To be or not to be

[gondwana]

Ok, confusion = good, recognition = good.

Now, WHAT is doing the reading and typing RIGHT NOW, as this message is read and replied to on your screen?

Is there a deer seeing the screen?
Is there a reader reading the text?
Is there a thinker considering the content?
Is there a doer typing a response?

LOOK!

LOOK in the present moment NOW, drop all past knowledge and teachings, assume they are wrong.

[Katiebrown54]

all past information has been put aside to see if a seer, reader, thinker, typer is present.
When thought about what is happening is attached to these actions, there seems like there is someone inside the body speaking to itself about what is being actioned.
When these activities continue without thought, the seeming presence of an entity disappears. Thought gives the impression there is a self inside the body. Since thought is not a fixture and is changeable, thoughts absence shines light on a no self also.

[gondwana]

Great!

And how does it feel now to see this?

[Katiebrown54]

No differently actually ??

[gondwana]

Then that suggests you have not really looked, it is just an intellectual understanding again.

Can I suggest you go back to the start of our conversation, re-read the whole thing, and report back with the points where intellectual thought, instead of looking, occurred.

Where in our conversation did you THINK an answer and not LOOK?

We need to find the holes and patch them.

[Katiebrown54]

It's been difficult to answer your last set of questions Tim - there has been some confusion with regards to the last message.
Rereading of the transcript did not identify holes. The responses to your questions were arrived at through direct experience?

Why is there a presumption that certain 'feelings' should arise from a particular experience and if absent, or 'if no different, 'presume intellectualisation has occurred?
Relief, as noted in an earlier message, was a feeling which arose from seeing...but this was it?
Thank you for your deeper inquiry. Appreciate and definitely guided by your pick ups.

Regards Katiebrown

[gondwana]

I am trying to probe the dark places most people do not like to look, to find where ‘you’ are stuck.

You frequently report seeing the realisations of the pointing instructions, yet then report after that nothing has really changed.

I can only go on the information you report back. If you are satisfied with the realisations, we can move to the final questions and close the conversation.

Otherwise, where do you think things may be stuck?

[Katiebrown54]

Your question of where may there be feelings of being stuck has caused some reflection?

Not sure the answer but perhaps it will present itself as the response is explored further.

Yes there has been the experience of seeing without much response. It feels a little like anti climax in view of your questions ... how do you feel now after realisation?

Recognising the absence of self has an empty feeling if anything? Is it because there hasn’t been true awakening and then what is true awakening anyway?

At the same time, can’t say there are feelings of ‘satisfaction’ as a result? Can we please stay with your form of inquiry to test the ‘truth’ of this seeing some more?

To add, the timing of this inquiry runs parallel to feelings of ‘dark night’ relating to fear based responses to a family members own lack of coping skills. Questions such as who or what fears doesn’t seem to assist. A realisation ‘Fear is just happening’ doesn’t mellow the fear nor should it on the other hand ...it just complicates the soup full of emotions arising currently which may explain the ‘no difference ‘ in feelings to your earlier question?

Perhaps this is where ‘stuck’ resides?

[gondwana]

Can we please stay with your form of inquiry to test the ‘truth’ of this seeing some more?

Absolutely! Of course

Recognising the absence of self has an empty feeling if anything? Is it because there hasn’t been true awakening and then what is true awakening anyway?

Firstly, there is an expectation here which must be dropped.

At Liberation Unleashed, we do NOT offer “awakening”. We simply offer pointers to see that there is no self.

Arguably, seeing there is no self may be the underpinning of most all reported “awakening” experiences. But, “awakening” is simply too broad and poorly-defined of a term to be a reasonable objective from any discussion like this, is it not?

How do you know your idea of “awakening” would be the same as mine?

