seeing not just intellectualizing

[tissetatten]

Hi

When you become aware of an emotional happening, does it change ?



Not always. Usually what happens is i observe it, i feel more like a scientist looking at something. Like a contraction or on an issu that i feel strongly about, notice that it doesnt drive me blindly mad anymore like it may have done in the past. I can have an "argument" with ppl amd not get angry or uppset or effected but i can see that it effects them..

And then there are times when i do feel a strong emotion like when somone clearly did something unjast too me (my boss had some favourism that effected my work and i found that personal and unfair) then i did react in anger, but i was observing it the whole time. And me and her did talk about it ar the office and we told our sides of the story. Sometimes i just lay amd feel sensations, emotions, vibrations, heartbeat, pains in the body i try to just let them be and play out.

So can you always trust that what you see is 'real' ?



No

so are you saying that you think you will eventually know exactly how this works ?


I didnt say i.. bit i do think there are ppl out there who know a whole lot more.

Maybe you are about to see that seeing something doesn't mean that it has to be right. That possibly what is actual, is different to what you think you see.



Maybe.. we'll see when i see

[tissetatten]

Can u post the link on how to use the quotaions? I dont know what im doing wrong i try to do it in different ways each time...


<3 T

[tissetatten]

testing.

[tissetatten]

Hahaha nope 😅

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Tissetatten,

Can u post the link on how to use the quotations?

Ok, here you go; https://www.liberationunleashed.com/nat ... ?f=4&t=660

When you become aware of an emotional happening, does it change ?

Not always. Usually what happens is i observe it, i feel more like a scientist looking at something. Like a contraction or on an issu that i feel strongly about, notice that it doesnt drive me blindly mad anymore like it may have done in the past. I can have an "argument" with ppl amd not get angry or uppset or effected but i can see that it effects them..

This is good. Do you usually see that the emotion is about to arise, or do you catch it soon after it arises, or after that ?

i do feel a strong emotion like when someone clearly did something unjust to me ... then i did react in anger, but i was observing it the whole time.

Was there a part of you that give permission to feel the anger ? ..or something that said that it was a good thing to get angry ?

Sometimes i just lay amd feel sensations, emotions, vibrations, heartbeat, pains in the body i try to just let them be and play out.

When this is happening, is there an intention to try and end them ?

bit i do think there are ppl out there who know a whole lot more.

Do you think that everybody has the same awakening experience? (when it happens)
Do you think that those people who (you think) know a whole lot more than you do, How is your life different than theirs' ?

love

vince

[tissetatten]

Do you usually see that the emotion is about to arise, or do you catch it soon after it arises, or after that ?

It differs. Sometimes i expect serten things to trigger emotion and i watch, sometimes nothing happens and i just make a note of that knowing that years ago it wouöd have bothered me. Other times im surized and watch it like "huh there is tension here, this would have felt personal before".

Was there a part of you that give permission to feel the anger ? ..or something that said that it was a good thing to get angry ?
So

Well a lot of thougjts went through, is it ok to be angry? Should i "rise above" it and belive that everything happens the way it should and you can never know what is best and there for leave it alone. Am i being a coward? Or supressing and not real if i dont say anything and keep calm? Will this do more damage in the long run? And so on, ad i said i watch amd comment (analyze).

Sometimes i just lay amd feel sensations, emotions, vibrations, heartbeat, pains in the body i try to just let them be and play out.
When this is happening, is there an intention to try and end them ?

Yes there ia bur i "try" not to.. They say just exept what ever pains and feelings u have, just let them be there, welcome them, love them just let them be there. AND THEN thell go away on there own. So yeah even if i try to just let them be there and be ok, there is a wish that the unpleasnt feeling or bodyly pain ro go away I dont think that really can be helped.

Do you think that everybody has the same awakening experience? (when it happens)
Do you think that those people who (you think) know a whole lot more than you do, How is your life different than theirs' ?

No not everyone has the same, when it happens. Some see lights, som hear a pop, som faint, some have kundalini contractions some it happens slowley over time amd they dont even know what has happend just that theyv lost something or something is different or weird and so on.. I dont know how life is different for them, they seem to see something i dont, understand things i dont, see the nondoual, boundryless, feel expanded, no one is home, a lot of talk about heart opening and seeng the beauty of the world, feeling more, being here, now not thinking about future, past, being present and in the moment focused on what there doing, saing and not simultainiusly running another diolog in the head, constant thinking doesnt disturb as much its nore quiet in the backround, some are aware even douring sleep.

