The Gate

Hi Xain

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience and understanding. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The separate self is a conglomeration of self-reinforcing perpetuating thoughts.
It starts as the ‘I’ thought and doesn’t work except as an ‘additional’ thought-story, a bit like the the subtitles of a movie.
Subtitles don’t change or affect the movie, they are ‘included’, not separate from the movie.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference (if anything) from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I was very judgmental about others, almost about everything.
Now I look with interest and curiosity, there is a space and acceptance that everything is ok the way it is, knowing it couldn’t be different anyway.
There are moments, when the ‘I’ thought, mental pictures and sight don’t connect at all, which makes everything funny.
I definitely giggle a lot more than when i use to judge and swear ;)

Dear regards,

To question 2, could you perhaps give us an idea of your understanding of 'how it starts' in relation to growing up?
A young child perhaps? Education?

I know you said 'self-reinforcing thoughts' but in relation to 'what makes it work', can you give us your understanding of how the illusion seems to operate.
Why it is taken to be 'real' and how the illusion could be seen through?

Xain ♥

Hi Xain,

To question 2, could you perhaps give us an idea of your understanding of 'how it starts' in relation to growing up?
A young child perhaps? Education?

As ‘baby’, experience was undivided and attention or aliveness was free flowing, non focused.
With the rattle, smile and sweet words, this free flowing attention/ aliveness got pulled into focus. It learned to name and label focused attention, thereby seperation was born.
This separation quickly established with words, and by combining words into sentences and sentences into language, a world of diversity arose.
Continued Indoctrination by family, education and religion, this seperate self became more refined and more solid, and separation was finally established on all levels, including the actions of sight, sound ,touch and thought etc.

I know you said 'self-reinforcing thoughts' but in relation to 'what makes it work', (a)
can you give us your understanding of how the illusion seems to operate. (b)
Why it is taken to be 'real' and how the illusion could be seen through? (c)

(a) It works in relation to that self,’I’ (the already established thought story (above).
The ‘I’ thought gets continuously reinforced by the same labeling and naming process.
Language is dualistic , one label gets its meaning from its opposite, no hot without cold, so ‘you’ versus ‘me’, ‘here’ versus ‘there’, etc.
all re-establishing this original ‘separation’.

(b) ‘My understanding’ is exactly what the illusion is ;)
and thereby the way the illusion operates.
The ‘seeming operation’ is the thought process itself,

(c) It is taken to be real, as ‘attention’ or aliveness was continuously pulled and trained into focusing, and this focused attention (aliveness), by ‘been given’ a name, with all the later on added attributes takes itself for these labels. It happens in innocence, as attention is not separate from these labels. On completion the whole thing is literally a closed loop.
The illusion could be seen through by questioning this ‘I’, however as this questioning by one self always gets lost in a network of stories, its best to register on LU and ask to be guided ;)

I hope this will do.
To explain how an illusion works and operates, was like trying to fit square pegs in round holes,
and has been a non stop hell of thoughts and emotions the entire day, probably this partly as the 2 packet a day (smoke) stopped day b4 yesterday ago also,
but it showed how powerful this illusion can be.

Dearest regards,

Thanks for clarifying.

Here are the final three questions:

4) Was there something you looked into or something I may have mentioned that made you fully realise - Was there a moment where you 'tipped over' into realising 'no self'?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control as you understand it now. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Please give examples from experience if you can.

6) Do you have anything further you would like to add?

Xain ♥

Hi Xain,

4) Was there something you looked into or something I may have mentioned that made you fully realise - Was there a moment where you 'tipped over' into realising 'no self'?

In the starting excercices ,being clear there was no ‘I’ to be found, what was left was thought.
The whole thread was full of clear and uncompromising pointers, but the first time when I tipped was when you completely surprised me by (your blunt question) asking;
‘did you try Earl Grey’, which made it was clear that I was engaging a story only.
From there on you pointed out the stubborn weeds. There were more tipping over’s, but they were follow ups of this initial one.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control as you understand it now. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Please give examples from experience if you can.

‘I’, a thought, cannot decide, has no intention, or free will, or choice or control, these assumptions are just part of this perpetuating loop of thought claiming an ‘I’.
Nothing makes things happen ,things just happen.
Thoughts about ‘what and how’ 'makes something happening’ is always a description after the fact, or if before the fact in the form of decision etc, it is just a memory of the requirements of a past situation projected into a future situation.
E.g. I am naked in my home,I want a coffee thought arises, coffee is finished, I go out to buy coffee (natural follow up of things, no decision etc) , I put pants and shirt on, no decision, (memory) as last time when I went naked I found myself in the police station,
I look for nice shirt, the girl who sells coffee turns me on, and does like only plain colors. Not my decision. There is no responsibility in any of it, just a natural flow based upon former experience.

6) Do you have anything further you would like to add?

It was an incredible journey Xain, I am immensely grateful,
Even yesterday’s experience of confusion holds a new topic to be further revealed.
They don’t seem to stop.
I was going to post about it here, but remember--,and so keep it for later on.

No words could ever express, or come even close to this thankfulness i am feeling,
but thank you anyway ;)

Dearest regards,Swa

The girl who sells coffee turns me on

'Going through the gate', makes you more attractive to women you know!
(Hopefully at this stage, you'll appreciate my level of humour).
Did you get her number?

Thank you for your replies - Especially to Question 6. People wonder why we do this for free - Your response (thank you so much ♥) is the reason.

The other guides have looked at our discussion and are happy that you've 'seen' too, so this marks the end of this particular area of the guidance . . .
But of course, I'm happy to continue with you into the other stuff you wanted to look at. This will be better done in the 'further looking' forum - I can set us up a new thread in there.

For the time being, please let me know if you would like to be added to the Facebook LU groups - There are groups for New arrivals, general discussion, further looking and after-care if any of those interest you. If they do, please send me your Facebook name and page link in a private message and I'll get that sorted out for you (click the red name 'Xain' in the top right corner, and select 'Send private message').

In the mean-time, thank you so much for an enjoyable discussion.
See you over on the other side!

Xain ♥