Looking for a very patient guide!

[Badgerbob]

It's actually not a direct Jesus quote, just a cobbled together Christian sentiment I think


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[Tanya-D]

Yes, it was Jesus, wasn't it! Thanks for the correction. :) Oh well, these enlightened beings seem to say similar things, one gets rather confused! Lol.

I guess the self can't be real, in that it's not a permanent feature. It does come and go and is different day to day even. A good sharp bump on the noggin and it can even forget its own name, likes, dislikes, etc. It's really quite a fragile thing.

Great - so where is the doubt now? Is this self 'you' in any way at all?

I was going to say, the only constant is the 'aliveness' sensation, but even that disappears in deep sleep. So I don't know, just life I guess. But then even life disappears at the point of death, so nothing is constant. Rather depressing really..

Yes, you're right. What other words for Aliveness and Life might there be?
Are you this aliveness? Are thoughts seen now as just thoughts arising and passing?

Well done, Paul :)

Catch you soon

T

[Badgerbob]

It's all part of the illusion, man. People say this whole thing is just an illusion really and it's probably true; when you break 'stuff' down, all that's left is pure energy. Same thing with the self I guess, in the sense that that's just an illusion too. In the meantime we just go on living with the 'sense' of a self in a world that seems 'real'. So yes, for the time being, I'm afraid this self is 'me'. But I do doubt it's absolute reality.

Hmmm...other words for Aliveness and Life. How about being, existence, awareness, consciousness perhaps. Where's that thesaurus?


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[Tanya-D]

Lol - you are doing great, man! :)

other words for Aliveness and Life. How about being, existence, awareness, consciousness perhaps. Where's that thesaurus?

Perfect. I asked this because I just wanted you to think about what this actual 'presence' is . . .we all have different words for it and I wanted you to 'know' and 'resonate' with yours.

So yes, for the time being, I'm afraid this self is 'me'.

Where does this sense of self/me live? Can you locate it?
Are you this 'pure energy' that is left once stuff is broken down?

Catch you soon

T

[Badgerbob]

Very hard to pin down, but the sense of self seems to be mainly in my head when thinking/seeing and in my chest when feeling some strong emotion.

Am I ultimately this 'pure energy'? Good question. Yeah, that makes sense I suppose. Me minus programming, memories, thinking, etc must equal pure energy. Not very reassuring to think that all I am is a zap of electricity! Lol. Oh well, better than nothing at all! ️


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[Tanya-D]

the sense of self seems to be mainly in my head when thinking/seeing and in my chest when feeling some strong emotion.

Is this sense, in your head and chest, you? Take a deeper look and tell me what you find. Remember what you have already discovered about what thought and what it really is.
Is any effort necessary to be here you right now? Or is it happening effortlessly.

Me minus programming, memories, thinking, etc must equal pure energy.

So what is left when all things like memories and thinking are taken away?
If you completely throw away thought (just for a moment), notice and write down what is left.

Catch you soon :)

T

[Badgerbob]

I quite honestly don't know if this sense of self is 'me' or not. Probably not, considering what we've looked at so far, but it's the nearest thing I can find of a 'self'. Just a sense. Then again, if there really was a self, how would that feel any different? I find this all very confusing.

There is no effort necessary to be here right now. What does this mean Tanya?

When thoughts, memories, programming are taken away, just being is left. Life. Whatever the hell that is


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[Tanya-D]

Good answers :)

I quite honestly don't know if this sense of self is 'me' or not. Probably not, considering what we've looked at so far, but it's the nearest thing I can find of a 'self'. Just a sense.

OK, how are you investigating the above? Through thought, or simply looking for a self with eyes, ears, touch - D.E. - etc?
What is this 'me' you refer to above?
If this sense isn't 'me', then what is it?.

This stays confusing when we try to think our way through it. I promise you, Paul, no-one got to see through this illusion with their thinking. Thinking is THE thing that is in the way. See above. Piece it together. You have already given me the right answers, but the penny hasn't dropped yet. :)

There is no effort necessary to be here right now. What does this mean Tanya?

What is IT that is constantly here and take no effort at all?

Is this 'self' only found inside a thought, or is it somewhere else?
Does the 'self' decide, chose, or control any aspect of Life? If no, then what is deciding, choosing, or in control?

OK, will you answer ALL these questions, in bold, thoroughly? :) Really sit with all this. Take your time with it. If you need a few days, then just let me know.

You're doing great :)

T

[Badgerbob]

Ok I'll get back to you probably Thursday Tanya. P


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[Tanya-D]

:)

Catch you soon

T

[Badgerbob]

To answer the first couple of questions, I think it might be helpful if I try and explain to you how I go about approaching these kinds of questions and you can show me where I'm going wrong, if you would be so kind.

Firstly, I read the question through a few times and try to intellectually grasp it's gist. Then I'll still my mind as best I can and repeat the question to myself slowly, without thinking about its meaning (rather like a koan). As the questions usually involve looking into the self, I will then sit for a few moments just trying to feel what it's like to be me right now. No thoughts, just feeling and exploring this aliveness. Then I write down whatever I have come up with.

Consciousness is here constantly and takes no effort at all.