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Tissetatten,

No not everyone has the same,

Absolutely true. Everybody has their own unique awakening. Nobody is the same. There are certain things that are common to every experience though.
Some of those, i see in you.
Your response to negative emotion, for example.
Many thought processes that you describe are also common to awakened people.

Some see lights, som hear a pop, som faint, some have kundalini contractions some it happens slowley over time amd they dont even know what has happend just that theyv lost something or something is different or weird and so on.. I dont know how life is different for them, they seem to see something i dont, understand things i dont, see the nondoual, boundryless, feel expanded, no one is home, a lot of talk about heart opening and seeng the beauty of the world, feeling more, being here, now not thinking about future, past, being present and in the moment focused on what there doing, saing and not simultainiusly running another diolog in the head, constant thinking doesnt disturb as much its nore quiet in the backround, some are aware even douring sleep.

Ha, you've been reading too much pop spiritual stuff.
Certainly, some people have some of those things, but not many. Out of somewhere between 50 and a hundred people that i've guided, maybe a half a dozen have had, what i call bells and whistles, experiences on awakening. ..and those experiences always end. (everything is impermanent)
Some of what you mention, the being present, being focused etc, get better with practise. Most people have a lot of conditioning to undo. Habitual ways of thinking need to be changed. This happens with awareness. ..and you seem to have that. You can watch your thoughts.
..but instead of having an opinion (a judgement) about them, if you celebrate the recognition of what is happening, then they will change.
Forget the magic. This is very ordinary.
We say that somebody is awakened, because they are not sleepwalking any more. That is that they are not operating on automatic. They are aware of the thoughts and emotions that are present.
..or we say that they are liberated. That is that they are liberated from the illusions that most people operate under. The delusional behavior where they take beliefs and call it knowing. (they are 'full of themselves')(this is 'no-one home' - no self running the show.)
Those people project themselves out into the world and call it 'out there'. The awakened project themselves out onto the world and recognize that it it their interpretation that they are responding to. (this is the non-dual, boundaryless)

So, if you don't wish to suffer, then don't have opinions.
Is it possible to not have opinions ?

love

vince

[tissetatten]

Good to hear from you vince..

So, if you don't wish to suffer, then don't have opinions.
Is it possible to not have opinions ?

Well i am less judjy then my friends and collegues and ppl i know and more tollorant. Because i understand that ppl operate from the councioussness there at.


I cant agree that not having opinions ends suffering (see opinion) because i still have to live this life i guess i turned to spiritullity because i was so sick of it that i wanted to desolve into nothing (like dying)

The part i wrote to you about awarness douring sleep, i had that for 10 years, it felt like i didnt sleep at All douring those 10 years (i was reading echart and kabbalah then) i could take up to 3 sleeping pills and not notice that i fell asleep. The doctors told me that was impossible and tjat i had to be sleeping but not notecing it. And i didnt know untill recently that one could be aware douring sleep. Iv seen ppl talk about it on my favourit show buddah at tje gaspump..
Now a days i can sleep like a normal person though without pills..


Tnx T

[vinceschubert]

Good evening tissetatten,

I can't agree that not having opinions ends suffering

Is it possible that i know something that you don't ? (yet)

i still have to live this life

Tell what you mean by this ?
Do it in detail. What do you mean by live ?
Describe what you mean by life?
When you say thislive, is there any other life ?

i turned to spirituality because i was so sick of it

Would you call this 'suffering' ?
Did you have the opinion that it should have been different ?

about awareness during sleep, i had that for 10 years,

Do you know what lucid dreaming is ?
You didn't answer the question; Do you think that it is possible not to have opinions ?

love

vince

[tissetatten]

Hi..

[quote Do you know what lucid dreaming is ? ][/quote]

Yes i do know what it is. But i hardly even remember my dreams. Iv only been able to control 1 dream once. And then iv had a few where i knew i was dreaming and trying to wake myself up. But normaly i donr even remember my dreams...

Is it possible that i know something that you don't ? (yet

A lot of things are possible..

Tell what you mean by this ?
Do it in detail. What do you mean by live ?
Describe what you mean by life?
When you say thislive, is there any other life ?

I mean the whole way we humans live. Ppl slaves to jobs they usually dont like just to pay rent, food, and stuff. Destroing the planet and animals and eachoter because we put money above everything else. Our sociaty isnt nurishing for artists, philosofers, ppl who want to meditate and evolve there conciousness.. Im not going to be ok just "doing whatever" because there is no "me". Do you belive we have a dharma? A specific reason, job to do while were here? I didnt used to belive in that and i dont know if i do now but thats how it feels it feels that im out of alighnment with what my talents are and im not serving the worls or myself in any postive way.

i turned to spirituality because i was so sick of it
Would you call this 'suffering' ?
Did you have the opinion that it should have been different ?

