Clear space

[Verananda]

Hi Ecalpemos

fine, sounds great!

so lets see where we are now ....

Actually look. Does experience belong to the body, or does the body belong to experience?

Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience?

Would you say you have seen through the illusion of the separate self fully and completely now?

Are there any sticking points you'd like to explore?

Love Ve

[Ecalpemos]

Hi Ve

Actually look. Does experience belong to the body, or does the body belong to experience?

A. When I sit and look it is seen that the body is part of experiencing and the body is experienced in awareness; but in daily experience it still feels like the body experiences pain, tiredness etc.

Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience?

A. Again, when I 'look' it's clear that there's only experience, but in daily life there's still thoughts of 'me' and my experiences.

Would you say you have seen through the illusion of the separate self fully and completely now?

A. Although there's been a clear experience of seeing through the illusion, It's not the primary 'knowing' in my daily life. I still am living as a 'me' who knows about awareness, rather than awareness with a 'me' arising in it, if that makes sense. I'm aware that it's become an intellectual process in some ways. It could be that it just takes time for the old patterns to drop away, and that I just need to keep coming back to looking. I am aware of thoughts of waiting for a 'breakthrough' or something to drop away. I don't feel desperate or urgent about it, but there's a belief in a process and time.


Love Ecalpemos

[Verananda]

Hi Escaplpemos

A. When I sit and look it is seen that the body is part of experiencing and the body is experienced in awareness;

when sitting still .... is it sensation that is experienced or the body?
with closed eyes .... can the body be found as an entity? Or are there lots of different sensation?
investigate this ....

what is the difference between experience and awareness? or is it the same?
look!

but in daily experience it still feels like the body experiences pain, tiredness etc.

It is good to look in daily life again nad again, like checking what is realy experienced here and now (like in in the exercise above). so it can be sorted out step by step: what is habbit of interpretation and what is realy here and now ....

A. Again, when I 'look' it's clear that there's only experience, but in daily life there's still thoughts of 'me' and my experiences.

thats not a problem. You see that these are just I-thoughts with no inherent I inside?
Thats important.

I'm aware that it's become an intellectual process in some ways.

its good to be aware of it. then you can stop and look.

It could be that it just takes time for the old patterns to drop away, and that I just need to keep coming back to looking.

yes , exactly. Looking in daily life again and again. Don't try to change anything ... just look, be curious and welcome what is ...

I am aware of thoughts of waiting for a 'breakthrough' or something to drop away. I don't feel desperate or urgent about it, but there's a belief in a process and time.

yes it is a process of integration in all parts of life. Nothing to do, just look .....
we don't know how it unfolds ....

I'm off this weekend, so take your time for investigation and report about .... my next post will be on monday!

Love Ve

[Ecalpemos]

Hi Ve

I hope you had a lovely weekend :-)

when sitting still .... is it sensation that is experienced or the body?
with closed eyes .... can the body be found as an entity? Or are there lots of different sensation?
investigate this ....

A. It is sensation that is experienced and the mind labels it 'body'.
When eyes are closed, it is only sensations that are experienced, and there is no body as an entity.

what is the difference between experience and awareness? or is it the same?

A. Experience and awareness are connected - experiencing can only happen because of awareness. Awareness is made up of experiences. Experiences come and go within awareness. Can I have awareness without experiencing? I don't think so, as there's always something to experience. Experiencing is what I am, but so is awareness. One can't exist without the other, but that implies a duality... Maybe they are the same thing! or perhaps 2 sides of the same coin?


Love Ecalpemos

[Verananda]

Hi Ecalpemos,

nice answers! :-)

Maybe they are the same thing!

yes, its the same :-)

are there open questions from your side? something you want to explore?
otherwise I could send you the 6 final questions - a good tool to see if all aspects of the illusion are seen through ..
are you ready?

Love Ve

[Ecalpemos]

Thanks Ve!

There are a couple of things before the final questions please...


1. Sunday was Mother's Day here. My mum died 4 years ago, she was very old and there are no issues for me around this. However, I have 'seen' clearly that there is no 'me' - so that must mean that there was no Josie (my Mum). So who did I love? Who loved me? Who took care of me? Is there no one to remember fondly? I don't know how to work through this and so have just shut a door on it. I can't pretend she didn't exist. Can you help me explore this please?


2. I find myself feeling more and more exhausted and repulsed by social media / news / strongly held opinions. I have deleted a lot from my phone/life, but sometimes still get hooked in - I can see an old pattern playing out, but there's no satisfaction in it now, just a tired and sick feeling. It hasn't just fallen away like it's nothing though, and I'm conscious of trying to get rid of it from my life. I don't know if I'm just trying to 'hide' from something that triggers me because I want peace, and if I should explore it more. I think I may be overthinking it, but would value your thoughts, I don't want to be kidding myself about something.


Thanks again for all your support and guidance.

Love Ecalpemos

[Verananda]

Hi Ecalpemos

1. Both is true at the same time. There is the truth you saw in this investigation. And at the same time we are living this illusion with all its feelings, adverntures, challenges, with future and past, friends, work, family ..... just go with the flow, be curious what changes and what stays same. Relax with it. Life wants to be lived. Dont pretend anything. See thoughts as what they are, regardless of what they say.

