The Gate

Hi Kay

Do you have any questions about anything we have explored together, or questions on anything you are not clear about? Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?

No questions and no confusion, sometimes it feels that way but it's because I'm not looking closely enough, but as looking continues it becomes clearer. Your pointing is spot on, It makes 'me' look, really look. It might take a while to see clearly but once it's seen it's there, plain as day. Looking continues in every day experiences, whether it be AE now or seeing memory/future thoughts, it's seen for what it is, here and now. I'm sure as we continue you will point until all is seen clearly.

Has it been clearly seen that there is no separate individual (“I/me”), and never has been?

There is still a lingering sense of an 'i' but continually looking at this the sense of 'i' ever being is disappearing. The sense of 'I' appeared to be stronger when 'negative' stuff happens. But when looking at this closer it is just thought, but the sense is felt stronger nevertheless. It's as if thought wants to keep this alive and bring 'i' back into a story by creating this attachment to what it says is negative.
The sense of love, happiness, peace,contentment is felt more deeply and thought will say that this is easier to deal with because it makes 'me' feel good. There is no difference between the so called 'positive' or 'negative' its just thought. It's the thought that lingers about the negative. I will keep looking at this, as there is nothing to 'fear' this label 'fear' by thought is like a defence to the 'i', but it is being seen for what it is.

Do you notice a difference now, to when you first started this exploration, and if so what are those differences?

Yes definitely, the sense of 'i' being now or before is being seen through. The hustle and bustle of every day life dropping away. Instead of getting carried away with one thought after another, just experiencing what is happening now, looking at now instead of getting tangled up in life, worrying about the future or fantasies of what if this, that or the other happens.
Life is happening now and it's great to experience it in the now. I won't deny that there is still excitement at future thoughts or laughter at memory thoughts but it's wonderful to see them as just that- thoughts. Living in the what will be will be is calm' no controller, no doer, just live and experience the now.
The world is being seen through different 'eyes' now as if 'im' walking taller, head up, looking at all that's appearing not blinkered in any way. As if a world has opened up and colour,sound, and taste more profound.
There is still looking but it's amazing as it's unfolding. :)

Thanks for your help with this.

Love
Linda

Hey Linda,

Has it been clearly seen that there is no separate individual (“I/me”), and never has been?

There is still a lingering sense of an 'i' but continually looking at this the sense of 'i' ever being is disappearing. The sense of 'I' appeared to be stronger when 'negative' stuff happens. But when looking at this closer it is just thought, but the sense is felt stronger nevertheless. It's as if thought wants to keep this alive and bring 'i' back into a story by creating this attachment to what it says is negative.

And this “sense of I” will remain, it has always appeared, however there is simply a knowing that it is not so, that the ‘I’ that you thought you were doesn’t exist.

The sense of love, happiness, peace,contentment is felt more deeply and thought will say that this is easier to deal with because it makes 'me' feel good. There is no difference between the so called 'positive' or 'negative' its just thought. It's the thought that lingers about the negative. I will keep looking at this, as there is nothing to 'fear' this label 'fear' by thought is like a defence to the 'i', but it is being seen for what it is.

Life will still deliver pleasure and/or pain. It is just recognising that these are appearances that come and go. It is the expectation of outcomes that brings pleasure and pain which then creates the suffering.

Life is happening now and it's great to experience it in the now. I won't deny that there is still excitement at future thoughts or laughter at memory thoughts but it's wonderful to see them as just that- thoughts. Living in the what will be will be is calm' no controller, no doer, just live and experience the now.

Can you control whether or not excitement appears or for what preferences you have? It is only an appearing thought that says you shouldn’t have any emotions whatsoever, including excitement about a future of laughter at a memory. There is simply the knowing of what is, but that doesn’t change excitement or laughter appearing. :)

The world is being seen through different 'eyes' now as if 'im' walking taller, head up, looking at all that's appearing not blinkered in any way. As if a world has opened up and colour,sound, and taste more profound.
There is still looking but it's amazing as it's unfolding. :)

Lovely.

So, I am going to give you the final questions. Can you please answer the questions with some detail and give examples where asked.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
b) What makes things happen? How does it work?
c) What are you responsible for?
d) Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Love, Kay

Hi Kay

Sorry didn't post last night. Confused by the final questions. Not the actual questions but that you've asked them now.. I was ready to answer them yesterday, but there is strong doubt here this morning, thoughts saying I can't be at the gate, I don't feel any different? Life is happening and there is no I to control or do, but there is still a sense of there should be a difference and 'others' should see a difference.This can't be it? 'life' feels the same.

Love
Linda

Hello Linda,

Yes, they are the final questions. When I asked if you has been clearly seen that there is no separate self and never has been you answered that it had been. When I asked if you noticed a difference now to when we first started the exploration and to tell me about those differences, you said that yes, there are differences. You reported that the hustle and bustle of everyday life is dropping away and it is great to experience it in the now.

This tells me you think you have seen as you see a difference. The final questions will tell me if you have or haven't seen, it is like a litmus test. If seeing is not clear then we continue doing some more exploring. So I suggest you go back and read your entire thread. Redo the exercises and then come back and answer the last questions with honesty and we will take it from there.

Doubt and confusion will continue to appear for some time, even after having the realisation. Many years of conditioning aren't going to disappear overnight even with the realisation of there being no separate self. This exploration is just a beginning and not an ending. There will still be beliefs and patterns that are rooted in the idea of being a separate self that will need clearing as not everything gets rewritten in one big hit. The core belief of being a separate self is seen through, however, like a rug that is beginning to unravel, there are still many knots that need undoing. But if you know that the ‘conditioning’ is not something that you own, then it is easier to clear. Continuing to LOOK after the realisation is very much the key.

