NoLabel requests a guide

[NoLabel]

Hey Sandra!
How are you?

I am almost settling in the new house. I didn't have time to work on this at all, so I feel I am back again.
Many questions and many doubts have come on the mind again.

If there is no actual I, could things be any different than what they are?
Do you have control over what is going on?

I catch myself trying to observe and avoid the old habits. But that means that I try to have control on myself. But if we have no control of what is going on, so there is no possibility to improve ourselves?
We should continue doing all the stuff that at the end is not very pleasing for our living? I can accept that I have no control over life, but it’s too hard to accept that I have no control over me. If I can’t improve myself, then what is the point of all this?

I have also noticed that when I try to look the moment that a decision is happening, no decision is been made. While there is observation I can see thoughts come and go (if there is a dilemma I can see a decision of yes or no come and go, but none of these decisions is made until I let it go, and then afterwards I can see that this decision was made). But while there is observation, no decision can be made. Is this correct?

There are many questions in the mind (and that’s also a reason I haven’t replied earlier, because I didn’t know what exactly to reply) but I thought to start with this.
Beside this all is going pretty well but I can see a BIG “I” that has returned…

Hug
Nolabel.

[Canfora]

Hi NoLabel!

Glad to know that things are settling.
All those questions are in the way of having a look. Maybe you should ask yourself why you're thinking about all this matters instead of looking. Are you afraid of what may happen if you see there is no self?

I can see a BIG “I” that has returned…

If you can see it, you can describe it. You can even take a picture of it, no?
How does this I look like - what is its shape, its format, its texture?
Where is this I exactly?

Hug,
Sandra

[NoLabel]

Hi Sandra,

All those questions are in the way of having a look. Maybe you should ask yourself why you're thinking about all this matters instead of looking. Are you afraid of what may happen if you see there is no self?

I don’t think I am afraid of what may happen if I look. I would love to see completely clear that there is no self and accept everything as it is. I am tired of the mind analyzing everything and the self to be identified with those thoughts.

NoLabel wrote:I can see a BIG “I” that has returned…

Sandra wrote: If you can see it, you can describe it. You can even take a picture of it, no?
How does this I look like - what is its shape, its format, its texture?
Where is this I exactly?

I meant that the thoughts have returned. “I” = self identified with thoughts. Thoughts that block the view of looking.

PS: How is it possible to forget so easily? I feel again in zero point. Many times lately I feel l want to quit from all this. But I know that even quitting I will not stop searching. Especially now that I had those glimpses of “looking”.

Hug,
NoLabel.

[Canfora]

Hi NoLabel!

I know this can be a frustrating process. You're doing fine. I'm serious!

I would love to see completely clear that there is no self and accept everything as it is.

Forget no self for a moment. You're assuming there is a self. So look to this self. What do you see?

Hug,
Sandra

[NoLabel]

Hi Sandra,

I know this can be a frustrating process. You're doing fine. I'm serious!

Thanks, I guess I needed that.

Forget no self for a moment. You're assuming there is a self. So look to this self. What do you see?

I see my face. I see my thoughts, I see my feelings. Maybe all these happen on their own, but they are real.
What is the point of this? In which way your life, for example changed after you have seen it?

What is here and now at this moment? There is silence, there is the sound of electricity, a car is passing by. The mind searching for what else it can hear. The fingers that are typing all this, a light headache, a dog is barking, the light above the screen. An expectation that while I am writing all these something will change.

Blank. No feelings, no thoughts, no interest for doing anything particular. Dislike for this moment. It’s boring and I don’t like to spend my days like this. But until I finish this I can’t enjoy anything. There is an expectation in the future. That when I will see this “invisible gate” I will be able to live again. To live more vivid and more relaxed. And until this happen I am on standby for life. I am not enjoying life. I wait first to really see and then to enjoy.

What changed in your life after you saw? I feel less relaxed after all these. Maybe on the past I was drifting by the mind but I was happier and more relaxed. I have heard that for other people after the “looking” things are lighter. For me is heavier. I am more negative. And usually I am a positive person. Life sucks like this.

This is the situation right now. If thoughts come on their own, how thoughts can be like this? If I don’t produce these thoughts, if life acts and think on its own…. It sucks… It doesn’t make any sense.

