if there's no control or free will nothing can be intended. But what about Wayne Dyers The Power of Intention? All a hoax? Surely not. Feels counter intuitive. Confused.com

What is the actual experience of “intention”? Is it a sound, colour, smell, taste, sensation or thought?

Intention is a thought. No emotion arising

If it is a thought, then how do thoughts arise? In other words, is there a thinker of thought? Is there a controller of what thoughts appear and when? If no, then what is it exactly that controls when or what intentions appear or not?

Thoughts just show up. No thinker. No controller. Nothing controlling when or what intentions appear or not. No emotion arising.

Thanks Paula!

Best wishes

Lynne

[BeHereNow]

Thank you for your answers, Lynne!

Emotion that arises - confusion, feeling of pointlessness. I wrote earlier "allowing things to happen" and "following intuition". This also presumes there is someone allowing and intuiting (which there isnt).

We will clarify the confusion by looking directly at the experience of confusion, feeling of pointlessness.

Emotion - struggling.

Where in AE do you find this emotion of confusion, pointlessness, struggling? Is it in sight, sound, touch, taste or thought?

So intentions may arise in thought, or may not, that's it? Can't be set. I've followed the logic round but struggling with this.

Always go back to direct experience. Try it now. Set an intention. What is happening in sight, sound, touch, taste or thought?

Intention is a thought. No emotion arising

What is happening in the body? Is there sensation?

The feeling is of having being away somewhere, not present, then gently bringing the attention back home, back to the present.

Where is home in AE?

unconscious, not in present moment. Off somewhere else in thought. Chopping onion and noticing sound of chopping, smell of onion, colour of onion, sizzling of onion in pan - conscious, present. But again there is flow in and out of conscious and unconscious behaviour, not a solid division between them.

Who is conscious or unconscious? In AE?

Thank you, Lynne! We are getting there!

Warm wishes,
Paula

[Lindylou]

Hi Paula

Thanks for these I will reply tomorrow evening if that's ok.

Best wishes

Lynne

[Lindylou]

Hi Paula

Where in AE do you find this emotion of confusion, pointlessness, struggling? Is it in sight, sound, touch, taste or thought?

It is in thought. Though accompanied by fuzzy/blocked feeling in the head. Maybe that's just a thought too.

Always go back to direct experience. Try it now. Set an intention. What is happening in sight, sound, touch, taste or thought?

I set an intention whilst walking to "be present". The best description I can give is that setting an intention seems to be a mental equivalent of writing something on a shopping list. A reminder to do something, to have it forefront in the memory. Intention happens in thought, nowhere else.

Intention is a thought. No emotion arising........
What is happening in the body? Is there sensation?

Noticing from time to time (thought) whether intention is being fulfilled (or not). Actually only when it is not being "adhered to".

The feeling is of having being away somewhere, not present, then gently bringing the attention back home, back to the present........
Where is home in AE?

Home is just that which is always there, that which doesn't change, peaceful, spacious. Home has no AE its like the background to everything. AE seems to layer on top of it.

Who is conscious or unconscious? In AE?

No one. There is consciousness but no one is conscious or unconscious.

Thanks Paula

Best wishes

Lynne

[Lindylou]

Ps the realisation came again that everything is direct experience linked together with thought. (Same as occurred to me when running the bath a couple of weeks ago) So anything that is not DE is thought.

[BeHereNow]

Hi Lynne,

I hope you had a lovely weekend!

Thank you for your answers.

anything that is not DE is thought.

You got it.

Let’s look at ‘confusion’ to deepen this insight a bit more:

When ‘confusion’ appears, close your eyes and do the following. You can use this exercise for any emotion that appears.

1) Look at the label/thought ‘I am feeling confused’ itself. See the thought as a typewritten sentence in the ‘mind’s eye’ across the forehead

Does the thought know anything about confusion, or is it just a bunch of letters?
Is the label ‘confusion’ itself confused?
Is the thought itself in confusion?
Can you find anyone/anything in the word itself that is confused?

2) Then ignore everything else but the sensation (feeling of confusion) itself.
Inquire into the sensation and ask if the sensation itself knows anything about an “I” who is “confused”.

Look and see if the sensation itself is the confused self. If the words ‘yes’ , or ‘yes, this is the self’ appears, go back to Step 1 and see the words across the forehead and repeat step 1.

And then look to see if there is anyone/anything in the sensation or behind the sensation that can be ‘confused’.

