Hello and thank you

[Yeshe]

Yes. No doer. It feels automatic when watching although the sense of volition and decision feels personal as does the ability to calm the thoughts through meditation . But what is actually experienced in any moment is a thought or sensation. Even the thought "let's meditate" or, during meditation, "return to the breath" for example. All thoughts. It is on analysis that it appears a sophisticated organism and with memory and habitual patterns the experience becomes personal. There is something also in the fact that "I" do not know what "you" are thinking or seeing that makes it feel personal and separate as well even though no I or doer can be found. Just thoughts. But personal separate ones!

[BleedIntoOne]

Hello Yeshe,

But what is actually experienced in any moment is a thought or sensation.

Is there a separate, individual self experiencing the thought or sensation, or are thoughts and sensations naturally happening, coming and going as they please?

Is there a gap between experiencer and experienced?

Can an idea experience anything?

Can a thought think and feel feelings?

It is on analysis that it appears a sophisticated organism and with memory and habitual patterns the experience becomes personal.

Personal to whom? Who exactly is the experience happening to?

I know these questions may seem repetitive, but it’s intentional. Keep looking. Keep questioning. Dig. Dig. Dig.

[Yeshe]

Hi Chris,

Is there a separate, individual self experiencing the thought or sensation, or are thoughts and sensations naturally happening, coming and going as they please?

* No separate self experiencing them. Thoughts and sensations come and go, but there is a narrative and there is a certain amount of will/ ability to influence the direction and volume of them. Question arises, what decides this? The experience of lots of mental and emotional activity is one of separation, i.e. it is not what you or my wife or the birds are experiencing. The sensation of wind on the skin however is one of connection. It is what the grass and trees feel too.

Is there a gap between experiencer and experienced?

* No, just thoughts and emotions arising. The “sense of self” arises simply as a label on the experience of separation that arises from heavy mental/ emotional activity as per above.

Can an idea experience anything?

* No.

Can a thought think and feel feelings?

* No.

It is on analysis that it appears a sophisticated organism and with memory and habitual patterns the experience becomes personal.

Personal to whom? Who exactly is the experience happening to?

* Personal as in separate - it is not happening to my wife or you or my daughter. Nobody else experiences the thoughts and sensations and emotions that this mind body is experiencing right now, so the experience of this complex activity feels unique and therefore separate.

[Yeshe]

General check-in.

* On investigation, no doer, no thinker.
* Lots of strong emotions at the moment.
* Lots of demands on the mind - young children, busy day, multitasking, etc.
* Lots of dominating thoughts.
* As a result of this, life feeling mostly “in the head”, separate, unique and personal.
* Even though no I found when looking, strong emotions/ thoughts feel very personal and separate; in the moment the label "I am really angry" feels more appropriate than "there is a sensation of anger" or "there are thoughts and sensations arising in awareness”; afterwards on reflection, the latter feels more appropriate. It is possible to see that thoughts and sensations merely arise and fall within awareness.
* Moments throughout the day of simple awareness or being, or presence: walking down a corridor, no walker; looking out of the window, no seer; listening to the children next door, no listener.
* When looking and asking, who is angry? who is stressed? who is depressed? who is excited? no separate experiencer can be found, but the experience feels very separate and individual from being so mind dominant.

Some queries residual in "that which decides focus of attention"; the ability to focus attention and steer the mind activity feels like conscious choice.

In experience right now the body is just sensations.

In experience right now the mind is just thoughts.

In experience right now emotions are thoughts and sensations.

Sensations and thoughts are phenomena that arise within awareness.

What else is there?

The demands of young family, life etc mean that life is almost exclusively experienced through the mind and its swarm of thoughts and feelings. Only tiny moments of awareness of awareness in any day. Hard to recognise being awareness when experience feels most like mind and hence identifies with it, or even if not "identified" with it, it’s just an experience of mind and thoughts and multitasking, experiencing the words far more than the page.

