The Gate

Hello willing
Thanks for your response. Yes, it was quite obvious that you had drifted out from this dialogue.

The idea of you going back and answering the questions was to go back and focus. You say you find this daunting. It was, in a way, supposed to be to get you to focus.
I await your response on the last exercise and see where we go from there.

Tell me though . What are you expecting from this process ?

Love and Blessings
Lawrence

Hi again willing
Forget the last question, but where are you within this process ? What changes , if any, are there now since we started.
X

Forget the last question, but where are you within this process ? What changes , if any, are there now since we started.

This question at least I can answer :)

Autobiographical "I" has been seen through. There are still memories of things from the past and they are a bit sticky at the moment (I'm experiencing some echoes of past health problems), but I don't feel taken in by their narrative.

Conceptualising has been more precisely seen happening at quite a subtle level. What I sometimes took for descriptions of sensory experience were actually assumptions or thoughts about experience. Connecting with direct experience - I mean really connecting with it clearly in order to investigate it - is hard at the moment. It's often fuzzy, vague, unfocused. So clarity comes in flashes when it's there at all.

The body as "me" is looser but not gone altogether. There is still an attachment to that - it feels less obvious and more entrenched than the autobiographical re-constructions. There was a wonderful feeling of blending in to everything before I went away and I guess I hoped it might deepen into a genuine felt sense of non-separation, but it didn't get to that.

Tell me though . What are you expecting from this process ?

No expectations, though some hopes have been around, like the one above. I'd like to see through the illusions I carry around about how things are so that the way I live is truer to what is. There is an idea that'd be better - not necessarily more pleasant, just....more attuned? Finding it hard to put into words. I'd just like to let go of misguided ideas.

I hope that's some use in showing where things are at the moment. I don't think all is lost, but there's a 'low ebb' kind of feeling about.

with love
willing

Good morning Willing
Thank you for your response. I need to look closely at this and respond during the day, but please spend today with the last experiment and come back to me on this, otherwise we are just drifting further and further.
Blessings
Lawrence

Connecting with direct experience - I mean really connecting with it clearly in order to investigate it - is hard at the moment. It's often fuzzy, vague, unfocused

You say it is difficult. Yet all you have to do is simply look. Are you afraid just to simply Look and let thoughts drop ?
As if by stopping conceptualizing and thinking you will disappear.
Your ego is huge. Why have you not done those exercises and just whatched your obdy moving and your thoughts coming and going ? It is the most simple taskyet you run from it.

The body as "me" is looser but not gone altogether. There is still an attachment to that - it feels less obvious and more entrenched than the autobiographical re-constructions. There was a wonderful feeling of blending in to everything before I went away and I guess I hoped it might deepen into a genuine felt sense of non-separation, but it didn't get to that.

You experienced exactly what the simplicity of the experience is, yet it is too simple for you. You are on some imagined Buddhist trip to Nirvana. You would sooner get lost in your thoughts than simply look.

There is an idea that'd be better - not necessarily more pleasant, just....more attuned? Finding it hard to put into words. I'd just like to let go of misguided ideas.

You can and have let go. You have been given all the pointers yet you prefer to lose yourself in thought.
You find the task daunting of going through the posts again. Who finds it daunting. Your ego runs away, yet why should the simple task of re-focusing be daunting and going back to the point where you saw clarity be daunting?
Surely this would be what you would want to do, if you honestly wanted to seek the truth ?
Isn't a a few hours of going back and getting clarity better than years of Buddhist searching?
Be honest with yourself.
I am happy to guide you but it is for you to do the work.

Blessings

Lawrence, I am grateful for your guidance, appreciate the zen stick and am happy to be reminded to drop thoughts and conceptualisations, but this post was a bit too much.

Your ego is huge. Why have you not done those exercises and just whatched your obdy moving and your thoughts coming and going ? It is the most simple taskyet you run from it.

I am not running from it. I have been doing the exercise you suggested, in the brief moments that are free. I just haven't stopped work until now to have the chance to post anything.

You are on some imagined Buddhist trip to Nirvana.

We haven't spoken about my Buddhist faith, please, don't make assumptions about what it's about for me.

You find the task daunting of going through the posts again. Who finds it daunting. Your ego runs away, yet why should the simple task of re-focusing be daunting and going back to the point where you saw clarity be daunting?

It is not my ego running away. The clarity is not what's daunting. There are other factors at play here too.