I was not in this situation an hour ago. This analysis started while I was trying to just look and describe what is here and now.

Usually in my life, when I am in a situation that I don’t like, I push a reset button and I change it with something. I go swimming. I take my car and drive listening to nice music, I see some friends. Anything. And most of the times it works. I leave the situation I didn’t like before and I get into a new one. In this way I can tell that I have control. If I accept that I have no control, I should stay in this situation that I don’t like and just suffer observing it?

Again, this is the situation right now. Maybe it will be different in an hour or tomorrow, but maybe you can see something there that is helpful. (I tried to be as honest I can be without filtering anything).

Thanks a lot.
Hug,
NoLabel

[Canfora]

Hi NoLabel,

Thank you for your honesty. This is a list of what LU is not, maybe it will be helpful:

"Throughout the years our many guides have discovered that one of the major obstacles to the direct, clear seeing of what is already magnificently the case is a thick layer of expectations and narrative about a self’s journey towards enlightenment, built up by years and years of seeking. Getting these expectations out in the open and out of the way is an important first step. Below is a list explaining what the LU process is not:

This is not a way to escape your daily life.
This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
This isn’t a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts.
This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, it not magical or mystical.
This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.
This is not a solution to problems in relationships.
This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, getting rid of thoughts.
This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
This is not about convincing you of anything.
This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
This is not a self improvement program."

I have heard that for other people after the “looking” things are lighter. For me is heavier. I am more negative. And usually I am a positive person. Life sucks like this.

Negativeness and heaviness can become stronger. When you believe you're a self, this believe can "cushion" or hide lots of negative stuff. And when the believe starts to get shattered, all this stuff can come to the surface. Rawness can be more intensely felt. Are you afraid that this will be permanent? Have you ever entered a permanent state?

Anyway, I can see you're still caught in the story of you and using the story as a blocker. The story is in the way of acceptance, of seeing - and by acceptance I don't mean the dropping of the negative stuff. I mean allowing things to be as they are, even allowing the resistance to how they are. It sucks, yes, but resisting the resistance sucks even more. It's adding salt to the wound. Life is also the negative stuff. No? What does that have to do with the seeing if you are a separate entity or not?

Hug,
Sandra

[NoLabel]

Hi Sandra,

Thanks again. Yes, I had read this before and I read it again. Maybe some times the mind goes to these expectations, but my main goal is to be on here and now. That’s why I am here for.

Are you afraid that this will be permanent? Have you ever entered a permanent state?

No, I am not afraid that this will permanent. Every day is different. Most of the times states are changing even faster. As I told you, all these came up as I was trying to look that particular moment. But generally, lately, when I try to look is not very pleasant because I feel I can’t really look and I am disappointed and I doubt about this (even I have seen it’s working, the character is still so strong that doubts come very often) So, I don’t look every day and maybe this is another problem.

No, the fear that this will be permanent it’s not my main problem. I guess one problem is that I have become impatient to see all this and relax. (I know that this is not the right way, I am just telling you what I discover by looking and observing).

I think another problem Sandra is that when I try to look I catch myself trying to observe. And when you “try” to observe (so you are trying to be the observer) you can’t be at here and now. I have combined “looking” with observation, and this observation does not allow me to really look. Does this make sense to you?
So in this way, things have become a little bit complicated in the mind and this is an obstacle on the way to truly see what is here and now.

Anyway, I can see you're still caught in the story of you and using the story as a blocker

Yes, you are very right. One of the stories of “me” is this observer. But beside this, (which is my point of view and I don’t really trust it right now, :) ) what is your direction to make this story of me to stop? To make this swift on the point of view and place it out of my story. Most of the times in my experience, examples are the best way to understand something. Can you give me an example about the story of me and how I can stop looking through the eyes of the character?

Hug,
NoLabel.

[Canfora]

Hi NoLabel,

I see you have some ideas, some expectations, about what being here and now is. Are you saying that what is happening right now can be or not be happening here and now? How is that possible? Can you escape the here and now? How do you do that?

Can you give me an example about the story of me and how I can stop looking through the eyes of the character?