When I asked about your expectations at the beginning of the exploration you said you had none, that nothing would really change. Now you are wanting something to be different? There has never been a separate self so why would life or the character change? Change may happen and it may not happen...do you have any control over that? What changes is your perception about what is happening/appearing, and your perception about what you thought you were. If as a byproduct the character changes...then that is great. When you realised Santa Claus was a myth, did Christmas stop happening, did Santa Claus change or disappear? The character, just like life has continually changed, but just because the separate self has been seen through doesn't mean that other people will see a change, especially not in the beginning and you aren't going to become a saint with pefect behavior and oodles of love and light and life is not miraculously going to be filled with rainbows, butterflies and sunshine. Change happens if and when it happens.

Love, Kay

Hi Kay

Thanks for your reply, your time and patience.

Seeing the final questions I felt excitement and anxiety (strange sensation), but a sense of wow I'm there already, not disappointed that no Big Bang had happened, there was a sense of relief a thought of living in the now is calm. The saying go with the flow made perfect sense and brought a smile, well that's what thought said and 'I' felt ready to answer. But listening to 'others' and their own perceptions just overlayed experience with more thoughts of doubt. Thoughts whirled round my head all day today and doubt became stronger and I couldn't make sense of it all, couldn't get out of thought and into feeling sensation. 'I' was back as controlling.

At the beginning I honestly didn't expect anything from this and I honestly still don't, for some reason other people's perceptions overshadowed my own and I will definitely be taking a closer look at this, why did this happen? 'I' feel 'i' was definitely there or very close but for some reason thought took it back, maybe realising it was being seen for what it was.

I will go back over the entire thread and repeat every exercise again and reply to the questions.

Thanks again Kay for everything.

Love
Linda

Hey Linda,

Seeing the final questions I felt excitement and anxiety (strange sensation), but a sense of wow I'm there already, not disappointed that no Big Bang had happened, there was a sense of relief a thought of living in the now is calm.

Can you live anywhere else but NOW? There is no living IN the now, there is only ever now.

The saying go with the flow made perfect sense and brought a smile, well that's what thought said and 'I' felt ready to answer. But listening to 'others' and their own perceptions just overlayed experience with more thoughts of doubt. Thoughts whirled round my head all day today and doubt became stronger and I couldn't make sense of it all, couldn't get out of thought and into feeling sensation. 'I' was back as controlling.

Did you have a LOOK to see if you could actually find anyone who was in doubt or controlling?
Thoughts appeared about doubt, but did those thoughts point to AE or just pure thought fluff?
What is the AE of doubt?

"I am feeling doubtful" Is this feeling an actual sensation or is it just an idea/thought?


When you look, can you find a separate self?
Can you unsee what has been seen?

At the beginning I honestly didn't expect anything from this and I honestly still don't, for some reason other people's perceptions overshadowed my own and I will definitely be taking a closer look at this, why did this happen? 'I' feel 'i' was definitely there or very close but for some reason thought took it back, maybe realising it was being seen for what it was.

And what is the AE of 'others'?

Thought cannot do anything. Thought is not an entity, it does not think, it knows nothing. If thoughts were expressed via the tweeting of birds or an unknown language, how would you know what they meant? What meaning is given to thoughts are only just thoughts about thoughts.

I will go back over the entire thread and repeat every exercise again and reply to the questions.

Lovely, I look forward to your responses to the above questions as well.

Love, Kay

Did you have a LOOK to see if you could actually find anyone who was in doubt or controlling?
Thoughts appeared about doubt, but did those thoughts point to AE or just pure thought fluff?
What is the AE of doubt?

Looked at this again and again as AE of sensation that thought labelled doubt over and over.
No AE experience of doubt just AE of sensation that thought labels doubt-just pure thought fluff.

"I am feeling doubtful" Is this feeling an actual sensation or is it just an idea/thought?

This is just thought, there is AE of sensation but simply thought that labels and carries on its 'doubtful' story.

When you look, can you find a separate self?

No, looking there is no separate self. There is a lingering sense of an 'i' but seeing through these thoughts is continuing.

[quote{Can you unsee what has been seen?[/quote]
No, those thoughts of doubt have been seen for what they were- stories!
There is still looking at thoughts about that lingering sense of a separate 'i', but no definite, separate 'i' is found.

And what is the AE of 'others'?

No actual experience of others. Thoughts saying other people don't see this and other people don't see a difference. Just thought again and again.
As the sense of 'i' lingers so does the sense of 'others' as separate people. 'They' appear in life as colour, sound, sensation but the sense of 'they' being separate is still lingering. The lingering sense of 'others' is felt stronger amongst those that thought says are family and friends. Walking into work and AE of colour that thought labels 'workmen' or 'traffic warden', sounds heard that thought labels ' 'hello' or 'good morning'. But thought doesn't label these 'people' as friends or family and it's this that is still giving rise to thoughts of confusion about others.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