The identification as I is seen through again and again throughout the day, but the experience of a separate personal existence is strong because of the veil of thoughts and feelings through which life seems to be experienced nearly all of the time. Relentless!

This feels very much like a process of letting go by the mind still. Changes happening day by day. Moments.

Like the mind has to let go of a lifetime of habit and actually its core identity. Perhaps this just takes time and patience for this process to happen and there's an expectation of a suddenly transformation. Like moving house it takes a little while before it feels like home.

[BleedIntoOne]

Hello Yeshe,
You’re doing great. And anger can be a good thing as it helps fuel the fire of this process.

The identification as I is seen through again and again throughout the day, but the experience of a separate personal existence is strong because of the veil of thoughts and feelings through which life seems to be experienced nearly all of the time. Relentless!

We are not looking for an experience or an altered mind-state here but instead, a simple recognition of reality. That is all. The observation of normal life and doing everyday activities as you’ve been doing is great because everything already is as it is, always. One’s true nature is the simplest thing there is, ever-present, but it gets lost underneath everything that is heaped on us (parenting, working, and so forth). And from this, confusion happens. All you need to do is let go and look. Let go of all beliefs and expectations and just look at what is directly in front of you right now. Is Yeshe doing the looking, or is looking happening effortlessly, naturally? Is the totality of life, from the wind to the body to the tress happening effortlessly, naturally?

Here is the Bahiya Sutra. Please really look through this lens, see what it points to, see how everything looks through it.

In the seen, there is only the seen,
in the heard, there is only the heard,
in the sensed, there is only the sensed,
in the cognized, there is only the cognized.
Thus you should see that
indeed there is no thing here;
this, Bahiya, is how you should train yourself.
Since, Bahiya, there is for you
in the seen, only the seen,
in the heard, only the heard,
in the sensed, only the sensed,
in the cognized, only the cognized,
and you see that there is no thing here,
you will therefore see that
indeed there is no thing there.
As you see that there is no thing there,
you will see that
you are therefore located neither in the world of this,
nor in the world of that,
nor in any place
betwixt the two.
This alone is the end of suffering.


Take your time with it and write what you noticed, what looks different.

[Yeshe]

One’s true nature is the simplest thing there is, ever-present, but it gets lost underneath everything that is heaped on us (parenting, working, and so forth).

Yes, this is the current experience. Even seeing there is no self; even recognising that there is just awareness of thoughts, sensations, etc. the experience is still primarily mind based which feels separate, not flowing, not life being life.

All you need to do is let go and look. Let go of all beliefs and expectations and just look at what is directly in front of you right now.

Yes, when looking, there is just awareness. Awareness of sensations, thoughts, emotions. Not identification with them. Looking occurs. Have let go of expectations of bells and whistles and trumpets. What is, is awareness. Very simple, very ordinary, no big deal, very known, here, always, but experienced and known only in tiny fragments throughout the day.

Is Yeshe doing the looking, or is looking happening effortlessly, naturally? Is the totality of life, from the wind to the body to the tress happening effortlessly, naturally?

Yeshe not doing the looking, but nothing happening effortlessly! Each day is exhausting. There are but the barest moments of recognition of being awareness, the barest moments when the mind is not engaged 100%, feels more like 200%, on demands coming into it. The rest of the time it is just head head head. The head experience feels like life even when known to be and experienced as just thoughts, emotions, sensations arising in awareness and not a separate self. There is nothing effortless about this experience of life at all.

In fact, as reading what you’ve written, there’s a real anger rising up. “Right, there’s no self, that’s clear. There is awareness of stuff happening. That is clear. If “I” am anything “I” am this awareness. That is clear. But day by day the experience is just head noise. Relentless and all consuming. Same as it ever was."

Here is the Bahiya Sutra. Please really look through this lens, see what it points to, see how everything looks through it. Take your time with it and write what you noticed, what looks different.