The story is in the believe in the concepts I, you and character. If there is no you, how can you stop looking through the eyes of the character? Are you inside the body looking outside? If there is an observer here, where is this observer? Squeezed between the eyes and the brain?


Hug,
Sandra

[NoLabel]

Hi Sandra,

The story is in the believe in the concepts I, you and character. If there is no you, how can you stop looking through the eyes of the character?

So, the character exists but “I” am not this character. I have no control over the character. If this is correct it makes sense. All this time I could see that I am not anything of this but I was thinking that also the character doesn’t exist.
Tell me if this correct so I can work on this even further to tell you what is going on.

Hug,
NoLabel

[Canfora]

Hi NoLabel,

I wrote that "character" is a concept. “I,” “my,”, “mine” and "character" are simply concepts (labels) that don’t have an actual existence in our experience. These concepts are useful in a social context, but understanding that they are simply concepts is very important, because if you believe in them, they distort the way you perceive reality.

There are labels for objects: “table,” “car,” “body,” “thought,” “feeling,” “fear,” and so on. There are labels for activities: “I breathe,” “I cough,” “I scratch an itch,” “I run,” “I feel.” There is an object doing an action, according to the way that language is composed. It’s an assumption that has never been questioned. If there were no language, there would not be an “I.” It’s a label.

You can work in seeing the difference between concepts that point to things that can be experienced (example: sound, water, sun, sweet, cold) and concepts that point to things that can't be experienced (example: Santa Claus, Batman, university, the Equator).

The “I” does not exist except in language. Have a look, can you see an I? If you can't, what does that tell you about the existence of such thing?

Hug,
Sandra

[NoLabel]

Hi Sandra,
I think we have lost in translation and language. This is the way “I” see it. There is a character called “NoLabel”. He is a part of the fictional reality that society has adopted, the “I” reality. He has created “his” world in this “I” society (his relationships, his ideas, his work, his habits etc). Nothing of this is real but for him it is. Hehehehe.

I don’t like to play with words so I will use the word “I”, to tell you what the understanding of this is. The character continues to live his life, his drama, his concepts but nothing of this is me. I am a traveler inside this body. I cannot find “me” nowhere in this body or in this brain but there is the understanding that … oh it’s too hard to explain it with words. … The last days things got lighter and I can see some things clearer. Something that I have forgot many many years now. Many many memories have come on the surface about how life used to be when I was at here and now. (The only difference from back then and now is that then I was living in present by accident. Everybody was calling me lucky but I knew that it was not luck. I just had no expectations and I was enjoying living this life. It just happened. I didn’t know what I was doing differently and I didn’t care. When there was an understanding about the character I could see him like starting in a play. When something happened and I started to get stuck on character I didn’t know what was going wrong.. Now I can see that I just started to get identified by the character).

So, I agree 100% that with no language the “I” can’t exist. I is a creation of the language. The monkey doesn’t think with “I”. It just acts. It’s a form of life experienced through a monkey. The same with all animals, so the same with people as well. Without ‘I” we could experience what is going on here and now. Future is an expectation of the mind. Past is a memory of the mind. They only exist inside the mind as a thought. We can’t find them nowhere in life except in thoughts.

I can see now again how the character acts, what are his beliefs, his theories, his dramas, his anxieties. All are a thought that doesn’t exist on present. He is just identified with this “I”. “Me” that writes to you all these right now it’s not a conscience, it’s not a watcher, it’s not the higher self etc… The only way I can put it in words it’s the “realization”.

Life is a tourist in this body-character.

Big Hug,
NoLabel

[Canfora]

Hi NoLabel,

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by character. Aren't all characters a fiction? If they are, how can you be one?

Hug,
Sandra

[NoLabel]

Hi Sandra,
I am sorry for the delay, but many things have been going on lately.

You can work in seeing the difference between concepts that point to things that can be experienced (example: sound, water, sun, sweet, cold) and concepts that point to things that can't be experienced (example: Santa Claus, Batman, university, the Equator).

