Letting go

[Bananafish]

Hi Rishi!

Sorry for the late reply ...

It starts with my basic judgement of liking and disliking which creates the illusion. With judgement comes the judge and the duality of the observer and the observed.

When you say "my" basic judgement, does it mean that there is a
person who judges?

I did not expect it to be so simple as this :) .. The movement between here and now and the thoughts with its illusion of 'I" as the reality of existence was something I had not 'seen' experientially.

Do thoughts occur here and now or not?

Awareness follows this pathway closely until interrupted by a "This is not true" thought - after which it moves back to here and now.

By "Awareness follows this pathway," do you mean that awareness is the subject
and the pathway is the object to be followed?

There is no "I" in here and now - so there is no free will. Within thoughts, choice and control are again illusions as they are preprogrammed conditioned triggers (this part is inferred). But there is a 'sort of' of choice though. A choice of dropping what is not true. This is the second wave that comes up after the attention has been hijacked by the thought stream which says 'this is not true'. I can sense a subtle choice in triggering this second wave - after which the attention settles back into silence - in here and now.

Can there anything other than here and now?

What is it that chooses?

Thanks a lot for guiding me through this enquiry. I am grateful to you and Libration Unleashed :)

Thanks Rishi, I truly appreciate your sincerity in LOOKing. :)

Bananafish

[Rishi]

Greetings Bananafish!

I decided to take a few days off from the pressure of replying back and the clarity came as soon as I did :)

Here are my responses:

It starts with my basic judgement of liking and disliking which creates the illusion. With judgement comes the judge and the duality of the observer and the observed.

When you say "my" basic judgement, does it mean that there is a
person who judges?

Judgement etc are all contained within thoughts."My" in my earlier response was meant to represent the illusory "I" which lies within the content of thought. To word it correctly perhaps I should use the term "Judgement happens and therefore reinforces the illusion of 'I'". What triggers this "happening" ? well the past judgements that are stored somewhere.

I did not expect it to be so simple as this :) .. The movement between here and now and the thoughts with its illusion of 'I" as the reality of existence was something I had not 'seen' experientially.

Do thoughts occur here and now or not?

Thoughts occur here an now. Not too different from sneeze happening here and now :)
Everything happens here and now. Things cannot happen (now) in past or future.

Awareness follows this pathway closely until interrupted by a "This is not true" thought - after which it moves back to here and now.

By "Awareness follows this pathway," do you mean that awareness is the subject
and the pathway is the object to be followed?

If I am standing in front of a lake - totally in the present - and I sneeze. My eyes close momentarily and there is a rush of complex sensations that build up to a climax and then it is gone. All that happened within awareness. Awareness was not 'seeing'' (literally) at the climax of the sneeze because my eyes were closed. So similarly the awareness follows a pathway in the thought experience which is one of the things among several others within awareness.

There is no "I" in here and now - so there is no free will. Within thoughts, choice and control are again illusions as they are preprogrammed conditioned triggers (this part is inferred). But there is a 'sort of' of choice though. A choice of dropping what is not true. This is the second wave that comes up after the attention has been hijacked by the thought stream which says 'this is not true'. I can sense a subtle choice in triggering this second wave - after which the attention settles back into silence - in here and now.

Can there anything other than here and now?

What is it that chooses?

I think I have answered these earlier - but for the sake of completion, Everything happens here and now.

Regarding what chooses ? the answer I will go with is "Choice Happens" :)

With Best Regards,
Rishi

[Bananafish]

Hi Rishi! Sorry again for the late reply.

Judgement etc are all contained within thoughts."My" in my earlier response was meant to represent the illusory "I" which lies within the content of thought. To word it correctly perhaps I should use the term "Judgement happens and therefore reinforces the illusion of 'I'". What triggers this "happening" ? well the past judgements that are stored somewhere.

Good. :)

Thoughts occur here an now. Not too different from sneeze happening here and now :)
Everything happens here and now. Things cannot happen (now) in past or future.

Great observation!

If I am standing in front of a lake - totally in the present - and I sneeze. My eyes close momentarily and there is a rush of complex sensations that build up to a climax and then it is gone. All that happened within awareness. Awareness was not 'seeing'' (literally) at the climax of the sneeze because my eyes were closed. So similarly the awareness follows a pathway in the thought experience which is one of the things among several others within awareness.

