The Gate

Hi Jon

The realisation of the now just happened. Just a seeing.

Yes, seeing all is one is clearly seen. I haven't understood this since searching began. Thank you for showing this to this one. I am life living life as that is all there is. Oh such joy is arising. No more searching. Just knowing and seeing.

Yes, thoughts are seen in the immediate now experience but there content are not part of the actual now experience as they are only a story about an illusory I/self or imagined happening. Thank you for pointing this out.

Regards your last question re free will etc, "I" doesn't to do the free will, intention, choice, decision, life makes these decisions, choices etc. There is no I to make them. From past experience, there has been a deep knowing within of what to do. Resting in the place of beingness and peace/home, will guide the way. But before this seeing, I would have said this knowing had risen with me, Diane, the person, but now they will just arise.

Love
Diane

Dear Diane,

I am so happy for you.

Yes, seeing all is one is clearly seen. I haven't understood this since searching began. Thank you for showing this to this one. I am life living life as that is all there is. Oh such joy is arising. No more searching. Just knowing and seeing.

It's unutterably beautiful, isn't it?

Yes, thoughts are seen in the immediate now experience but there content are not part of the actual now experience as they are only a story about an illusory I/self or imagined happening. Thank you for pointing this out.

Very good.

Regards your last question re free will etc, "I" doesn't to do the free will, intention, choice, decision, life makes these decisions, choices etc. There is no I to make them. From past experience, there has been a deep knowing within of what to do. Resting in the place of beingness and peace/home, will guide the way. But before this seeing, I would have said this knowing had risen with me, Diane, the person, but now they will just arise.

So beautiful!


Now, are there any remaining doubts that no self is seen? If so, now would be a good time to mention them?



love

Jon

Dear John

I can't thank you enough for taking me on this journey. There were always thought saying I couldn't do it, not for me, etc always put downs. But now the seeing is seen. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Along the journey and the interaction with you, many "people issues" arose, and were seen, which will now need to be dropped and welcomed home. The receiving of "praise" from you, wanting to please, fear of getting it wrong, etc, etc.

The only query arising is thinking, memory, reminder thoughts, practical ones, so do they just arise and are seen. As simple as that! I can see how complicated I was making the whole seeing business of the realisation. As I have heard it said, it is oh so simple, simple it is, once the "persons" language is dropped and seeing is just seen and a guide to show the way. Thank you again, Jon. Smiling is happening as life is simple, believing in a person has been so complicated and stressful and I am "it" that has been longed for. Wonderful.

I have to say that a new confidence seems to have merged since this seeing. Seeing life in a different way, with no one to please or attain to, is so freeing. Ah, this is where the freedom comes in. The family may be a challenge!!

Life, as usual, has set things up perfectly as Ananta Kranti, who is staying with Lawrence, is holding a 3 day Satsang as from tomorrow so I have decided to go to embody all this seeing and see what comes up to be let go of.

And Jon, I am also going to ILona's Satsang in January, so I might see you there. I hope so. One journey is ending and another starting.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Love and gratitude

Diane.

Dear Diane,

I am so delighted for you!

I want to post at greater length however just at the moment I am with relatives away from home and internet connection is worse than dodgy.

I'll post as soon as I can. I have a few last questions, if that is OK with you?

Love

Jon

That's fine Jon.

I will be away in Satsang for 3 days so your situation is perfect to fit in with that. So I wait to hear from you when convenient to you.

Love

Diane

Hi Diane,

Ok ,have a lovely time. I will post in a day or two.

Love

Jon

Hello Diane,

Hope have had a good satsang?

I had six questions in mind? I will ask these three at a time. Have a go at answering these.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2)Please explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now as if to someone who had never heard of noself before?

3)How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

love,

Jon

Hello Jon

I have only just found your posting and questions. I am at the moment lying in bed with a seized up back. Getting up is difficult and sitting very painful. As there will be quite a bit of typing, a few more days may have to pass before I can answer the questions fully.

Hoping this will be ok with you.

Love
Diane

Hello Diane,

Sorry to hear about your back. I hope it improves soon.

Take time to reply when your back is better.

But please feel free to get in touch if you want to tell me how you are getting on.


love

Jon

HiJon

1. Is there a separate entity, at all, anywhere, "self", me, I, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There is no separate entity at all, no separate self, me or I anywhere and there never was! It is all an illusion. There is only awareness experiencing life through a body. Everything is awareness so awareness is experiencing itself. So all is one life with no separation, so there was never any separate identity, me, I, self.

2. Please explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now as if to someone who had never heard of no self before?

The illusion of the separate self is a belief that so called "people" have that they are separate individuals from one another, living separate lives, and are in control of their life and everything that happens or is experienced is personal to them.

Jon, it is now Tuesday morning 6.15 am and decided to submit the above answers which we're done last night. Back really painful this morning and movement difficult but wanted to let you know what is happening in this body.