Yes, this is a very good exercise. It simplifies a lot of stuff. There are so many concepts that had been created by the language that so few have been left to be experienced by the senses. I tried it for a few stuff and it is unbelievable how many things we don’t notice as we have been programmed to run mostly on the intellectual part. I have noticed that I don’t really feel something when I am touching it. For example, the texture of a cup, its temperature, the smell of the coffee and so on. We have put labels to everything and these labels have determined our experience. I wonder how we would live in jungle, before language had appeared. To be guided only by the instincts and the senses on here and now.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by character. Aren't all characters a fiction? If they are, how can you be one?

By character I mean the thought of Nolabel. The fictional person that it filters everything as its own. The character that he thinks he is the controller of “his” life.
There is looking, hearing, feeling, observing, thinking etc. And then this “I” pops up that dresses everything with the label of “I”.

How this had begun? I can imagine human species to live naturally like all animals, guided by the present. To act by simply doing and not thinking that “I” do it. The cat don’t think I will scratch. It just scratches. How we ended up guided by this “I”?
Maybe its our ability to plan the future. I don’t know.

I can see clearly what they mean by duality. It is the life simply living in every single being and it is the “I” that pops up thinking that “I” live “My” life.

Even though I can understand slowly this duality the “I” is still strong. It still tries to analyze things from times to times.

Another thing that confuses me is this:
I can see a difference between instincts and logic. Many times the instincts lead us to one direction and the logic to the exact opposite. If there is no one that can decide between these two… the conflict is created by the “I”? And if this is true, that means that the instincts have always right?

Hug,
Nolabel

[Canfora]

Hi NoLabel,

Even though I can understand slowly this duality the “I” is still strong. It still tries to analyze things from times to times.

What is this I that is still strong and tries to analyze things?
Can you give me an example of how this happens?

Another thing that confuses me is this:
I can see a difference between instincts and logic. Many times the instincts lead us to one direction and the logic to the exact opposite. If there is no one that can decide between these two… the conflict is created by the “I”? And if this is true, that means that the instincts have always right?

It confuses you because instead of looking to how decisions happen you're thinking about it :)
How does a decision happen? Have a look (or even better, many looks!).
How do you decide what to dress in the morning or what to eat for dinner?
How do you decide the moment you will get out of bed in the morning?
How do you decide what to write as an answer?
How do you decide if you are going left or right?

Pick a decision - it doesn't need to be one that I have suggested - and describe what happens. Can you find the exact moment that leads to the decision making? What do you see deciding? Is it you?

Hug,
Sandra

[NoLabel]

Hi Sandra,

How does a decision happen? Have a look (or even better, many looks!).

A thought just pops up and automatically I move to some direction. That happened just now. Lately I am thinking of quitting smoking. I was in the kitchen and a thought of cigarette crossed my mind. Automatically another thought, the image of a tea came into the mind, and an excitement followed. So I grabbed the box with the tea, without even realize it.

All these I realized afterwards. I was not trying to do the exercise.

I can’t find an actual decider when a decision is happening but still there is this strong feeling that “I” decide it.

Many - many thoughts are crossing my mind now about what to do next. To watch movie, to work on some of my projects, to go to bed… Sometimes it is like the mind is thinking something and I am doing something completely different without even realizing it. There is no calm in the head. Why there is no calm in the head? Because I am thinking that “I” am all these thoughts. Thoughts just come and go.

What is this I that is still strong and tries to analyze things?
Can you give me an example of how this happens?

It is like I don’t really believe it. I can see clearly aaaall these thoughts parade in front of me, coming from nowhere, and I still can’t believe it 100%. So, I go back at searching and analyzing it again and again. And I am making circles like this.

I have noticed something else. A thought is triggered by the senses. The eye saw a brochure. Automatically, my hand was reaching to pick it up and see what it is. And as we have been identified with the “I” (the controller) we think that “I” saw the brochure, “I” thought to pick it up, and “I” am reading it right now.

Another thing I have noticed is this: After every raw experience that is happening, right afterwards there is an analysis about it. And I think “I” analyze it!!! That’s why I am back and forth, back and forth. Maybe that’s what creates a gap into the raw experience. I think I am the thought after the experience.. It is like I think I am the analyzer or the observer of every single act. And all of this it’s because of the filter of the “I”.

PS: I will keep looking into how a decision happens. I just wrote to you what came to me right after I read your post.

Hug,
NoLabel.