Falling into

[Matthew]

experienced in the mind

Seems to be coming from the same place as the "me-ness". Just in the mind.

What exactly is this "place" that you are referring to here?
Does it exist?


What is "mind"?
Is there a mind? Or a belief in a mind?


What does "mind" consist of?
Is there a mind? Or thoughts about a mind?


Is the belief in a thing called "mind" not the same pattern as the belief in a thing called "self"?

[Cloudberry]

This is awesome. Looking.

Report back shortly

[Cloudberry]

Hi Matthew

This is a great inquiry.

What does "mind" consist of?
Is there a mind? Or thoughts about a mind?

There is something happening which I assumed to be mind but yes, it looks to be just thoughts. It's so close and kind of hard to see. Like I'm standing on it or in it and looking for it. I see the self thoughts after they happen. I'm starting to see how the story of me, self, is being built all the time.

Is the belief in a thing called "mind" not the same pattern as the belief in a thing called "self"?

Logically I can see this and it's a freeing idea but I've not been able to see through it yet. How do I do it? Is it just a case of watching and watching and watching and seeing through the belief?

I've definitely moved on today from a sense of "me-ness" residing in the mind, to starting to see this as just thoughts.

It feels like trying to see through a Gordian knot.

Thank you so much for your guidance

Rob

[Matthew]

Bring up the thought "I".
Say it loudly a few times or just as thought.
Do this until it is right there and can be observed.
When it is right there, observe it like a hawk.
And inquire:


Does the thought "I" react?
Can "I" do anything?
Can "I" become anything?
Can "I" think other thoughts?

I've not been able to see through it yet. How do I do it?

Can "I" see through this?

[Cloudberry]

Have been looking into this


When exploring your questions, it's a struggle to find the consistent"I" and bring it up so it can be seen clearly. All there is, is either self referential thoughts or thoughts that seem to be about me such as thinking about work tomorrow or thinking about some task to do today. Story I guess. No solid I. If I ask the questions of the I related thought then the I thought cannot react, do anything, become anything or think other thoughts. If I look look look at it it disappears because it is just a thought which has no solid nature.

This morning there has been a developing sense of beingness, aliveness, embodied here-ness the like of which has not been felt before.

[Matthew]

because it is just a thought which has no solid nature

Has "I" EVER been more than a thought?
Did "I" ever have a solid nature?

Or was it just that ALL ALONG. A little false idea.
An innocent imagination with no basis in reality.

[Cloudberry]

Has "I" EVER been more than a thought?

It seems that "I" has never been more than a thought

Did "I" ever have a solid nature?

It can't have, there's nothing there.

Or was it just that ALL ALONG. A little false idea.
An innocent imagination with no basis in reality.

Yes, just an innocent idea. An imagined entity kept alive by thought.

This is it

[Matthew]

How does it feel to see this?

[Cloudberry]

Thank you Matthew

It's been very interesting, especially today.

There was a gentle knowing there was nothing there and this felt really light. This was followed by disappointment and thoughts that it wasn't so. Some thoughts that it should feel different with a more permanent shift. How can it be so if there are thoughts doubting it. If there are thoughts questioning the seeing then it can't be true, yet I had seen there was nothing there. Attention shifted back to being

Right now there is a deep sense of embodiment and calmness. Looking will continue as truth can't hide. It does feel different. It feels beautiful. It feels like I could sit anywhere alone for hours and have everything I need.

Things look and feel different.

How are you?

[Matthew]

Thanks! I'm doing great. Especially after reading this:

It feels like I could sit anywhere alone for hours and have everything I need.

Things look and feel different.

Sounds amazing!

This was followed by disappointment and thoughts that it wasn't so. Some thoughts that it should feel different with a more permanent shift. How can it be so if there are thoughts doubting it. If there are thoughts questioning the seeing then it can't be true

We could simply agree to ignore this ridiculous thought babbling.
Treat it like a friend you like a lot, but know that he lies all the time. You don't care about his babbling.
You simply let him be.

Treat it like an old radio playing in a restaurant kitchen. No one really cares, what is being played. It just plays and plays all day and no one really listens to it.



And from time to time, you can go ahead and question:

Some thoughts that it should feel different with a more permanent shift

What demands this?
Is there something behind this thought actually wanting it to feel different?
What demands a more permanent shift?

If there are thoughts questioning the seeing then it can't be true

Is there an entity bringing up these thoughts of questioning?
Can thought alone truly question anything? Or just tell a story about "questioning".

How can it be so if there are thoughts doubting it

Have you brought up and authored these thoughts about doubt?

[Cloudberry]

You are always so spot on :-)

Great questions.
There's still some unseen belief of self still in there.

However I'm getting the hang of this and feel I know what this is about now. What is behind this.

[Matthew]

Yes. The hang of this is simply to STOP and to LOOK at what is TRULY here.
Not in concepts, not in imagination, not in memory...
But in the HERE and NOW.

There's still some unseen belief of self still in there

So what is truly here in actual experience.
Is there a belief? Or is there thought about believing.

Is there a belief?
If so, what exactly believes in a self?

[Cloudberry]

Hi Matthew

Back in the office today. I'm a program manager and have multiple projects to run so workdays are busy and use a lot of mental energy. It feels like I lose progress in the week with less attention free for quality looking. That said I've still been looking and the feeling of beingness is still strong and accessible. I sit for meditation twice a day and take frequent pauses throughout the day. My train journey home was sat with eyes open and just lookin inwards to see what was there. Stories and thoughts coming and going accompanied by the deep sense of beingness.

It's a fantastic process and one which I will continue and update through the week. I'll review our past discussions to keep the looking focused while in the midst of daily doing.

Wishing you well

[Matthew]

It feels like I lose progress in the week with less attention free for quality looking

That's fine.
The process is shaped as it is.
All is good.

I sit for meditation twice a day

What is this supposed to achieve?
What is supposed to benefit from meditation as an activity?

I'm a program manager

Are you really?

[Cloudberry]

That's fine.
The process is shaped as it is.
All is good

.

Thank you

What is this supposed to achieve?
What is supposed to benefit from meditation as an activity?

Great questions.
Could it be that I am meditating to optimise the self that doesn't exist?
It does seem to help shift from doing into being.

Are you really?

Love this :-) No, it's just a label that is applied using language.

It's not who I am.
Then who am I?
What am I?
Who needs to know the answer to these questions?
Who is asking the questions?

This is a great inquiry that is pointing to the crux of the matter