I

[springwater]

Jon,

I am looking out these eyeballs of this 'Renee' body.

At any moment of seeing, is that what is really happening?

I don't know for sure

Is there actually an experience of 'someone', 'a person', 'looking out of eyeballs' ?

No there's not a someone or a person looking out. There's just looking.

Thank you,
Renee

[JonathanR]

Hi Renee,

I am looking out these eyeballs of this 'Renee' body.

At any moment of seeing, is that what is really happening?

I don't know for sure

This is rather important. Try the exercise again. No need to strain with it, just notice what can be seen happening in the immediate experience.

Is a 'you' somehwere 'in there', 'looking out' through eye-windows?

Is there actually an experience of 'someone', 'a person', 'looking out of eyeballs' ?
No there's not a someone or a person looking out. There's just looking.

OK. When this just looking is noticed, is it the only thing that is gong on or are there thoughts about 'someone looking'? , or even thoughts on different subjects?


best wishes,

Jon

[JonathanR]

Hi Renee,

How is it going?

best wishes.

Jon

[springwater]

Jon,

Sorry for the delay. I had worked on my responses after your questions but I was getting so confused. Felt like I was hitting a wall.

Is a 'you' somehwere 'in there', 'looking out' through eye-windows?

I have said there's not a someone looking out, there's just looking. But there is recognizing. What's recognizing? What is comprehending?

When this just looking is noticed, is it the only thing that is gong on or are there thoughts about 'someone looking'? , or even thoughts on different subjects?

Yes there are thoughts at times about someone looking. Thoughts on different subjects? Yes

Thanks Jon,
Renee

[JonathanR]

Hi Renee,

I have said there's not a someone looking out, there's just looking. But there is recognizing. What's recognizing? What is comprehending?

Does it have to be a 'what'?

Does it feel as though it ought to be a 'what'?

Could it be just the noticing, without there being any need for a subject that 'does noticing'?

Yes there are thoughts at times about someone looking. Thoughts on different subjects? Yes

Do any of these thoughts refer to a 'me' ?


Thank you,

Jon

[springwater]

Hi Jon,

Does it have to be a 'what'?

It seems like it's a something...source...

Does it feel as though it ought to be a 'what'?

It doesn't feel as though it ought to be a what. The mind thinks it has to be something

Could it be just the noticing, without there being any need for a subject that 'does noticing'?

Yes...it could be just the noticing without any need for a subject that 'does' noticing.

Yes there are thoughts at times about someone looking. Thoughts on different subjects? Yes

Do any of these thoughts refer to a 'me' ?

Yes these thoughts seem to refer to a 'me'. But sometimes I analyze it and try and look at what's looking...like the undefinable is what's looking.

Thank you,
Renee

[JonathanR]

Hi Renee,

. Does it have to be a 'what'?
It seems like it's a something...source...

The reason I asked is because you asked:

what's recognizing? What is comprehending?

You seemed to be very interested in knowing an answer for this? As if getting to some kind of final understanding about it is a quest for you? Is that right? Please let me know?

. Yes these thoughts seem to refer to a 'me'. But sometimes I analyze it and try and look at what's looking.

That's good.

Take a look at any story or scenario refering to 'me' or 'mine' that appears as the content of a thought, or what the thought is ABOUT. If you like, imagine that thoughts appearing are rather like frames of a movie. 'Me' appears in the ongoing drama.

Notice the narrative, the story of 'I' as it appears and seems to be real.

With best wishes,

Jon

[springwater]

Jon,

what's recognizing? What is comprehending?

You seemed to be very interested in knowing an answer for this? As if getting to some kind of final understanding about it is a quest for you? Is that right? Please let me know?

I don't know if it's finding an answer to this. It is more....I want the confidence and stability in knowing myself as the unchanging more often than not. I'm sick of believing I am little 'me'.

Notice the narrative, the story of 'I' as it appears and seems to be real.