2. Beeing conscious about all this patterns is the key. We dont have to change anything. Change happens or not. It is normal that there pops up old stuff after this investigation. Now it can be seen from a fresh perspective. It is not so important what we do. It is more important to be conscious about this whole game playing itself ....


Does that help?

Love Ve

[Ecalpemos]

Hi Ve

Thanks for your reply, it is helpful. Sorry for the delay in responding, I've been in bed with a sickness bug for 2 days, feeling better now.

Please send the final questions over...

Love Ecalpemos

[Verananda]

Hi Ecalpemos,

no problem, hope you are well ....

here they are ...

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
b) What makes things happen? How does it work?
c) What are you responsible for?
d) Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

looking forward to your answers :-)
love ve

[Ecalpemos]

Hi Ve

I'm going to need a few days with this...

My mind has jumped in and overwhelmed me, endless thoughts about how i wont' get it, I'll fail the last test etc. On and on. I feel like I've lost my way with it all so am going back to the start.

The clear seeings I had were so very vast and bright and clear and still, but are now a memory, I can't think myself back to that. I now feel less clear that I did when I started this process, and I know it's my mind tying me up in knots!

Here's what is clearly known:
I am. It's always here and always now. Nothing is ever wrong or missing. Everything is inter-connected. Things change form but nothing ever can be taken out our brought in from nothing. There's awareness here in which everything arises. There's a body and thoughts and emotions that feel like they're part of a 'me' - a separate person, but they are only known through awareness. The body, thoughts and emotions are constantly changing and there's something here (an "I") that is aware of this, so therefore these things cannot be what I intrinsically am. I am the awareness of what arises.

The story of the person has largely fallen away, though I am still that role outwardly in the world. I feel less desire now to defend or strengthen the persona. However, I know that I'm still operating from a person seeking awareness and haven't had the necessary shift required back to a clear seeing / experiencing / knowing.

I'm aware that I've been trying to escape from myself. I know that this makes no sense, if I don't exist - what is there to escape from? But there's something here about trying to get rid of myself to be done with it once and for all and to live in some peaceful state of no person. I'm so sick of the jabbering in my head, I know it's created another structure for me to battle with. I still feel like I'm trapped in my head, and that's where my centre is.

In order to try and get myself out of this hole I'm bringing myself back to the present moment and asking what is real? What is happening now? What is my direct experience? Where is my focus? Any other suggestions you have for self-inquiry would be welcome.


Love Ecalpemos

[Verananda]

Hi Ecalpemos

My mind has jumped in and overwhelmed me, endless thoughts about how i wont' get it, I'll fail the last test etc. On and on. I feel like I've lost my way with it all so am going back to the start.

no problem with that. :-)
if needed we go back to start .....

I can't think myself back to that.

no. instead of that you can look here and now.

I now feel less clear that I did when I started this process, and I know it's my mind tying me up in knots!

its good to see again and again .... its all the story of thought ...!

The body, thoughts and emotions are constantly changing and there's something here (an "I") that is aware of this, so therefore these things cannot be what I intrinsically am. I am the awareness of what arises.

we had this question before: what is the difference between experience and awareness? or is it the same?
so is it two? awareness and that what arises?
is there an I that is aware of? Look for this I!!!

In order to try and get myself out of this hole I'm bringing myself back to the present moment and asking what is real? What is happening now? What is my direct experience? Where is my focus? Any other suggestions you have for self-inquiry would be welcome.

It is very very simple: Look again and again for this I: "I am Awareness" , " I am still that role outwardly in the world.", all kinds and ideas of "I" .... seeing through the illusion is the key!

Take your time for this. We can explore it a bit further if you dont feel ready for the final 6. Or we work with your answeres if there are any unclear aspects. No problem. relax with it ;-)


love Ve

[Ecalpemos]

Hi Ve

thanks for your reply. I had a shift yesterday, I don't want to write about it as it takes me into thinking / stories again. I'm going to be with it for a while and see what transpires. I'll be back in touch in a couple of days.

Love Ecalpemos

[Verananda]

Fine!
Love ve

[Ecalpemos]

Hi Ve

I thought I'd send you an update...

The other day, when I was stuck in the hole of thinking 'I'll never get this', I went back to the question 'what am I?' There was a slight shifting of perspective and the jabbering, thinking 'me' receded and the clarity of present awareness came to the fore. Over the last 3 days I've been abiding with this, there's been a spaciousness and a simplicity, things arise and are seen as such. I changed the duvet cover on the bed (I job I normally don't particularly enjoy) and there was a wonder at the 'observing' of it, the miracle of how it simply happens. I had a long walk yesterday and everything seemed amazing and beautiful, all simply unfolding - and yet things were the same.

it doesn't feel like a big thing, just a small shift in perspective. Old thought patterns pop up and are observed, and can be allowed to float off without being latched on to and made 'me'.

There's a process occurring with this and I feel that I need a few more days with it as it settles down, I don't feel that I'm ready for the final questions yet, but nor do I need anything else, other than abiding with and observing this shift.

I'll be back in touch again in a few days. Feel free to send any observations or pointers if it seems appropriate.

Love Ecalpemos

[Verananda]

Hi Ecalpemos,

that sound very good!
take your time you need for beeing just with this.
its good to wait with the final 6 antil there is the implulse to answer them.

I'm looking forward to your next update or the final 6 - go with the flow! :-)

Love Ve