As I said, I am so grateful for your time, but this post goes a bit too far into criticism and assumption. This is really not necessary to encourage me investigate. Please, Lawrence. It is a pressured time, I am unwell, and I am doing my best.

willing

Hello Willing

I am really sorry you are unwell and the difficulties of work and other pressures are making it difficult to cope with.
I think you need to wait till the pressure is off and feeling better because I cannot give you any further tasks as you are unable to complete any at the moment. The last process was supposed to be done all day-not just at a free moment..a 24 hour experience or , at least a couple of hours not a minute or two here and there. I understand it is difficult for you but that understanding will not guide you through the process.
I feel you are also upset with me, you having taken one statement out of context and decided to be offended and missing the thrust of what I was saying. Your faith is your business, mine to get you to Look any way I can
So at the moment as I feel you need to deal with what needs to be dealt with in this moment.It is better to come to this when you are ready. I dont see this process as helping you at the moment if you are unwell and under pressure. This process could bring up stuff that may make your present state worth.
Think about this and come back to me. There is no hurry now. I leave tomorrow night for an Easter retreat and you probably have your own commitments for Easter.

We can always continue later down the line
Blessings and loads of Love
Lawrence

Hi Willing
Have sent you a pm which may be useful.
Blessings
X

Hello again willing
I am preparing to leave for the retreat.. I wanted to say that there is a tiredness and confusion coming from you and that you need to find the space to love yourself. I am available to help you either here or in skype/zoom if and when you can find the time. We can just meet on zoom/skype and see if it works together this way. I know you feel trapped in the "little one" I feel the time you have available you are caught in will not work as a slow email fashion as you get trapped in thoughts that a one to one I can move you with compassion for yourself. If it does not work well that is the way it is supposed to be. Anyway I am back Sunday evening. Whatever you are not abandoned.Either write here or pm me.
Blessings Lawrence

Hello Lawrence

Thank you for this, I have replied to your PM and hope you have a wonderful weekend away at the retreat. To try and re-energise the momentum of the investigation I'm going to keep looking and posting while you're away. Hopefully that will help me to sink beneath all these thoughts and back into direct experience.

I tried the body non-ownership task you sent me.

I want you to observe all the body reactions. Write down EVERY ACTIVITY that " body" does, physically or from thoughts. You note I say ...EVERY ACTION that "BODY" does...not "YOUR BODY" does.
NOTICE IT AS SOMETHING THAT JUST IS HAPPENING - "NO POSSESSION" to the words in future.
eg.
Eyes are Look at words..NOT "my eyes are reading" . Leave this possession out

Eyes are looking at this writing now and thoughts are coming up. You can tell me what thoughts are saying ...but not ANYTHING that has a possession to it.
Check it before you send me anything.

Slight fidgeting in the legs, a comfortable feeling of movement and warmth.
Bladder feeling full, pressure in the lower torso – that might be too much information, sorry!

Back after a break…
Moving to the laundry basket to collect hand washing.
Running water into the bowl, dipping hand in to check the temperature.
Hands and arms kneading and wringing the garments out.
Light touch on the button of the kettle to heat water with the right forefinger.
Eyes look around for the coffee, see it.
Body reaches over to open the fridge door, leans down to get the milk out.
Brief mental image of the sofa in the lounge, prepare coffee and walk from the kitchen to sit on the sofa and type this.

Eyes looking at these words as they appear on the screen, flicking between the screen and the keyboard to locate the correct letters. Not just the keyboard, seeing the hands tapping out the letters too, but they’re blurred, not in focus. The letter keys are in focus. Feel of the buttons under the finger tips is smooth, brief, cold plastic. Not a pleasant sensation. Not unpleasant either. Thoughts coming in about all this going on, what to write, sometimes finding it quite dull. The thought “there’s so much more detail when reporting what’s happening right this moment” comes with a very mild feeling of surprise, and then passes. Actually the feeling of surprise came a little bit before the thought.

This is all just happening.

I have to go out now, so will see if I can continue to carry this "not my ..." sense around as I go about the rest of the day.

with love
willing

Hello Lawrence

I hope your retreat is proving rewarding.

A little update. It's been surprisingly easy to stay with this "not mine" as I've been going about daily life in the past 24 hours. There again, there has been a lot of freedom to follow my own schedule and be with what happens so perhaps worth continuing into more challenging/less conducive conditions. And that's probably all story.

Some things I've noted:
- not claiming "ownership" of actions and experiences feels very natural and has been taking very little effort. It's rarely come into my awareness as something to "let go" of.
- there's a feeling of being "more fully in" what's happening, however mundane. It feels pleasant. Hard to say how that pleasantness appears in experience except that there's an absence of strain, it's just comfortable.
- noticed that behaviour seems to be following more closely what makes most sense to do, and this has definitely not corresponded with my ideas about what should/needs to happen! Nevertheless, there's a feeling of wellbeing in this. Sometimes frissons of anxiety about not getting through everything on my mental list, but those are quite transient and feel less important than following what "fits".
- huge synchronicity in what has been done - have found inspiration and ideas that resonate with my situation at the moment totally unexpectedly, without even trying or intending to.
- a greater feeling of connection, and noticing myself reaching out to other people in a way I might otherwise have felt I didn't have time or "space" for. It's a sensed priority. The feeling of greater connection seems to have qualities of interest and warmth.
- I don't feel identified with my body. Life feels like it's happening through and beyond it, not centred around it.