There is still a lingering sense of an 'i' but continually looking at this the sense of 'i' ever being is disappearing. The sense of 'I' as an individual form or shape is disappearing as colour and sensation is experienced and thought ignored.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of separate self starts with the limit that 'I' puts on experience and takes ownership of all that is happening in life. 'I' believes it has existed for a long time and believes that It controls, it decides, it feels, it see, it tastes, it hears, 'I' Linda is the experiencer - it made that choice, it felt the sensation because 'i' feel that way because I made the wrong/right decisions. The separate I wants to own all this and take credit for what is going on or what has happened or what will happen. It limits experience to a body and wants 'me' to stay within this tiny space, surrounded by a huge world that is experienced through 'i', separate from everything.
The reality is there is no separate I. Experiencing now is simply happening. Thoughts will tell a story of what is being experienced but beyond thought it's just experiencing. Thoughts will tell stories of past and future for 'Linda' but beyond these thoughts is experiencing what is happening now.
Thoughts of doubt were seen through as an attempt to stay in control, which in itself is just a thought. AE of thought will continue its seeing that thought knows nothing of experiencing but is great story teller and labeller. AE of whatever is happening is all that is known. Thought is known,it's the content of the thoughts that are not known and seen for what they are.

3) How does it feel to see this?

The example of the rug is brilliant., just the beginning and knots to untie. There is a sense of relief that nothing changes, life is happening as it always has, it's the seeing and experiencing that's different- thought again of a past!

What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

Looking at differences is seen as past thoughts, the attachment to the 'i' as before still lingering as part of thought, but seeing thought clearer for its stories.
The events of the past few days, my daughter in hospital, the fear she says she felt for her operation, the taking care of my granddaughter, the organising of work and child care all happened -memory thoughts!
Writing this is happening now, sensation of warm, thoughts say I'm sat on the sofa in a warm living room.
My daughter lay on the sofa watching TV, the sensation thought says is love, thought says is relief she is ok. There is still loving and deep feelings for my daughter but no lingering worrying, no control over what's happening. Seeing thoughts for what they are mean no sense of stressing of 'what ifs' and no thoughts to linger on relief that it is over and all is ok. These thoughts appear but don't stay. Just seeing her lay on the sofa watching TV and a sensation that thought labels love.
Thought will say there is excitement for a coming holiday and there is sensation but it's thought that labels it excitement and 'smiling' happens and thought will tell its story of a great time ahead.
Experiencing sensation will happen but it is seen that it's thought that labels sensation. There is no control over sensation, thoughts will appear and no I to prefer one thought over another, it's just simply seeing/experiencing life and seeing thoughts as the labeller and story teller. Life is happening regardless of what thought says. Its seeing through the 'I' and experiencing now.
Just like that rug there is a lot to unravel but looking is clearer.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Looking at the sensation that thought labelled doubt over the final questions.
This sensation that thought labelled doubt, thought said was strong, that thought said was to fast to have seen, thought said others haven't noticed a difference.
Looking at these thoughts it was seen that it's thought saying it wants the control of the 'i', of the life, of all that's experienced. Ignoring thoughts can appear difficult but keep looking and thought was seen through!
AE of thought is happening but seeing its stories as just that - stories.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.

Thoughts! No decider, no controller or chooser. Thoughts will say I decided, I intend, I had a choice but these are just further thoughts.
Life is simply happening, experiencing is simply happening.

b) What makes things happen? How does it work?

Life is happening, experiencing is happening, thought is happening but no one and nothing makes things happen or work.

c) What are you responsible for?

Nothing. No 'i' to be responsible.
There is experiencing colour, sensation, taste, sound and thought but 'I'm' not responsible for it.

d) Give examples from experience.

AE sensation, thought says lay in bed, further thought says it was cold in work today that's why it took so long to get warm.
'I' was not responsible for feeling cold, I did not decide to be cold. Thought labelled sensation as cold and it was unpleasant as it labels sensation now as warm and being more pleasant, but no I was responsible for feeling the sensation 'warm' or 'getting warmer'. Thoughts tells its story of getting into bed to feel warm.
'I' cannot be responsible for anything. It's just thoughts that say 'i' am.



6) Anything to add?

Nothing to add but thanks for your continuing guiding and pointing 'me' through this and for your patience. :)

Love
Linda

Hello Linda,

Giving the final questions does not automatically mean that the exploration has ended. It is a litmus test that helps me to see where you actually are. It seems that there is still a lot of doubt going on, so I think we will continue to explore the idea of there being a separate self.

Did you reread your entire thread?

What is the AE of doubt?

Looked at this again and again as AE of sensation that thought labelled doubt over and over.
No AE experience of doubt just AE of sensation that thought labels doubt-just pure thought fluff.

Yes, however, if there is still lingering doubt, then even though you say it is pure thought fluff, it doesn’t really deal with the doubt.

Are you the author of doubting thoughts or of belief thoughts?
What belief/thought is appearing that is causing the doubt? Let me know so that we can Investigate it together.

Remember the ‘blahblahblah’? For every thought that comes up, and to determine whether it is referring to actual experience or whether it is pure fantasy, replace the thought with “blahblahblah” and check whether what it was referring to remains

When you look, can you find a separate self?

No, looking there is no separate self. There is a lingering sense of an 'i' but seeing through these thoughts is continuing.

I would like you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it.

Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire…

Does the sense of self have a location?
Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

3) How does it feel to see this?

The example of the rug is brilliant., just the beginning and knots to untie. There is a sense of relief that nothing changes, life is happening as it always has, it's the seeing and experiencing that's different- thought again of a past!

Can you explain what you mean when you say: “it's the seeing and experiencing that's different- thought again of a past!”