The self is only found in a thought; its my mind. My mind is just a stream of thoughts. This is what I identify (rightly or wrongly), as 'me'.


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[Tanya-D]

Firstly, I read the question through a few times and try to intellectually grasp it's gist. Then I'll still my mind as best I can and repeat the question to myself slowly, without thinking about its meaning (rather like a koan).

This is not wrong necessarily, Paul. It's just is NOT Direct Experience. Once comparative thinking occurs, focus has disconnected from the actual experience, right here-right now, (the moment of now) and disappeared into the virtual reality of memories, beliefs, ideas, opinions etc. They are useful for practical reasons, like remembering what colour your car is, or planning for a meeting, or organising an event - but to live within and respond from that perspective is where it all goes horribly wrong for most people. :)

Try this exercise: If you watch TV, or read books, or paint, or listen to music . . .
something that 'you' get lost in . . .notice what is left when this 'you' is absorbed/forgotten due to the activity. Where does the time go? Where does this self go? This is just a sense, a knowing . . .nothing more. Find that. :)

The self is only found in a thought; its my mind. My mind is just a stream of thoughts. This is what I identify (rightly or wrongly), as 'me'.

Good - but there is still identification happening here as in 'My mind'.
Who's mind? Where is this person that claims the mind? What is this mind? Is it really 'you'?

You're doing so well!

T

[Badgerbob]

What was the exercise Tanya? You just kinda trailed off.....

I seen your diagram and like a complete thicko, I don't get it. God, this is frustrating the bejesus oughta me!! There is no space between seeing and thinking. If there is, it must be a fraction of a millisecond. Then thinking kicks in automatically.

And it is 'my' mind; no-one else has any access to it. That's what I'm trying to say, at the moment, my mind and 'me' are one and the same. Everything, but everything happens in the field of the mind, so how could I not identify with it? It's all I know. It's all I've ever known. How do I stop identifying with it? That's what this whole enlightenment/awakening malarkey is about isn't it, dis-identifying with the mind? I just can't seem to do it.

I'm really not doing very well at all Tanya; sorry, I'm completely befuddled


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[Tanya-D]

What was the exercise Tanya? You just kinda trailed off.....

Oh, no she didn't! :)

Try this exercise: If you watch TV, or read books, or paint, or listen to music . . .
something that 'you' get lost in . . .notice what is left when this 'you' is absorbed/forgotten due to the activity. Where does the time go? Where does this self go? This is just a sense, a knowing . . .nothing more. Find that. :)

I am asking you to be aware of what happens when you become engrossed in an activity. Where does this 'self' go? Where does this 'you' go? Does it disappear? If so, then notice what is there - this awareness, this knowing that simple existence is happening.

There is no space between seeing and thinking. If there is, it must be a fraction of a millisecond. Then thinking kicks in automatically.

The image is to point out that seeing and thinking are 'forms' within the movement of
Life and NOT because of it . . .thinking happens AFTER the true nature of Boundless Space. Check it out for yourself :)

Everything, but everything happens in the field of the mind, so how could I not identify with it? It's all I know. It's all I've ever known. How do I stop identifying with it? That's what this whole enlightenment/awakening malarkey is about isn't it, dis-identifying with the mind? I just can't seem to do it.

Everything is not in the field of the personal mind, Paul. This is where words can really trip us up. Some speakers talk about the Universal Mind, Oneness, Self (with a capital S) as this THING that is the beginning, the nothingness that everything arises from. If that is the Mind you are referring to, then you are correct - but I think you are referring to the personal mind of an individual here. So no, everything does not happen in this place. Seeing, hearing, thinking happen AFTER this 'silent space' that you truly are.

Sit with this and check out this inner space that is there without effort, without thought - it is just a sense of here'ness. Is there a personal self here?

It is OK to be frustrated. It is part of the journey. The personal mind will never get this, as explained above, and yes, it has been a tool that you and everyone else on this planet has over-used and over-identified with. If you can't touch it, see it, hear it, smell, it etc, then it is in your imagination! It is that simple :)

To stop identifying with it, you have to become aware of your thinking. Notice when you can witness your thinking, and notice when you have drifted off into the thought-story - which is virtual reality and nothing to do with what it right here-right now. Have you ever had an argument inside your head, and oh boy, you have told that person exactly what you think of them. BUT, they aren't actually there. It has all been in your imagination. This is what you need to be aware of. The difference between what is actually 'there' in front of you, and what it is that is imagined in this personal mind that is being over-identified with.

Honestly Paul. You are doing well. You'll just have to take my word for it. :)
I was exactly the same as you. I over-identified with thought. Always thinking, analysing. People would even comment and say I thought too much. To which 'I' would get offended by because I couldn't understand what they did when they weren't speaking. Then it dawned on me, though persistence, that the thoughts I had were poor imitations of actual experiences from the past - and I was still identifying with them!!? lol. It takes practice to see this, but I know you can do it.

Does this help?

T

[Badgerbob]

Lol I must have missed half of what you have written! This bloody Tapatalk app! In web view it's all there lol. I'm gonna have another read through everything now and answer your questions properly. Sorry bout that. Speak soon. P.


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