Going to carry on with this, but also feeling ready to dig a little deeper. I've been reading some LU dialogues for inspiration and am going to try tuning in more closely to actual direct experience. Conceptualising seems to come very readily so I'm going to see if I can spot it happening. Our dialogue around memory was helpful with getting past autobiography... experiencing the thought but not getting hooked into the content. Will report back soon.

love
willing

Hello lovely willing

So lovely to read this posts. . Again you are flowing into it. I am going to do is get you to look at these four insights together.

Nevertheless, there's a feeling of wellbeing in this.

a greater feeling of connection, and noticing myself reaching out to other people in a way I might otherwise have felt I didn't have time or "space" for. It's a sensed priority. The feeling of greater connection seems to have qualities of interest and warmth.

-

I don't feel identified with my body

.Assuming you mean "there is no identification with the body" -no possession ( but no matter-just keeping you sure and straight.)
.

Life feels like it's happening through and beyond it, not centred around it

.
Try and hold these feelings. Tell me what connects them. Remember- not a thinking response. Just relax into those feelings and say what comes up-without possession. A bit of breathing practice and just relaxing into your body. closing your eyes and noticing sensations of the body and sounds without labelling - Then opening your eyes may help.

try tuning in more closely to actual direct experience.

Again this is good. Try breathing practice above

Going to carry on with this, but also feeling ready to dig a little deeper.

We will return to some of the previous work slowly but together.

Conceptualizing seems to come very readily so I'm going to see if I can spot it happening.

Good idea

I look forward to reading anything else.

Blessings
Lawrence

Dear Lawrence, I am sorry for disappearing for a few days. I have been staying with the investigation as fully as possible, though it has been backgrounded a little bit at times by some life stuff. Pleased to be coming back to this now.

Try and hold these feelings. Tell me what connects them. Remember- not a thinking response. Just relax into those feelings and say what comes up-without possession.

Holding the feelings from those quotes in mind, the word "naturalness" comes up. A sense of fluidity and flow. Not sure how else to describe it - no sensed edges? In this feeling there is no obvious sense of "my body" or even "me". Hesitate to say it's like pure energy flowing because that's not quite right - it's not as distinct a feeling as that - but that idea hints at what it's like. There's a warm quality to it. Not a temperature warmth, a heart warmth.

A bit of breathing practice and just relaxing into your body. closing your eyes and noticing sensations of the body and sounds without labelling

Only a short practice of this, but it was like a live version of the feelings I was describing in the quotes from your last post. Sharper and more defined. Less of a feeling of love, less different from any old time, just less "edge" to "me". Noticed that there's less of an imagining of the body contours and boundaries, and more feeling into sensation. Interesting to notice that experience has been both fuller and more sparse than expected. Fuller because there are so many sensations going on not normally noticed, but sparse in that it's just sensation. It makes a huge difference to the "busyness" of experience when the added on labels and thought cycles aren't there. There have been times of experiencing this before, but somehow this time, in the middle of everyday life, it feels quite amazing.

(I) hope you're having a good week, Lawrence.

with love
willing

Hello willing
All is good. Thanks for enquiring. Glad to know stuff is easier for you.
There is a sense of general loosening, but I still feel there is a grip of you conceptualising, because you draw no conclusions about your actual feelings on the sensations you are feeling.

A sense of fluidity and flow. Not sure how else to describe it - no sensed edges? In this feeling there is no obvious sense of "my body" or even "me".

If there is no "me" or "my body" isn't this just being aware ? Can you look at this and see that as there is no sense of the "me", it is just awareness happening observing a body as much as anything else that is around.The "I" has disappeared in awareness because it was never there.
Come -what conclusions does this tell you. What does it feel like to Look at these sensations. What is happening ?

Drop into the experience Look at tell me

Love and Blessings
Lawrence

Hi willing

I I don't know what problems you are having. I have pm you and not sure if you received the response.
So I write on the open page.
Can you tell me if you are having problems. As I said we need to go to Skype or to resume on a daily response.
If I have not had a response within 48 hours I assume you are unable or unwilling to continue at the moment.
If you can just pm me.
Please be assured, if and when you are ready, just pm me and we can carry on at any time
Love and Blessings
Lawrence