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Looking at the sensation that thought labelled doubt over the final questions.
This sensation that thought labelled doubt, thought said was strong, that thought said was to fast to have seen, thought said others haven't noticed a difference.
Looking at these thoughts it was seen that it's thought saying it wants the control of the 'i', of the life, of all that's experienced. Ignoring thoughts can appear difficult but keep looking and thought was seen through!
AE of thought is happening but seeing its stories as just that - stories.

Telling yourself that it is only a story is not the same as actually seeing/realising that it is a story...there is a difference. If telling yourself something over and over worked, then we wouldn't need come to LU, we could just do affirmations! Somewhere in this you are ignoring the emotions ie sensations and instead of being with them and seeing them for what the actually are as opposed to what thought says they are you are telling yourself it is just a story. This doesn't work.

The point of LOOKING is not to get rid of anything, it is not to get rid of the sensations or thoughts etc, but to see what IS, and when seeing what IS, (ie AE) then everything can be left as it is.

Love, Kay

Hi Kay

Thanks for continuing with this.

Are you the author of doubting thoughts or of belief thoughts?

No I am not the author of these thoughts. Thoughts just appear.

What belief/thought is appearing that is causing the doubt? Let me know so that we can Investigate it together.

Different thoughts appear that will refer to I - I'm not understanding what I'm looking at, or this is nonsense I've been myself and living my life.
AE of thought but it is further thought that says this. Thoughts happen all the time and will point to AE of colour for example, it's further thought that then labels the colour, and goes on to give a story about an object being seen. I see this clearly.
In the doubtful thoughts, thought will appear and further thought will label or tell a story that connects to an 'i' doubting itself. I see this clearly.
Sensation is felt in the stomach, thought labels as butterflies, feeling anxious about this. When thoughts are changed to blah blah the sensation is still felt in the stomach area but with the thought of 'i' there is nothing to prolong this story so sensation is just felt and passes.
Without thought the doubtful/anxious sensation would have no label as doubtful/anxious sensation. Sensation is just felt, thought doesn't change the AE of sensation, it merely labels it.

Does the sense of self have a location?

No I can't point or find a location for the sense of self.

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

No the sense of self has no shape or size. Eyes closed and thought will appear and thought will label the image as 'I'.

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

No the sense of self doesn't communicate anything.

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

No the sense of self doesn't. Thoughts will say I'm this or I'm that, but without locating this self of sense nothing can be attributed to it other than what appears in thought.

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

Sense of self appears in thought. If I try and look for this sense of self I can only find thought, an image that is labelled as 'me'. No actual sense of self.

Can you explain what you mean when you say: “it's the seeing and experiencing that's different- thought again of a past!”

It's how I see things/ experience things now compared to before I started LU. But this in itself is thought of a past, but the thought is being experienced now.


Love
Linda

Hey Linda,

Thanks for continuing with this.

Of course we continue! We continue until you have seen!

Are you the author of doubting thoughts or of belief thoughts?

No I am not the author of these thoughts. Thoughts just appear.

So when doubtful thoughts appear, check:-

Did you make a particular thought appear?
Did you want that thought to appear in the first place?
Did you choose for that thought to appear?
Do you have ANYTHING to do with any thoughts?

What belief/thought is appearing that is causing the doubt? Let me know so that we can Investigate it together.

Different thoughts appear that will refer to I - I'm not understanding what I'm looking at, or this is nonsense I've been myself and living my life.

Do thoughts actually doubt? Do thoughts actually try to understand something? Do thoughts think that they know something and is having a hard time digesting or understanding something? Or are thoughts simply repeating their story, with variations about something trying to figure things out?


Thoughts do seem to have a life of their own, don't they? I mean, if there were actually a separate self somewhere, a real entity, 'me', surely that self would have it organised to think only positive, nice and truthful thoughts…thoughts that only pointed to what is!

The funny thing is, a thought appears wanting the identification with an “I/self” to stop as proof that you have 100% clearly seen that there is no self....right? But that idea/thought is just another thought bubble and is seen in utter clarity.

Even the idea that something is identifying with thought about being able to choose, decide, control is just an idea. What exactly is it that is identifying with thoughts? Can you find ANYTHING that can identify with thought?

Only thought says that something is identifying as/with anything and that there is something that is/can control, choose, decide or do. A thought knows nothing and the realisation is not a thought, it is an actual realisation…an aha moment and has nothing to do with thoughts or thinking.

AE of thought but it is further thought that says this. Thoughts happen all the time and will point to AE of colour for example, it's further thought that then labels the colour, and goes on to give a story about an object being seen. I see this clearly.

Here are signposts that points to Moscow, London, Berlin etc. All of these signposts are labels/thoughts that seemingly point to something (just like thought seemingly points to something). Do the signposts have any idea what they are pointing to? Does thought?

In the doubtful thoughts, thought will appear and further thought will label or tell a story that connects to an 'i' doubting itself. I see this clearly.

Is thinking anything other than a succession of thoughts, linked by another thought?

Let’s take a look at what thought might say.

Sensation arising labelled ‘butterflies’, ‘anxiety’.

Thought 1: I’m feeling anxious

Thought 2: I’m feeling anxious because I'm not understanding what I'm looking at! This is nonsense, I've been myself and living my life.

Thought 3: If this stuff is true, then why are thoughts saying that colour is an object. That should stop because there are no objects, there is only colour and since I see that clearly, then why would thought continue to appear labelling objects? That must mean that I am not really understanding and seeing clearly at all.