The experience is recognised. If I calm down from writing the above and look, look past the anger and racing thoughts, then this resonates. It is known to be true and experienced to be so, but only in fleeting moments, in the breaks in the noise. Perversely it seems to require effort to step back from the noise, or focus, or remember, to recognise being the awareness of the noise, and is always retrospectively.

Yes, awareness is ever present. Yes, there must be awareness of the noise to know there is noise, so it is present here too. Present everywhere. But the experience is still the same as always - just a crazy head banging out the same old tunes that dominate the rest of experience.

You may have gathered there's a real energy of frustration permeating everything!

[BleedIntoOne]

Hello Yeshe,
So it looks like you want your experience to change, but the thing is, while the view does indeed change after truly seeing through the illusion of a separate self (and not just on an intellectual level), does that mean the experience itself is going to change? Will anger and frustration cease to be? Why should the experience change? Who should change the experience?

Regarding awareness, it seems that if it’s not experienced for more than a moment, then frustration, or disappoint, or perhaps both arises for you. The thing is, awareness is always right here, right now, whether it is directly experienced or not. How could it be otherwise?

What we’re trying to do here is look directly without any an expectation for anything to change. It’s like taking off a pair of sunglasses. The scenery doesn’t change, but it looks different, clearer.

So, please answer the following so we can reassess where we are at:

What should be different?
What do you hope will happen?
What do you not want to happen?

Please write without holding anything back.

Hoping this finds you well and that you’ve been having a nice weekend.

[Yeshe]

Chris, thanks. Let me sit with this and let is settle.

[BleedIntoOne]

Yes, yes, of course Yeshe.

[Yeshe]

Hi Chris,
So, first a whole load of anger came spilling out. Words and words and words. Mind shit. So, pausing. It feels as though the mind is really quite enjoying this gig, using the fight as a way to hold on tight and create even more of a sense of identity. It feels as though giving vent to all that frustration in words doesn't help.

So, in summary, this is where "I am" right now :

What should be different?

Gut response: This. Everything. This experience defines the seeking. And is why there has been so much seeking all my life from drugs to mysticism and round and round. The experience of living in the mind is disconnected, separate, not alive. It is unpleasant (all labels of course); it feels divorced from what is happening in any moment, from the present, from awareness, from being; it is exhausting and relentless.

Knowing: Nothing should be different except the mind’s ability to accept what is and stop fighting with itself and recognise that it is being itself.

This non acceptance is the source of frustration. And expectations. Or perhaps frustration in the gap between the desired state of acceptance and the actual state of resistance. “I” should be able to accept things as they are; or rather, seeing directly that there is no I, this mind should now be able to see it doesn’t need to keep the illusion of self up, keep this noise up, so why doesn’t it chill the fuck out? If it was a guest at my party I’d kick it out of the house.

What do you hope will happen?

Acceptance of what is, no more struggle, no more resistance, no more fighting. The end of seeking. Just being. Present. Alive. Life.

What do you not want to happen?

More of the same.

[BleedIntoOne]

Hello Yeshe,
As always, thank you for your honestly and willingness to be vulnerable with your feelings/experiences throughout this process. I wanted to revisit a section of the LU FAQ’s quickly, which says:

This is not a way to escape your daily life. This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special. This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness. This isn’t a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts. This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge. This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts. This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person. This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, it not magical or mystical. This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness. This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings. This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I. This is not a solution to problems in relationships. This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases. This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, getting rid of thoughts. This is not a way to make the story of you disappear. This is not about convincing you of anything. This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things. This is not a self improvement program.

So all that is happening in this process is pointing towards seeing directly through the illusion of any separate self. It’s obvious you understand it on an intellectual level, and have certainly had glimpses it in experience, but it looks like there’s still a lot of expectations about what this process should be doing, or changing, in life. So please reread the previous paragraph and ask yourself if you want to continue to investigate.