Watching a narrative...it's hard when I'm emotionally involved (which is happening now...I'm in a love story...hoping...waiting...wanting). It's hard to detach. The 'me' story in this scenario seems to be real. But I notice the narrative as you say...and detach and then attach right back to it. Hmmm...I guess practice would be good. I don't know.

Thank you,
Renee

[JonathanR]

Hi Renee,

I don't know if it's finding an answer to this. It is more....I want the confidence and stability in knowing myself as the unchanging more often than not

Who wants this? Or, rather, what wants this?

It's really worth looking for that one.

Do you see why?


Best wishes,

Jon

[springwater]

Hi Jon,

I want the confidence and stability in knowing myself as the unchanging more often than not

Who wants this? Or, rather, what wants this?

I see the little needy 'me' wants this freedom. I need help with this. It seems to be all in my mind. How do I be done with this desire?

It's really worth looking for that one.

Do you see why?

Yes. I see the culprit of the pain, confusion and desire. At times I can be detached from this idea of 'me'. But it seems to have such attractive energy and pulls me in. Help!

Thank you,
Renee

[JonathanR]

Hello Renee,

. I see the little needy 'me' wants this freedom. I need help with this. It seems to be all in my mind. How do I be done with it?

I really want to help. So here are some questions:

In the story of 'the needy little me' is freedom somewhere else?

Can freedom be experienced by a story?

. Yes. I see the culprit of the pain, confusion and desire. At times I can be detached from this idea of 'me'. But it seems to have such attractive energy and pulls me in. Help!

I'm here to help.

Consider thought. Is it possible to prevent thoughts from appearing? Try to prevent a thought from showing up.

Important. Is it possible to prevent thoughts from appearing, including the thought 'I'?

best wishes

Jon

[springwater]

Jon,

In the story of 'the needy little me' is freedom somewhere else?

It seems within reach and seen and felt sometimes but thoughts cloud it up. I don't think little me can experience this. It has to get out of the way. I need a change in perspective. It seems this other perspective which is more detached from 'me' is so fleeting .

Can freedom be experienced by a story?

it seems to happen momentarily...but maybe it's not the story experiencing this...it's when the story is out of the way. I want it to get out of the way more. I need a different perspective.

Is it possible to prevent thoughts from appearing, including the thought 'I'?

It seems thoughts just appear, even the 'me' - can't prevent when they arise. Although it seems possible to not keep adding thoughts making and believing a story from one thought. Somehow it seems there is a relation to thoughts that has to be changed. Some detachment or something. I don't know.

Thank you,
Renee

[JonathanR]

Hi Renee,

. it's when the story is out of the way. I want it to get out of the way more

How is the story of 'me' going to get its self out of the way?

Would it be better and faster simply to recognise the 'me that is in the way' as entirely story? Would that help?


Best wishes,

Jon

[springwater]

Jon,

Would it be better and faster simply to recognise the 'me that is in the way' as entirely story? Would that help?

Yes I feel seeing in this way would be of great help. Seeing from another perspective...detached. I seem to briefly see 'me' as story and detach but more often than not I am believing 'me' to be real. I don't know how to stay more with the perspective of seeing clearly.

Thank you,
Renee

[JonathanR]

Hi Renee,

Would it be better and faster simply to recognise the 'me that is in the way' as entirely story? Would that help?...


Yes I feel seeing in this way would be of great help. Seeing from another perspective...detached. I seem to briefly see 'me' as story and detach but more often than not I am believing 'me' to be real. I don't know how to stay more with the perspective of seeing clearly.

Could the feeling of needing to 'stay with clear perspective' have to do with a perceived battle against something that is seen to be 'in the way'?

What if that 'me' never 'existed'?

Is it seen that the 'me that is in the way' is entirely story, but thoughts will probably appear 'carrying' labels and references to this fictional entity?

If it is seen that the 'me' is not a 'real thing' that could actually 'get in the way' of anything, as such, but instead a story ABOUT a 'me', is there still a need to 'get rid' of something?

Best wishes,

Jon