Thought 4: Omg, I am so confused. I really don’t see or understand anything…

Thought 27: Wow! I understand now! I clearly see that I am not a character! It is pretty clear!"

Thought 28: I will never doubt again, I see it so clearly now and I feel such a relief.

Thought 29: I wonder what I will cook for dinner

Thought 35: Don't be stupid, this is nonsense! Who am I trying to kid! Obviously I am inside this body! I’m not understanding, because I have been me for x amount of years and living life.

Now when we look at this, do we find thought 35 has any knowledge of any of the other thoughts, let alone them all? Is the first thought aware of something which the other thoughts somehow don’t see? It seems that way, but when we look closely, what is found?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

Sense of self appears in thought. If I try and look for this sense of self I can only find thought, an image that is labelled as 'me'. No actual sense of self.

Great! This ‘sense of self’ has always appeared….yes? There have never been a separate self, so how should it now look, in what way should it be different?

Seeing through the illusion of “I” doesn’t mean you will lose the “I” and with it your whole identity, including the idea of a 'sense of self'. The “I” doesn’t exist, not even now as you are reading these lines.

The questions is….is there a you to have or not to have a self?

Can you explain what you mean when you say: “it's the seeing and experiencing that's different- thought again of a past!”

It's how I see things/ experience things now compared to before I started LU. But this in itself is thought of a past, but the thought is being experienced now.

Yes, in expressing AE that is correct. However, for the sake of clarity and the purpose of seeing where you are at with all of this, what now is different to when you started with this exploration?

Love, Kay

Hi Kay

I had a bit of a aha moment. Didn't let up on this today and it became clearer. Your pointing is clear, I hope I've explained it well.

Do thoughts actually doubt? Do thoughts actually try to understand something? Do thoughts think that they know something and is having a hard time digesting or understanding something? Or are thoughts simply repeating their story, with variations about something trying to figure things out?

No thoughts don't doubt or try and understand, they know nothing,
The thoughts repeat the story and vary it. I've been looking at thought throughout the day and ignoring them and seeing if they changed anything that was seen, heard, felt or changed any emotion.
I was lay in the bath tonight and felt the sensation of the water, thought would says it's warm, but I didn't need the thought to say I was feeling this. If thought was ignored the sensation was still felt.
Sounds of laughter were heard from another room but I didn't need thought to hear these sounds, thought would say it's the kids laughing. A smile appeared but thought didn't do this, smiling just happened from hearing the familiar sound that thought labelled laughter. I ignored the thought that labelled it laughter but the sound was still heard and smiling still happened.

Even the idea that something is identifying with thought about being able to choose, decide, control is just an idea. What exactly is it that is identifying with thoughts? Can you find ANYTHING that can identify with thought?

I can't find anything that is identifying with thought. When looking it's just further thoughts that appear.

Here are signposts that points to Moscow, London, Berlin etc. All of these signposts are labels/thoughts that seemingly point to something (just like thought seemingly points to something). Do the signposts have any idea what they are pointing to? Does thought?

No the signposts don't have any idea what they are pointing to. Just like thought the signpost appear as labels, words, image and like the signpost thought knows nothing at what it points to.

Is thinking anything other than a succession of thoughts, linked by another thought?

No Thinking is just that. a succession of thoughts, they appear to link but thought varies in what is thought.

Now when we look at this, do we find thought 35 has any knowledge of any of the other thoughts, let alone them all? Is the first thought aware of something which the other thoughts somehow don’t see? It seems that way, but when we look closely, what is found?

Thoughts do not have any knowledge of any other thought. Thought will appear about anything, thought isnt aware of other thoughts. Thoughts appear to have knowledge with the same 'theme' but the storyline will vary and sometimes have no connection with the first thought.

Great! This ‘sense of self’ has always appeared….yes? There have never been a separate self, so how should it now look, in what way should it be different?

The sense of self will not be different or will change but what is different is seeing the thought of the sense of self for what it is, just thought. If I ignore the thought of sense of self, 'i' dont disappear I don't suddenly stop experiencing sound, sensation etc.

The questions is….is there a you to have or not to have a self?

I am aware of the thought of the sense of self but not aware as a separate entity or of a separate entity. I am aware of sensation, taste etc, knowing of these but not as an 'i' or 'Linda'. There is a 'me' but not as separate entity just as an awareness or knowingness.


Love
Linda

Hello Linda,

Take your time doing the exercises I have given. If you need a couple or more days..that is AOK! :)

I had a bit of a aha moment. Didn't let up on this today and it became clearer. Your pointing is clear, I hope I've explained it well.

Yes, you have explained it wonderfully! I can see your aha moment in your first response…lovely!

Do thoughts actually doubt? Do thoughts actually try to understand something? Do thoughts think that they know something and is having a hard time digesting or understanding something? Or are thoughts simply repeating their story, with variations about something trying to figure things out?

No thoughts don't doubt or try and understand, they know nothing,
The thoughts repeat the story and vary it. I've been looking at thought throughout the day and ignoring them and seeing if they changed anything that was seen, heard, felt or changed any emotion.
I was lay in the bath tonight and felt the sensation of the water, thought would says it's warm, but I didn't need the thought to say I was feeling this. If thought was ignored the sensation was still felt.
Sounds of laughter were heard from another room but I didn't need thought to hear these sounds, thought would say it's the kids laughing. A smile appeared but thought didn't do this, smiling just happened from hearing the familiar sound that thought labelled laughter. I ignored the thought that labelled it laughter but the sound was still heard and smiling still happened.