Consider, that “awakening” is just a concept.
A label for something undefined.
It is from the realm of thoughts, not actual experience.
Consider, that your own INTERNAL idea (thought) of what the concept “awakening” actually means, will not be fully defined, and will most likely be *nothing* like the actual experience you will eventually have.
Consider, that your expectations of achieving “awakening” are very likely to block seeing the reality of no-self, thereby blocking the very thing you in fact seek.
Consider, that since there is no “self”, there is also no “seeker”, so in fact WHAT could even have an awakening at all?
Consider, that by believing there IS an entity to BECOME awakened at all, you are merely perpetuating the belief in a self — thereby blocking the very underpinning of any “awakening” from getting started.
The fact that you mention “awakening” at all, shows that you still believe there IS a self to BE awakened.
Does this sound familiar?
Like a contradiction perhaps, which holds you locked in the illusion at this very moment?

To add, the timing of this inquiry runs parallel to feelings of ‘dark night’ relating to fear based responses

This is great! Thank you for your honesty.

If the above did not provide any shift, then this fear can indeed also be blocking seeing. But this is great news, because we can work on that fear.

To do this, you will need to trust me.

You will need to look exactly as instructed, earnestly, and with 100% honesty. Humour me if you need to, simply consider that the WORST that can happen if I am completely wrong, is nothing at all!

Can you agree to that?

[Katiebrown54]

Of course ...thank you.

[Katiebrown54]

Yes there has been this unspoken expectation that awakening was the focus although the concept of ‘awakening’ was being used synonymously with the process of seeing ‘no self’. There has since been a dropping of this expectation and was getting on the way of the process as you have pointed out.

Furthermore ‘awakening’ does require a doer and have also seen through this now. Perhaps it has enabled further reinforcement/ shift of the in the process.

In the meantime there has been some ‘working on the fear’ inquiry and during this time have asked questions regarding what the fear is about and ultimately a fear of death is the result... then the question of ‘who dies’ is questioned and seeing of the no self is evident but does little for the intensity of emotions attached to this fear. Consequently whilst the inquiry has continued fear seemingly has been a distraction.
In last couple of days, intensity has subsided and which has certainly highlighted the coming and going of emotion, changes in intensity and it’s obvious impermanence.

Perhaps there has also been the recognition that seeing no self, doesn’t actually change ones experience of intense emotion so this has also been dropped as an expectation.

Moving back to your original question ‘how does it feel’ seeing no self ...the answer remains much the same.., little difference.

Happy to trust this next process.

[gondwana]

Ok, good. Let us take a look at this fear.

Please, find a quiet place to practice, and bring the fear up right now.

As you read this, recall the fear and bring it into the present moment for a closer look. Try to really feel it now. Drench yourself in it. Allow it to flow.

Ok, feeling ready?

Now just let it be there, doing it’s thing, and simply observe it. It is protecting something from being found out. A bit like an automatic security system.

Can you find any locations in the body where the physical sensation of this fear is felt? They are just sensations - you already know these to be impersonal. Simply notice them and move on, they need no attention.

Now bring the fear closer still, invite it to share its wisdom. It is ok to just let it be as it is. Fear in of itself, cannot hurt you at all.

Acknowledge that it is simply doing its job.

How amazing is it, that it can automatically protect a secret like this, from your very own mind?

Respect it. Bow to it.

Now take a look at what is BEHIND the fear.

What do you see?
What is it protecting?

[Katiebrown54]

Hope your question has been understood
very aware that the answer given below is as if self enquiry has never ever taken place - it’s all about the me...but this is the response nevertheless.

‘What do you see
What is being protected?’

Protection from :
A feeling of responsibility and failure to protect ‘my’ child
A fear that if my child doesn’t cope he will fall apart and therefore ‘ I ‘ will fall apart and not cope and be destroyed
Although in an earlier exercise there was recognition of there being no control in this life, there still arose Fear of a loss of control?

[Katiebrown54]

Tim,
Just clicked...

Protecting the non existent ‘me’

[gondwana]

Tim,
Just clicked...

Protecting the non existent ‘me’

Yes! And something that NEVER existed, in fact needs no protection at all...

So, the vital question again:

Now that you have seen for certain this time there REALLY is in fact no ‘you’...how does this feel?

What changes now?

What stays the same?