Truth for All

[jomarie7]

Hi Jon,

Its true that ‘visions’ happens when I am peaceful. From what I can see, even though I am not peaceful sometimes, truth remains no matter what appears to happen. Analogically, I like to think that I am the sky that allows all kinds of clouds to pass by. In all shapes, texture and colors. Everything that has a beginning has an end in the dualistic world. Yet something within, or should I say, without me, remains. Yet there is no words to describe it.

When I listen to Tony Parsons for example. I can comprehend what he says intellectually. But I have to admit that in the middle of chaos, I feel lost.

You are absolutely right, stress (and other sensations) happen without a 'me', but it seems that there is 'someone' that is 'stressed'! Don't resist stressful feelings but if possible notice them, recognise them as sensations. Let them flow freely or, if that isn't happening, take a look behind the stressful sensations to see what is there.

It could be imagined that 'peace' is achevable by a 'self'. But since there is no self, how can 'peace' be 'achieved'?

That is not at all as negative as it may sound, by the way. Seeing through the assumption that there really is a 'me' behind it all 'suffering stess' leaves a situation in which sensations are definitely happening but not 'to' anyone. Do you see?

OMG! Yes

And it may be that the stressful sensations are telling you that something could do with changing? They can be a kind of allarm bell.

Jon, do you mean like changing something in my life situation here? Or changing my perception? The idea of changing seems to me that I can choose something. Can I realy change anything other than maybe my way of perceiving life? But even that. It must happen by itself like the rest. Yes? No?

There is often an expecataion that seeing no self should immediately equate to 'peace no matter what' or maybe 'all thoughts should completely stop' or maybe there should be a heavenly fanfare. All we can do at LU is point the way to look. Then the client sees that there really is no self. How that will be experienced cannot be predicted but is usually not what had been expected. How does this sit with you?

Yes Jon, makes perfect sense. I can no longer deny that everything IS. The rest is imaginary. And ‘I’ have a wild imagination ;). That is the tiger within me…like in the song ‘The eye of a tiger’ I think it is. Or ‘Your gonna hear me roar’. ‘I’ roar a lot ☺.

The experiences of 'no self' are short lived but very clear when it happens.

Thanks and no words for my gratitude in being my guide!
jomarie7

[JonathanR]

Hi Jomarie,

. Yet something within, or should I say, without me, remains. Yet there is no words to describe it.

Why try to name it?

But I have to admit that in the middle of chaos, I feel lost

Yes. That is tricky. If life is completely full on it doesn't allow much room for reflection. But the important thing is to look when you can, to see that whatever thoughts of being lost may happen a 'self' cannot be found that 'does' this thinking. Even when very busy, is a 'self' experiencing ,'chaos'? Or is stuff just happeming

Can I realy change anything other than maybe my way of perceiving life?

That's completely right. But if circumstances are crazily stressful and something practical can be done to ease that for you a bit, why not?

That is the tiger within me…like in the song ‘The eye of a tiger’ I think it is. Or ‘Your gonna hear me roar’. ‘I’ roar a lot ☺.

Ha ha! Great :-)

The experiences of 'no self' are short lived but very clear when it happens.

Good. That clarity is on your side and it is only a matter of time, looking and seeing this again and again before it cuts through the 'lost' feeling too. 'Lostness' may continue to make an appearance but it'll get seen

. Thanks and no words for my gratitude in being my guide!

AW :-). That's really sweet. Thank you. It's my pleasure and honour.

Jon.

[JonathanR]

Hi Jomarie,

How is it going? I still have a few questions for you if you'd like to continue?

Best wishes,

Jon

[jomarie7]

Hello Jon,

I am doing okay. Thanks. I would definitely like to continue yes. Ready when you are.
Jomarie

[JonathanR]

Hi again Jomarie,

Thought I had lost you there for a moment ;-) Hope youre well?

When I listen to Tony Parsons for example. I can comprehend what he says intellectually. But I have to admit that in the middle of chaos, I feel lost.

Do you still feel like this? I mean, that you comprehend 'no self' intellectually but that you feel lost in the middle of chaos?

If I assume that you do, then who or what is 'lost'? Chaos happens. Look and tell me, was there a 'self' before the chaos started? Will there be one once the chaos ends?

I know that it may seem this way. Chaos seems challenging . But look again at this. When it's all going on and there is a thought and feeling 'I am lost', then that will be the belief of the moment, won't it? That there is a 'me' that can be 'lost'? Where did that self pop up from, to feel lost?

But when you look you don't find a 'self' before the chaos and there isn't one after chaos has settled down.

Can I assume that the sort of chaos you mentioned is experienced as somewhat unpleasant or annoying?. Next time this is going on, notice bodily sensations. Does this feeling lost express its self in terms of bodily sensation, tension somewhere? Often with unpleasant expereinces there can be an impulse to push them away or avoid them, can't there? And then there is a corresponding impression of a 'self' that is suffering. Is a Jomarie 'there', feeling lost in the middle of chaos, or is it simply a sensation-feeling plus a thought about being lost?


Best wishes,

Jon

[jomarie7]

Coucou Jon,

Thought I had lost you there for a moment ;-)

Ehe...a moment, an instant, no space, no time...;).

Wowooo!...so grateful for those inspirering pointers. Now I am going to work on them...As he says so well 'I'LL BE BACK' :)

One
Jomarie

[JonathanR]

Great. I'll stand by.

Jon

[jomarie7]

Here we go,

Do you still feel like this? I mean, that you comprehend 'no self' intellectually but that you feel lost in the middle of chaos?