This is wonderful Linda! Yes, you don’t need thought to tell you what you are aware of! If thoughts were to disappear forever, you would still be aware of experience labelled ‘sound’, and experience labelled as ‘colour’, ‘sensation’, ‘taste’, ‘smell’. And thought won’t disappear but you don’t need a thought to tell you that you are aware of experience labelled ‘thought’ when they appear.

So this comes back to see if you can find a dividing line between what is heard, say from the sound itself. Where does hearing end and sound begin.

For this exercise you will need to sit yourself near a clock that has an audible second hand. If you don’t have a ticking clock, then here is a link to a clock on Youtube. Do this exercise several times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L21br2DSCSg


Allow your eyes to close gently.

Listen to the sound. “Tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock”

Focus on the tick tock. Attune to the sound itself. IGNORE any explanatory thoughts about what must be creating the sound.

Try to find the clock.

1. Going just by the tick tock sound, do you find a clock present?
2. Is there any direct/actual experience of a clock in the sound?
3. Does the sound come self-labelled as originating from the clock?
4. Do you find a clock hidden in the sound?
5. Do you find a clock beyond the sound?
6. In your direct/actual experience of the sound, do you find any evidence that the sound is caused by a clock?
Let me know what you find

Allow your eyes to open.

Were you able to establish that in your direct/actual experience of the tick tock sound, that there was a clock?

Were you able to find a division between hearing and sound?
Were you able to establish where hearing ended and sound begin, or was there just pure experience labelled as sound?

For a sound to be ‘known’ then there must be a ‘knowing’ (experience) of sound! Can a dividing line be found between the ‘knowing’ (experience) of the sound and the sound (known) itself? Or is there only ‘knowingknown’?

Even the idea that something is identifying with thought about being able to choose, decide, control is just an idea. What exactly is it that is identifying with thoughts? Can you find ANYTHING that can identify with thought?

I can't find anything that is identifying with thought. When looking it's just further thoughts that appear.

Great! Yes, it is only an appearing thought that suggests that there is someone who can identify with something. How can a non-existent entity identify with anything!
Can thought, colour, sound, smell, taste or sensation identify with anything?

Here are signposts that points to Moscow, London, Berlin etc. All of these signposts are labels/thoughts that seemingly point to something (just like thought seemingly points to something). Do the signposts have any idea what they are pointing to? Does thought?

No the signposts don't have any idea what they are pointing to. Just like thought the signpost appear as labels, words, image and like the signpost thought knows nothing at what it points to.

Yep! Thoughts are not aware…they know nothing. They never know what they are pointing to. You (not Linda) are aware of thought and all the stories etc they point to.

Is "knowing" (experience/awareness), separate from what is “known", or are they one and the same?

Great! This ‘sense of self’ has always appeared….yes? There have never been a separate self, so how should it now look, in what way should it be different?

The sense of self will not be different or will change but what is different is seeing the thought of the sense of self for what it is, just thought. If I ignore the thought of sense of self, 'i' dont disappear I don't suddenly stop experiencing sound, sensation etc.

Yes, yes, yes…exactly! :)

The questions is….is there a you to have or not to have a self?

I am aware of the thought of the sense of self but not aware as a separate entity or of a separate entity. I am aware of sensation, taste etc, knowing of these but not as an 'i' or 'Linda'. There is a 'me' but not as separate entity just as an awareness or knowingness.

Lovely…yes!

Let’s continue on further with looking at this ‘sense of self’, just to continue with deepening the seeing of it.

It is generally believed that thoughts are coming from the head somewhere around the forehead. When we try to trace back the origin of a thought, it is often believed that it's coming from the forehead, because the attention automatically goes to the sensation of the forehead. Investigate this carefully as often as you can throughout the day.

Close the eyes and focus on the area labelled as the ‘forehead’ and become aware of the sensation. When ‘thinking’ appears, the sensation seems to be more prevalent.

What is the forehead in the actual experience?
A sensation + a mental image (of a forehead), right?

So, can a thought come from a sensation?
Can a thought come from a mental image?

Have a very deep look here... the forehead is one of the 'residence' of the SENSE of self. Or rather say, the sensation that is labelled as forehead is believed to be one of the location of the sense of self.

Furthermore, it's also believed that both 'visual sight' and 'mental images' are coming from the eyes, because when it's investigated the attention automatically goes to the sensation 'of the eyes', and at the same time the image 'of the eyes' appear with it.

So another SENSE of self is linked to the sensation 'of the eyes'.

Close the eyes and just focus on the eye are and become aware of the sensations.

What are the eyes in the actual experience?
A sensation + a mental image, right?

Can sight come from a sensation?
Can sight come from an image (of the eyes)?

Can a 'mental image' come from a sensation?
Can a 'mental image' come from another mental image (of the eyes)?

Love, Kay

Hi Kay

I took the extra time with this, and changed a few of the answers as I looked again over a few days.
Hope it is explained clearly.

Try to find the clock.