Please know that I am still 100% fully committed to this process if you are, and believe it is absolutely worth it.

Sending love.

[Yeshe]

Hi Chris, I'm confused. What are you expecting? I can find no self nor sense of self when looking. Just thoughts, sensations, etc.. Awareness of these. Life as it always has been but knowing there is no central commander. Nothing experienced differently. Perhaps awareness is just manifesting here as a particularly stressed and head based body-mind that spends most of its time in the mind! Also 100% committed to this process.

[BleedIntoOne]

Hello Yeshe,
No expectations here and I’m glad that you’re committed too! I appreciate walking with you in this journey.

The FAQ section was shared in relation to much of the frustration and expectations you’ve shared over your last several posts. It was just a simple reminder about this process and what it does/does not do—a friendly nudge to continue doing your best to drop any and all expectations.

Life as it always has been but knowing there is no central commander.

How does it feel to see that there is no center?

[Yeshe]

Hi Chris,
thanks for the reply. Good to have a nudge there. Please do call me on anything. So.

"Life as it always has been but knowing there is no central commander."

How does it feel to see that there is no center?

Obvious when looked at.
Ordinary.
So what?
Nothing is different. Same old busy head, same emotions, frustrations, stress, exhaustion, etc. Awareness of these thoughts, sensations, etc. as noted.
And awareness of being primarily absorbed by thoughts, emotions, etc. to the exclusion of whatever else is happening.

There is clearly something which wants to change this. And which does not want to accept simply what is. It doesn't feel as simple as the mind labelling some things "pleasant/ enjoyable" and some things "unpleasant/ undesirable". The act of being absorbed in the mind feels exclusive to what is, rather than present, so it feels as though it has different characteristics to other phenomena.
(I accept that changing what is, is not the remit here! But looking into the source of this resistance feels like it is)

So the mind wanting to change the mind? The mind still identifying with wanting to change things, with the internal argument, with being the seeker, which gives it identity? Not sure, jury’s out!
When looking, seeing there is no self.
Recognition that awareness is just aware of all this to-ing and fro-ing, which falls under the label “resistance to what is”, but not finding a self that is resisting.
Awareness also aware of the dissatisfaction with this and frustration.
And awareness also are that this is a process and maybe has its own momentum so patience.
And so wondering if this is simply awareness being aware of reality as it is, and that this is just how reality is through this particular body-mind!

Although it can be seen there is no central commander awareness does seem centred on this body-mind and limited to its sensory horizons. So awareness still feels personal and limited.

Throughout the day there are periods of mind absorption as noted (dominant thinking, emotions, etc. - being “in the head”) and periods of being present to what is. The former denoted by only being aware of the activity afterwards and the latter by being present to what is happening as it is happening. These occur in the gaps between mind dominance - walking down a corridor, playing on the trampoline, in the bathroom, walking the dog. They feel alive and real.

These are moments when it is naturally really clear that there is nobody here without even looking. “I” (this awareness) no more know the thoughts that come through this head than the words that will come out of my son or wife’s mouth. All are objects appearing equally in awareness. Thoughts are another type of phenomena. They just seem to be noisier and more dominant and more common than any other phenomena!

As I’m writing this I realise that the mind is getting caught up in analysis again, enjoying the definition it gives to it, the sense of identity… using the mind to undo the mind has the danger of indulging the mind in its relish for argument. This one anyway!

[Yeshe]

There’s something else in here Chris. Reading this back, and some of my previous posts, there is a sense that the mind is indulging itself in painting a picture of how dominant it is. How difficult it is being in this head. There is much more attention given to this in writing than the moments of presence which occur throughout the day. I am sure there is something in this defence mechanism in the mind not willing to let go of some of its control and identity - it has been a loyal soldier for so much of my life and thought and analysed me through some terrible times. Hmm.

So this reaffirms that the solution is not in the mind, that when looking, things are simple and clear; when thinking we enter a world of debate and thought.