If I assume that you do, then who or what is 'lost'? Chaos happens. Look and tell me, was there a 'self' before the chaos started? Will there be one once the chaos ends?

Well, if there is no ‘I’ nothing is lost. And since everything is just appearances, it comes and goes naturally and freely. True. There is no self before and after chaos.

*I know that it may seem this way. Chaos seems challenging . But look again at this. When it's all going on and there is a thought and feeling 'I am lost', then that will be the belief of the moment, won't it? That there is a 'me' that can be 'lost'?

Yes. A belief but not reality.

*Where did that self pop up from, to feel lost?

I honestly don’t know where it came from. Some kind of belief that was made up when growing up. I was told that ‘me’ is real and I believed it. It came from nowhere.

But when you look you don't find a 'self' before the chaos and there isn't one after chaos has settled down

True.

Can I assume that the sort of chaos you mentioned is experienced as somewhat unpleasant or annoying?.

Yes it feels that way.

Next time this is going on, notice bodily sensations. Does this feeling lost express its self in terms of bodily sensation, tension somewhere?

Yes.

Often with unpleasant expereinces there can be an impulse to push them away or avoid them, can't there? And then there is a corresponding impression of a 'self' that is suffering.

Definitely.

Is a Jomarie 'there', feeling lost in the middle of chaos, or is it simply a sensation-feeling plus a thought about being lost?

Hum. Interesting. If broken down as it is presented, yes it makes sense. There is a sensation-feeling and then a story comes up about it. Often looking for the cause of the sensation.

Thanks,
Jomarie

[JonathanR]

Hi Jomarie,

Sorry. I have not replied yet but i will do later today.

Best wishes,

Jon

[jomarie7]

All good,

Replies happens or not. And truth IS and all there IS ;)

jo

[JonathanR]

Hi Jomarie,

I have several questions I'd like to ask you now. Here are the first few.

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.


Best wishes,

Jon

[jomarie7]

Hello Jon,

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

So if I look for a separate entity ‘self’, I can not find any. I can see that it is imaginary. And of course there was none ever. Again, imaginary memory does not make it real. 'I' see only the past.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of separate self started somewhere in childhood. It came with language. Or maybe it came at birth. Not sure. How it works? I think overall, there is appearances happening and then a story is made up around the appearances. To make up a story, words are used to describe what is seen. In the story making, the words ‘I’, ‘me’, ‘self’ is used. It appears to make the story personal. But a story is not reality.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels liberating. Even if there is appearances of dramas of all kinds, deep down I know that it is insignificant. There is still a stickiness present but it does not seem to last as long as it used to. There is an understanding that everything is free to come and go already, no matter what appears or does not appear. No physical proof is needed to know that this is true.

I think that the fear that comes up here and there is in realizing the insignificance of it all. And Love allows it all to be.

In the end, I know nothing.

Merry Christmas to you and your family!

Jomarie

[JonathanR]

Hi Jomarie,

So if I look for a separate entity ‘self’, I can not find any. I can see that it is imaginary. And of course there was none ever. Again, imaginary memory does not make it real. 'I' see only the past.

What is the 'I' that sees only the past?

What is seeing the past?

Does a past 'exist'?

It feels liberating. Even if there is appearances of dramas of all kinds, deep down I know that it is insignificant. There is still a stickiness present but it does not seem to last as long as it used to. There is an understanding that everything is free to come and go already, no matter what appears or does not appear. No physical proof is needed to know that this is true.

I think that the fear that comes up here and there is in realizing the insignificance of it all. And Love allows it all to be.

In the end, I know nothing.

That is really beautiful, thank you!

I understand about the fear that you mention around 'insignificance'. But 'insignificance is a thought, an idea about how things are. Not necessarily 'true' or representative of how things really are? The insignificance of what was previoulsy thought to be very significant (ie the 'self') is a big shift. You are so right to say that love allows it all to be :-)

If you are ready I'd like to ask you three more questions?

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

Anything to add?

Merry Christmas to you and your family!

Best wishes,

Jon

[JonathanR]

Hi Jomarie,

I am guessing that you have been busy? Happy New Year (though its ten days old now).

My feeling for a while has been that you are seeing no self. It isn't for me to tell you this but for you to see it. That's why I asked you these six latest questions. At this stage in the guiding process we always ask these questions and then the other guides are invited to take a look at our conversation. Sometimes they come back with some more questions and sometimes not.

For people who have 'seen' no self we do have aftercare group which can be very useful in the first months, when sometimes there can be turbulent thoughts and feelings. There are also other groups that may be of interest. It's up to you whether you wish to make use of these or not but I recommend Aftercare group in particular.

If you are still wanting to go on, please take a look at the final three questions and have a go at answering them.

Thank you
Best wishes,

Jon

[jomarie7]

Hello Jon,

Sorry for the delay,

What is the 'I' that sees only the past?

The ‘I’ is illusion. It is no-thing. Simply made up and totally imaginary. Like a caracter in a film.

Code: Select all

What is seeing the past?

Again, illusion

Does a past 'exist'?

There is no past or futur

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Looking behind the sensation. It felt like something real and solid ‘fanthomably’ disappeared.

Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

The answer is no with a come back of the ‘I’ claiming ownership here and there ;) In my experience, even though there is planning sometimes, I can never know what is going to happen or not. A simple example is when I am driving my car from point A to B, at times I notice that I may think that I am going to turn right and the whole thing ends up turning left without me. It is a surprising event! ☺. And sometimes frustrating if it does not go as planned.

Anything to add?
Nothing to add Jon except a big thank you to you, Jon and LU. Happy new year 2016!

Jomarie