1. Going just by the tick tock sound, do you find a clock present?
2. Is there any direct/actual experience of a clock in the sound?
3. Does the sound come self-labelled as originating from the clock?
4. Do you find a clock hidden in the sound?
5. Do you find a clock beyond the sound?
6. In your direct/actual experience of the sound, do you find any evidence that the sound is caused by a clock?
Let me know what you find

1. No couldn't find clock in the present. AE sound that thought says was tick tick and further labelled as clock.
2. No the AE is simply sound
3. No, sound does not label itself it is thought that labels tick tock and clock.
4. No for something to be hidden it would have to be separate from something. The experience is sound and thought labels tick tock if a clock.
5. Again no, the AE is sound there is no AE of clock, so cannot find 'clock' beyond the sound, just thought of a clock.
6. No the AE of sound, then the AE of thought which then goes on and labels it clock ticking. Can only experience sound but then experience thought that labels the sound. It's like the scales - you focus on sound and it is all that is experienced and this side of the scale gets heavier when the focus is switched to experiencing thought and then further thought this side of the scale gets heavier you cannot focus on them both to balance the scales
Thought is very quick to jump in and label but the AE of sound is only experienced in the present, then the AE of thought was experienced which labelled, then AE sound and so on, but whether it was sound in the present or thought it the present that was all that was experienced in the present.

Were you able to establish that in your direct/actual experience of the tick tock sound, that there was a clock?

No. There is AE of sound and thought of clock. Thought would say it's a familiar sound and is only related to clock, but no actual clock .

Were you able to find a division between hearing and sound?
Were you able to establish where hearing ended and sound begin, or was there just pure experience labelled as sound?

Could not find a division, it is just pure experience labelled as sound.

For a sound to be ‘known’ then there must be a ‘knowing’ (experience) of sound! Can a dividing line be found between the ‘knowing’ (experience) of the sound and the sound (known) itself? Or is there only ‘knowingknown’?

There is only knowingknown. Without sound (known) there is no experience (knowing) of sound. Like the tree falling in the forest. Unless it's in the present AE it is not known.

Can thought, colour, sound, smell, taste or sensation identify with anything?

No they cannot. Sound cannot identify with the smell of breakfast being made, thought will label sound as being bacon sizzling and breakfast being made but sound doesn't identify with the smell that thought labels as bacon being cooked. This is such for all experience. Thought is quick to jump in and label so it appears they all identify with each other but this is not true.

Is "knowing" (experience/awareness), separate from what is “known", or are they one and the same?

They are one and the same, knowingknown. There is no experience of Sound unless there is experiencing of sound.

What is the forehead in the actual experience?
A sensation + a mental image (of a forehead), right?

To say there is a forehead would suggest 'body', ' boundary', 'division'. Thoughts are experienced through me not the 'forehead of Linda'. No forehead is found in AE.

So, can a thought come from a sensation?
Can a thought come from a mental image?

A thought cannot come from sensation or a mental image. Mental image is simply further thought, and sensation is simply sensation, there is no connection.
There can be AE of thought but it is further thought that labels it a mental image of such a thing and thought will label a sensation as such a thing.

What are the eyes in the actual experience?
A sensation + a mental image, right?

Again 'Eyes' would suggest a boundary, division, a head. There is no AE of eyes.

Can sight come from a sensation?
Can sight come from an image (of the eyes)?

No sight cannot come from a sensation. Sight cannot come from an image of the eyes.
There is no experience of eyes, thought labels eyes and colour is seen through eyes whether thought says eyes are opened or closed. The AE is colour but not seen through eyes just experienced through me not 'Linda's eyes'.

Can a 'mental image' come from a sensation?
Can a 'mental image' come from another mental image (of the eyes)?

No mental image cannot come from sensation and cannot come from another mental image (of the eyes)
There is no AE of mental image, there is thought that labels mental image as such a thing and there is thought that further labels mental image as coming from eyes. There is AE of sensation but this has no link with the thought of mental image or with thought that says is seen through the eyes.

The word sight itself suggests that there is something separate to see with. There is just seeing no seer, seeing is experiencing colour through me not the 'sight of Linda'

Love
Linda

Hey Linda,

I took the extra time with this, and changed a few of the answers as I looked again over a few days.
Hope it is explained clearly.

I am glad you took the extra time to LOOK, to make sure you are seeing to what is being pointed at. If LOOKING is happening, then the explanations will be clear :)

Were you able to find a division between hearing and sound?
Were you able to establish where hearing ended and sound begin, or was there just pure experience labelled as sound?

Could not find a division, it is just pure experience labelled as sound.

Lovely, yes, it is just experience labelled as sound.
Sometimes you hear a song on the radio on your way to work or while you are making breakfast etc, and that song can stay with you all day. The song seems to play over and over again. All the intricate details are there. All the lyrics, all the notes in the guitar solo are as clear as when it was playing out of the car speakers. But really there is no music playing - no one singing, and no guitarist. It's just thought about sound.

So can you find anyone/anything that is separate to experience? Is there a you and experience?

What is the forehead in the actual experience?
A sensation + a mental image (of a forehead), right?

To say there is a forehead would suggest 'body', ' boundary', 'division'. Thoughts are experienced through me not the 'forehead of Linda'. No forehead is found in AE.

Where is this “me” that thought are experienced through? That points to a you and experience.
Where does thought stop and the knowing of it begin?

Can a 'mental image' come from a sensation?
Can a 'mental image' come from another mental image (of the eyes)?

No mental image cannot come from sensation and cannot come from another mental image (of the eyes)

There is no AE of mental image, there is thought that labels mental image as such a thing and there is thought that further labels mental image as coming from eyes. There is AE of sensation but this has no link with the thought of mental image or with thought that says is seen through the eyes.

Images that thought calls ‘mental images’ do appear. They cannot be denied, they are an appearance that arises and subsides. When you picture a cup ‘in the mind’ is that not an appearing image? Let’s take a further look at this.