This is very much suffering. And yes i do have the wish that things were different. My frinends come from loving stable homes, and i didnt have that and still dont. And done a lot of misstakes that could uv been avoided with some guidence. I do feel life has been unessesarely hard and the fun has been sucked our of it. And yeah i guess i saw this search as the final hope that yould stop all that.

[vinceschubert]

Good evening tissetatten,

I mean the whole way we humans live. Ppl slaves to jobs they usually dont like

Yeah, i get it. So is the alternative to do something different. Drop out and go live a hippie life in the hills ?
..or maybe it's to do what is necessary, but have a different attitude to it.
What conclusion did you come to ?

Do you believe we have a dharma?

i believe in consequences. i don't know if that's the same thing.

it feels that im out of alighnment with what my talents are and im not serving the worls or myself in any postive way.

yes, i've felt this at different times during my life.
Paint me a word picture of how it would be if you were to be in alignment and your talents were to be utilized.

My frinends come from loving stable homes, and i didnt have that and still dont.

So are you living the consequences of this ? ..and can they be changed ? ..and if so, how ?

misstakes that could uv been avoided with some guidence.

What form would have that guidance have taken ?

And yeah i guess i saw this search as the final hope that yould stop all that.

That certainly is possible. However that is the wrong motivation for what you are looking for.
With that as the driving force, you will strengthen the very thing that you wish to end. Can you imagine how that might work ? Tell me ?

love

vince

[tissetatten]

Drop out and go live a hippie life in the hills ?
..or maybe it's to do what is necessary, but have a different attitude to it.
What conclusion did you come to ?

Well im still here, i havent booked a ticket to the himalyas so it looks like im staying doing whata necessary..

Do you believe we have a dharma?
i believe in consequences. i don't know if that's the same thing.

Do you meen karma?
Darma is more of a life mission. My talent is clear and obvius and its what makes me happy so thats why i think i ought to have a perpes.

yes, i've felt this at different times during my life.
Paint me a word picture of how it would be if you were to be in alignment and your talents were to be utilized.

Well im smart and talented and rightnow im not using either of those things expet for reading books for seekers. I have been stagnent for many years and i dont like it. If i dont like jobs that are fony and i dont like lying and telling ppl to buy stuff they dont need, i dont want to be part of the thing thats moving the world in the wrong direction. And i dont want to work somewhere where im not learning and growing like lets say the supermarker because that would bore me to tears and depress me. So i have to do something that "i" consider meaningfull. His whole there is no person and therefor i should be happy with what ever comes my way because its an experiance. I dont feel that at all.

My frinends come from loving stable homes, and i didnt have that and still dont.
So are you living the consequences of this ? ..and can they be changed ? ..and if so, how ?

Yes i am living the consequences of this and no it cannot be changed. Forinstans its soon xmas and ill be spending it alone. And i dont have a relationship with my family and i dont want to because there immature irrational ppl, and we dont get along.

misstakes that could uv been avoided with some guidence.
What form would have that guidance have taken ?[/quot
e]



Well any interest in my life would have been helpful. To talk to me, se if i was ok, need help, education, boyz, love, money. Idont want to get into detailes about my life on the internet so this will have to do.

me: And yeah i guess i saw this search as the final hope that yould stop all that.

You: That certainly is possible. However that is the wrong motivation for what you are looking for.
With that as the driving force, you will strengthen the very thing that you wish to end. Can you imagine how that might work ? Tell me ?

Im reinforsing the me because i put so mutch energy on it buy being misserable? The universes magical elvs wont help me? What?
How do you see it?

/thank you

[vinceschubert]

Good evening T,

Well im still here, i havent booked a ticket to the himalyas so it looks like im staying doing whata necessary..

Now this is a big one. A potential portal for you to see something (maybe)
Can you see that you are "still here", because that's how life panned out ?
That it couldn't have been any other way, unless things had been different ? ..but they weren't. Because circumstances were just what they were, it had to happen this way ?
..also, that mind would like to convince you that it could have chosen to do something different.
These are the consequences of circumstances that i mentioned. (i don't know if you'd call it karma)

Darma is more of a life mission.

Do you think that purpose has any existence other than as a social construct ?