Since the Satsang and the back going into spasm, which meant I missed the last day, I can see there is a struggle going on with the egoic mind. A drama wants to be played out with this "me" being in pain and disabled, a victim and fear is arising. The egoic mind seems to wants to be in control and seen. I am aware I go "off" with these thoughts sometimes, and maybe, even awareness is lost for a few seconds, but this is seen, I know there is pain and tiredness in this body but the mind won't stop the thoughts and drama playing out and there is a feeling that there is an "i" suffering this. Not an "I"entity but something is feeling this pain and experiencing this that is real not just an awareness of all this. Clarification is needed, if possible, Jon.

Thank you

Love

Diane

Jon

Having just read through again the last post, I noticed I hadn't fully answered question 2. I will complete this when I answer question 3. Need to stand up and try and walk around now.

Love

Diane

Dear Diane,

So sorry about your back. And sorry to hear that you missed the last day of the Satsang too. We can come back to the questions later. Thank you for starting to answer them, by the way.

Since the Satsang and the back going into spasm, which meant I missed the last day, I can see there is a struggle going on with the egoic mind. A drama wants to be played out with this "me" being in pain and disabled, a victim and fear is arising. The egoic mind seems to wants to be in control and seen. I am aware I go "off" with these thoughts sometimes, and maybe, even awareness is lost for a few seconds, but this is seen, I know there is pain and tiredness in this body but the mind won't stop the thoughts and drama playing out and there is a feeling that there is an "i" suffering this.

Nothing you describe here, though clearly unpleasant and difficult and painful, implies a self that is 'really there' that 'suffers this'. Pain, obsessive thoughts, the insistent appearance of a 'me' that 'suffers'; is all seen. Sure, it's all happening and it is nasty. And this sot of protracted discomfort does seem to bring on the loudest and most insistent announcements of of 'I'm here and I''m hurting', as you point out. One can even drop into imagining that there is 'me' for a while. But then... can waking up from that idea be prevented from happening?

It isn't easy at all but a thing you can try with pain is to notice the uncomfortable sensations and notice the discomfort of flinching away, notice the thought-stories of fear. Now, is any of that 'separate' from a 'you'? Where is the one that is separate from sensation-of-pain? (I know, I know, easier said than done...but it has worked for me with chronic pain sometimes).

Not an "I"entity but something is feeling this pain and experiencing this that is real not just an awareness of all this. Clarification is needed, if possible, Jon.

Something SEEMS to be 'experiencing pain'. The thought is that 'something (entity) is experiencing pain'.

But where is the experiencer of experiencing pain?

Absolutely, sensation is real and can be very painful. It is being felt intensely. The feeling of it is an awareness of it, in this case an acute awareness.

Where is the owner of pain?

Where is the owner of awareness?


Much love,

Jon

Dear Jon

Thank you for the clarification on the feeling of a "who" is experiencing the pain. All is clear, thank you, the sensation of pain is being experienced like any other sensation by awareness, and there is no entity/experiencer of it. The feeling of it, which feels like an experiencer, is just the acute Awareness of it.

There is no owner of the pain and no owner of awareness. Easy to say but not quite so easy to stay in the place of awareness and just observe the sensation of pain.

Back still limiting and had to ring doctors, which I have never done before, for pain relief. But I can laugh and say life is sending a real challenge for understanding before going through the gateless gate!!


Love

Diane

Hello Diane,

Hope the pain-killers are helping and that your back can gradually relax and improve?

You are right, this sort of challenge is a real test of understanding or 'seeing'. As they say...it's an opportunity ;-)

The feeling of it, which feels like an experiencer, is just the acute Awareness of it.

Do you notice that mental activity, insistent thoughts about 'my pain' tend to be louder and more prolific in your current situation? I certainly notice this when something really unpleasant happens.

Does the loudness and insistence of such thoughts make a real entity, 'me' appear?



love,

Jon

Hello Jon

Yes, I am aware, as you are, that the obsessive thoughts have been much louder, more prolific and therefore more noticeable since being in this situation which I presume made a feeling of a 'me' thought experiencing this pain.

I could have got caught up with thinking there was a 'me' entity here, but only temporarily, but being aware of what was happening and how this "I" entity was trying to appear, helped in challenging it and seeking your clarification which helped tremendously, as it appeared all was normal with the mind play in this sort of situation.

I'm seeing how tricky the mind really is and how it plays, and since yesterday and the understanding you so clearly gave which was seen, the mind has quietened a lot, not so much drama. Interesting and fear gone.

I am able to just about get out of bed; luckily, I have an electric one that sits up, so I can get up and move around for a short while, get food, drinks etc, then back to bed to rest the back. Sitting and getting out of bed is when the back is at its worst.

But it will pass like every experience!!

Love

Diane