This needs elaboration. It sounds like an intellectual explanation or theory.
It's not clear.

Do "my eyes" exist?

Do awareness "follow" anything? Then, are awareness and what is followed
separate?

I think I have answered these earlier - but for the sake of completion, Everything happens here and now.

Regarding what chooses ? the answer I will go with is "Choice Happens" :)

Nice! Do you feel you are living that fact now, or is there still gap between
the ordinary life and the understanding?


Warmest regards,

Bananafish

[Rishi]

Hi Bananafish,

I was just thinking of you when this popped up :)

This needs elaboration. It sounds like an intellectual explanation or theory.
It's not clear.

Do "my eyes" exist?
Do awareness "follow" anything? Then, are awareness and what is followed
separate?

I feel we have covered most of the aspects except perhaps the distinction between awareness and attention ?

Everything is contained in awareness. It does not go anywhere. All things rise and fall in awareness. But Attention (which is also contained in awareness) does move and change its texture.I have been struggling the nomenclature of these two - awareness vs attention. So when sneeze happens (I am being cautious of the words :)), the attention gets limited in terms of senses that are engaged. But all this happens within awareness.

I think I have answered these earlier - but for the sake of completion, Everything happens here and now.

Regarding what chooses ? the answer I will go with is "Choice Happens" :)

Nice! Do you feel you are living that fact now, or is there still gap between
the ordinary life and the understanding?

There is more awareness of the conditioned responses in general - including the play of the I thought. There is more ease, gratitude and surrender. That is all I can say :)

Best Regards,
Rishi

[Bananafish]

Hello Rishi! :)

I feel we have covered most of the aspects except perhaps the distinction between awareness and attention ?

Everything is contained in awareness. It does not go anywhere. All things rise and fall in awareness. But Attention (which is also contained in awareness) does move and change its texture.I have been struggling the nomenclature of these two - awareness vs attention. So when sneeze happens (I am being cautious of the words :)), the attention gets limited in terms of senses that are engaged. But all this happens within awareness.

It might only be a tiny thing regarding expression, but
why do you say "All things rise and fall in awareness." instead of
"All things rise and fall"? For me, this word "awareness" doesn't need to be put
to express reality. Could you elaborate?

There is more awareness of the conditioned responses in general - including the play of the I thought. There is more ease, gratitude and surrender. That is all I can say :)

Wonderful, Rishi. :)
Please bear with my questioning for bit more ...

[Rishi]

Greetings Bananafish

It might only be a tiny thing regarding expression, but
why do you say "All things rise and fall in awareness." instead of
"All things rise and fall"? For me, this word "awareness" doesn't need to be put
to express reality. Could you elaborate?

I feel it is an important distinction.The 'In" here is not really the opposite of "out" :) ..

In reality all things that rise, fall and beyond rising or falling are all part of the invisible fabric - what is.

For me experientially, this is not a 24 7 direct experience. The attention wavers though illusive contractions now and then. And therefore there is indication of a illusory "state' which "appears' to be distinct from the 'state' of contracted attention.

When attention would rest in silence always - it wont be a state anymore. Just rising and falling will be the experience - perhaps that is the experience you refer to :)

With Regards,
Rishi

[Bananafish]

Hello, Rishi. :)

I feel it is an important distinction.The 'In" here is not really the opposite of "out" :) ..

In reality all things that rise, fall and beyond rising or falling are all part of the invisible fabric - what is.

For me experientially, this is not a 24 7 direct experience. The attention wavers though illusive contractions now and then. And therefore there is indication of a illusory "state' which "appears' to be distinct from the 'state' of contracted attention.

When attention would rest in silence always - it wont be a state anymore. Just rising and falling will be the experience - perhaps that is the experience you refer to :)

It IS always silent for everyone including you,
silent in the middle of busyness, but sometimes it doesn't seem to be.

That's the trick ...


Thanks, Rishi. I feel I have no further questions for you.
I'll have my fellow guides to read our dialogue, and ask if there's anything
they want to clarify.

Warm regards,

Bananafish

[Rishi]

Thank YOU Bananafish for the guidance though this enquiry !

With Regards,
Rishi

[Bananafish]

Hi Rishi!

I'm so glad to let you know that you've crashed the gate!
No more questions from other guides. :)

I'll send you a PM, so please take a look ...

Bananafish