There are two types of thoughts:
(1) Thoughts with words “Here is cup”
(2) Visual mental images of a ‘cup’

So I invite you to do this exercise:
Think of a cup. Get a very clear picture in your mind. See clearly the size, shape, colour and volume of the cup. Notice whether it is decorated or plain. Notice whether it has a handle. Notice whether it is heavy or fragile. Do you have a clear picture in mind?

Now, can you physically grasp that image of a cup?
Can you pour tea into it?
Can you drink from it?

Is there a ‘real’ cup or just an image of a cup?
Is there an appearing mental image?
Is the content of the mental image (the cup) ‘real’?

The thoughts and mental images are real (actual experience) only as arising thoughts and mental images, their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what are they about (like the cup) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies. Can you see this?

Over the course of the next day or so, I'd like you to notice the content of thoughts. Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about) is REALLY happening, or the content is just pure imagination. Let me know how it goes.

The word sight itself suggests that there is something separate to see with. There is just seeing no seer, seeing is experiencing colour through me not the 'sight of Linda'

What exactly is it that is experiencing colour ‘through’ them?

With eyes closed, there is the experience of 'blackness'. There may a bright light, a red glow, sparkly bits or cloudy flecks appearing and disappearing - It really doesn't matter about the specifics. We are just noticing ‘blackness’.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness'?
2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?
3) Can what is seeing the blackness be found?
4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is ‘seeing’ the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?
What do you find?


So, with the forehead and eyes exercise, did you find a separate self anywhere? And even with that LOOKING and seeing that all that is happening is that a 'mental' image and thought are appearing, there is still an idea thoughts are coming from a head and that seeing is coming from eyes, and thought still appears saying “but I feel I am a “me’” BUT can a “me” be found?

Can a separate self be found at all or is there just thoughts about a me?

Love, Kay

Hi Kay

Again, thanks for your time and patience.

So can you find anyone/anything that is separate to experience? Is there a you and experience?

No I can't find anyone or anything that is separate to experience. There is experiencingexperience but nothing separate can be found as an experiencer.

Where is this “me” that thought are experienced through? That points to a you and experience.
Where does thought stop and the knowing of it begin?

I say me as a way to explain, not as a separate entity or separate self but just as awareness or knowingness of thought.
There is no beginning or end to thought it's just experiencing thought as it is appearing-experiencingexperience, knowingknown. There is no beginning or end to thought it's just experiencing thought as it is appearing now. Difficult to explain without referring to now as this refers to time and suggests a beginning and an end but reality is there isn't.

The thoughts and mental images are real (actual experience) only as arising thoughts and mental images, their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what are they about (like the cup) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies. Can you see this?

Ah! Yes I see this, it appeared at first that mental images were not AE-thought is quick to label these mental images so they appear as a further thought not the AE experience of thought. Mental image is thought just as thought is thought. It's the content of the mental image/thought that are further thought, thought fluff.

Over the course of the next day or so, I'd like you to notice the content of thoughts. Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about) is REALLY happening, or the content is just pure imagination. Let me know how it goes.

Mental image of a red dress.
Mental image is real as far as AE of mental image, red dress is pure fantasy, not real. No dress to try on or fabric to feel.

Thought of a cold chair as I sat down. Thought wasn't needed in experiencing sensation.

Thought of a busy Monday ahead, pure fantasy. AE of thought but 'busy Monday ahead' pure imagination.

I'll keep looking at this over another day or so.

What exactly is it that is experiencing colour ‘through’ them?

Nothing can be found as experiencing colour. AE of sensation, thought then says that the sensation is 'eyes' or a mental image of eyes and if looking in a mirror it's colour that is seen and thought will say 'there are the eyes that see' but if ignoring thought it's AE of sensation.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness'?
2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?
3) Can what is seeing the blackness be found?
4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is ‘seeing’ the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?
What do you find?

1. Yes I can confirm that blackness is experienced, but this is still colour so is AE of colour.
2. Nothing else in seeing just blackness.
3. No cannot find what is seeing blackness. There is sensation that thought labels tingling but that's it.
4. There is just blackness to be found. There are mental image/ thoughts that appear to suggest 'eyes' 'i' 'me' but blah blah blah and it's simply blackness that's appearing.

So, with the forehead and eyes exercise, did you find a separate self anywhere? And even with that LOOKING and seeing that all that is happening is that a 'mental' image and thought are appearing, there is still an idea thoughts are coming from a head and that seeing is coming from eyes, and thought still appears saying “but I feel I am a “me’” BUT can a “me” be found?

Couldn't find a separate self. Couldn't find eyes or forehead, there is still thoughts that appear to suggest me, eyes, forehead, hands, feet etc but ignoring thought, simply experiencingexperience.
Thought says my eyes are aching, but it's simply experiencing sensation now, thought labels sensation as aching and even locating the sensation to 'eyes' and thought also says eyes have been aching for a while! But there is no AE of the content of any of this thought just experiencing sensation.

Can a separate self be found at all or is there just thoughts about a me?

There is no separate self to be found at all, there are thoughts and mental images about 'me' but no AE of 'me'
Seeing the 'head' and 'body' as a thought labelled container of all experiencing but ignore this thought-blah blah blah and it's simply experiencing. There is thought that labels 'body' ' head' 'Linda' and an idea that eyes are located in my head and an idea that thoughts come from a forehead but this is not reality. What is knowingknown is reality and experiencingexperience is reality not idea or thought of head or body, eyes or forehead.

Love
Linda