If other random mental images appear during the noticing of the sensation, check to see if those images are the self who is confused, or are they images that are simply arising and subsiding? If other ‘loud’ thoughts appear, check to see if they are the self that is confused as you did in step 1.

3) Look at colour labelled ‘body’, and then close the eyes and look at the mental image/outline labelled ‘body’ and ask the same questions again.

Do the colours labelled as ‘me/I/body’ know anything about ‘confusion’?
Are the colours labelled as ‘me/I/body’ confused in anyway?

Does the image/outline itself know anything about ‘confusion’ or about an “I” who is confused?

If other random mental images appear during the noticing of the sensation, check to see if those images are the self who is confused, or are they images that are simply arising and subsiding? If other ‘loud’ thoughts appear, check to see if they are the self that is confused, as you did in step 1.

4) With eyes still closed look everywhere and see if you can find anyone or anything that is confused or in confusion.
Can anyone/anything be found?

The label ‘confusion’ is the AE of thought and not the AE of confusion
The sensation labelled ‘confusion’ is the AE of sensation and not the AE of confusion
The image labelled ‘me/I/body’ is the AE of colour and not the AE of confusion
The thoughts ABOUT confusion are AE of thought and not AE of confusion

So what is actually known (ie actual experience) is label + sensation + colour + thoughts ABOUT confusion? But is confusion actually known? Is there any actual experience of confusion?


Notice how there is no 'confusion' in the knowing of colour.
Notice how there is no 'confusion' in the knowing of sound.
Notice how there is no 'confusion' in the knowing of taste.
Notice how there is no 'confusion' in the knowing of smell.
Notice how there is no 'confusion' in the knowing of sensation.
Notice how there is no 'confusion' in the knowing of thought.
So where is this 'confusion'? Is there any confusion in the knowing of the known?

Looking forward to your answers, Lynne!

Warm wishes,
Paula

[Lindylou]

Hi Paula

Thank you....not 100% sure about the instructions but will take them one at a time and do my best...

1) Look at the label/thought ‘I am feeling confused’ itself. See the thought as a typewritten sentence in the ‘mind’s eye’ across the forehead

Does the thought know anything about confusion, or is it just a bunch of letters?

Thoughts can't think so the thought can't know anything. It can link to another thought to provide a definition of confusion. Yes it is just a bunch of letters, although ordered into recognisable words/sentence, not random and incomprehensible

Is the label ‘confusion’ itself confused?

No its just a label.

Is the thought itself in confusion?

A thought can't think so it can't be in confusion

Can you find anyone/anything in the word itself that is confused?

The word is a description, it is not an entity that is confused.

Not quite sure where this is headed...!

A couple of questions:

If other random mental images appear during the noticing of the sensation, check to see if those images are the self who is confused, or are they images that are simply arising and subsiding? If other ‘loud’ thoughts appear, check to see if they are the self that is confused as you did in step 1.

Should this say step 2?

3) Look at colour labelled ‘body’,

Not entirely sure what this means? What colour? Do you mean imagine a block of colour and label it body or imagine body shaped block of colour...not sure what I'm supposed to be looking at, which body etc

Thanks Paula

Will continue this tomorrow :)

[BeHereNow]

Hi Lynne,

So what you are doing here is separating out the label of the emotion from what is actually happening in experience.

Should this say step 2?

It just means if you have other loud thoughts, you can repeat the process from the beginning. Let me clarify it for you:

1) See thought as typewritten sentence in the mind's eye - apply AE to see if the content of the thought is really there (i.e. is there actually confusion in the label CONFUSION?)

2) Feel SENSATION related to label / thought - apply AE to see if there is an "I" related to the sensation

Not entirely sure what this means? What colour? Do you mean imagine a block of colour and label it body or imagine body shaped block of colour...not sure what I'm supposed to be looking at, which body etc

3) First look at your own "body" - it has colour(s), and also shapes. Then, then close the eyes and look at the mental image/outline of your own "body" and ask:

Do the colours / shapes / sensations labelled as ‘me/I/body’ know anything about ‘confusion’?
Are the colours / shapes / sensations labelled as ‘me/I/body’ confused in anyway?
Does the image/outline itself know anything about ‘confusion’ or about an “I” who is confused?

Then continue with step 4:

4) With eyes still closed look everywhere and see if you can find anyone or anything that is confused or in confusion.
Can anyone/anything be found?

Looking forward to hearing how this goes!

Warm wishes,
Paula