Seeing that frees

[Stillness]

Wonderful :-)

Is there still the notion that there is an 'I' who owns experience? It might 'feel' that way, and thought might say so - but is it still believed? Or can you see that it is just thoughts who talk about the 'I' that 'does' something all the time?

Here is another exercise:

You will need a pen and paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation - is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example: I am sitting on a chair, I am hearing a clock ticking, I am looking at a computer screen, I am feeling hungry. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs. For example: sitting on a chair, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the clock. Again, watch what is happening in the body.

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

[Echoz]

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

The second felt more true and natural.

2. What is here without labels?

sensations arising and passing away

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

I can't label as fast as the sensations arise. By the time I label something there are like 5 different sensations coming and going that I didn't label. Having to label makes a new experience, labeling, so it does affect experience because it creates a new one. It also describes the experience, but it's just language and can't ever really capture the what the sensation is.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

There was less tension in the second, especially around the face where tension is common.

[Stillness]

I can't label as fast as the sensations arise. By the time I label something there are like 5 different sensations coming and going that I didn't label. Having to label makes a new experience, labeling, so it does affect experience because it creates a new one. It also describes the experience, but it's just language and can't ever really capture the what the sensation is.

Yes, that's a very accurate description.

What else do you want to look at?

[Echoz]

What else do you want to look at?

At times it feels like everything is just happening, but at other times there is still this feeling of "me" doing it.

I see that thoughts arise and they are never true, but sometimes there is still some feeling of truth or realness when thoughts are perceived.

[Stillness]

I see that thoughts arise and they are never true

Sounds obvious.

But in your own words: what does this mean that 'thoughts are never true'?

What does it mean also with regards to direct experience?

[Echoz]

But in your own words: what does this mean that 'thoughts are never true'?

It's true they arise, but the thought itself or content of thought is not real, even though it can feel real while it's being experienced.

What does it mean also with regards to direct experience?

When thoughts arise they can seem real and are experienced as being real at the time, but the thought is not present in reality, it's just made up.

[Stillness]

When thoughts arise they can seem real and are experienced as being real at the time, but the thought is not present in reality, it's just made up.

Yes! Thoughts appear but their content is not present in reality.

Thoughts are as such 'empty'.

What about thoughts that refer to the main character you call "I"?

Investigate this by looking at it.

[Echoz]

Sorry for not responding recently, was at a work conference the past few days.

What about thoughts that refer to the main character you call "I"?

These thoughts are also empty and seem to make up the majority of thoughts that arise such as "me in the past, me in the future" etc.

[Stillness]

These thoughts are also empty and seem to make up the majority of thoughts that arise such as "me in the past, me in the future" etc.

What about 'me in the present' - can you see this also?

What do you see?

[Echoz]

What about 'me in the present' - can you see this also?

What do you see?

I feel as if I don't have thoughts of "me in the present". I can feel the direct experience and thoughts are apart of that experience, but "me in the present" is just not there to be thought of.

I can easily think of me in the past/future, but even if I try to think of "me in the present" the thoughts can't catch the present moment.

[Stillness]

I can easily think of me in the past/future

Okay, then this "me in the past/future" does it refer to something that exists in reality?

[Echoz]

Okay, then this "me in the past/future" does it refer to something that exists in reality?

No, it does not exist in reality, it's jut imagined.

[Stillness]

Sorry for answering so late, I somehow missed your last answer.

Okay, then this "me in the past/future" does it refer to something that exists in reality?

No, it does not exist in reality, it's jut imagined.

Great! Then where is the 'I' in reality?

Or is it only be found in thought images?

There is experiencing, yes. You could also say "You are here" - but where is this person that you imagine to be 'you'?

[Echoz]

Great! Then where is the 'I' in reality?

Can't find it, just a general sense of being or something

Or is it only be found in thought images?

The "I" is found easily when looking in the past because it's part of this long story of events.

There is experiencing, yes. You could also say "You are here" - but where is this person that you imagine to be 'you'?

It's just made up.

[Stillness]

There is experiencing, yes. You could also say "You are here" - but where is this person that you imagine to be 'you'?

It's just made up.

Good! :-) Yes, it's just made up.

Is there anything else you want to look at? What is not yet clear?