My talent is clear and obvious and its what makes me happy so thats why i think i ought to have a purpose

Would you say that your purpose is (would be) to do something that expresses your talent ?
If so, can you see that it is something that is invented ?

I have been stagnant for many years

i would say that this is the consequences of circumstances. Would you agree ?
Does your thoughts say that it should have been different ?
Do they say that it could have been different ?

So i have to do something that "i" consider meaningfull.

To see the opportunity for this, takes a certain relaxed awareness. Some call it serendipity.
There is no room for 'self' pity or depression here. A particular alertness, that sees possibilities, coupled with braveness to have a go.
This is not something that you can DO. It will happen when circumstances are right.
Do you think that you have any influence on circumstances ?

therefore i should be happy with whatever comes my way

That will very likely happen when you are liberated. (awake) ..but to live with the circumstance of the "should", leaves you in a state of deficiency (guilt or lack). It's the very thing that will deprive you of it.
Can you see this ?

no it cannot be changed.

Can you imagine any circumstances that would change it ?

Im reinforsing the me because i put so mutch energy on it buy being misserable?

Yes, exactly.

How do you see it?

i see that by opening yourself up to being guided, by being willing to change, that you are inviting the circumstances that will contribute to a different way of thinking. ..and that will be a circumstance that means a different way of behaving. ..and that will mean different experiences. ..and that will mean that your story will change for the better. ..and that will mean different experiencing. ..and that will change your story. ...and experiencing.

love

vince
ps. make sure that you answer every ? (question)
hugs

[tissetatten]

Darma is more of a life mission.
Do you think that purpose has any existence other than as a social construct ?

I didnt used to think it was more then a social construct. Now i know better.

Would you say that your purpose is (would be) to do something that expresses your talent ?
If so, can you see that it is something that is invented ?

I can see.. but i dont beilive that anymore. I lived with that that consept for years it has made me misserable, its not true. You need to look up the meaning of dharma

Can you see that you are "still here", because that's how life panned out ?

Well thats what i said. Im still here.

that mind would like to convince you that it could have chosen to do something different.

Yes i do think i COULD/CAN chose different.. My choices where based on fear, ignorance (samscaras).

I have been stagnant for many years.

i would say that this is the consequences of circumstances. Would you agree ?
Does your thoughts say that it should have been different ?
Do they say that it could have been different ?

Well I used to think i had no choice, because when this thing started i really broke down. That part no i couldnt have changed or controlled i did the best i could not to go crazy or die. But then i latched on to this whole seeking thing and now that my mind is better and and a lot of needed healing has happened i dont know why i continue. It feels like im searching for a pink elefant and that im wasting my time. I cant just keep reading books about this and not moving on with my life. /studying/ changing jobs etc.

This is not something that you can DO. It will happen when circumstances are right.
Do you think that you have any influence on circumstances ?

Do you think i should give up? Stop reading, searching, meditating and just live?

That will very likely happen when you are liberated. (awake) ..but to live with the circumstance of the "should", leaves you in a state of deficiency (guilt or lack). It's the very thing that will deprive you of it.
Can you see this ?

Well maybe it will happen then but its not a way of getting there. Its a description not a prescriotion for how to get there. I know because i have lived like that and i feel like iv wasted time and im bored.

Can you imagine any circumstances that would change it ?

Well anything can be imagend even a pink unicorn kitten. But its not probable..


I try to answer every question.. / T

[vinceschubert]

Good afternoon TisseTatten, Listen, we are not having a conversation here. The answers to my questions aren't the point.
It's the examination of the subject, that is important.
i know that typing on your phone is a pain, but try and be a little more verbose.
Now we have a language that we are communicating with, but that language has evolved through social and cultural usage. That is words that the masses have invented and used. Therefore, words to describe some of what we are pointing at simply don't exist. (because the masses are still asleep and haven't had a need for such descriptions). Therefore we have to use common words and phrases to 'point at' what we mean.
Now, i can see that you have developed a belief system that alleviates your suffering. This is good, but now it's time to recognize the shortcomings of those beliefs.
Now, i'm going to ask you some very important questions. This time, i only need a yes or no answers.
Consider them carefully, as the consequences are huge.
Are you prepared to discover that everything that you think that you know, is wrong ?
When you consider this, does a sense of dread arise ?
..or a feeling of excitement ?
Is the bravery to discover a whole new world evident ?
..or the fear that you will disappear into an existential hole present ?
..or is there a certainty that it isn't possible (that your beliefs are wrong) ?

vince